11193 What makes an expat want to stay in Italy??

I like the efficiency, customer focus and openness of the big suppliers like ENEL, Telecom Italia, Poste Italia.

It's also just so quick and slick to get anything done here - no need for paper work, just one short phone call and it's sorted.

Nurse quick, my pills.

Ghianda
[URL="http://www.olivopiegato.com"]Tuscany Bed and Breakfast - L'Olivo Piegato, The Crooked Olive[/URL]

Have you seen the state of the UK recently. Even with the bad exchange rate there is no way I am going back there.

I hate the phrase "ex.pat" but I have to say the clue is in the title, I am here firstly because I hate Uk and don't ever want to go back there (even for a visit)
I am always amazed when people say they like London, its grey, smelly,dismal, and over populated with stressed people, how can that be fun?
Italy
Good balanced weather, which makes growing veg/fruit really easy, fresh air, mountain spring water. just makes a happier healthier life.
I work in the orto, and then benefit from the excercise and the food.
But mostly for my kids, the life here is so different, they pick fresh green peppers from the orto and eat them straight from the plant.
It's safe for them to go out in the evening, proper seasons still -hot weather in summer so they can spend a lot of time outside, lots of snow in winter to play in.
Because property (in this region) is very affordable we have lots of land so my 2 boys 13 & 14 have both learned to drive in the fields around our house, so not worried about them going joyriding for the experience,my 14yr old has a driving license and has an "ape" so he has freedom to socialise without having mum as a taxi!
They also have learned how to socialise with adults since living here as there is no babysitting culture here, if you go out to eat it's normal to take kids.
They interact with all ages, they appreciate good food, and are allowed a small glass of wine on occasions.
I think thats a big problem in the uk (them and us, kids and adults live seperate lives) which means teenagers get bored and that may be why there is a lot of problems now with drugs and knives etc.
I am aware that Italy also has problems but in the rural areas like here it's just not happening yet, people still look after each other.
You can park outside the newsagents, leave the engine running, go in for a chat and when you come back the car will still be there and it won't have been clamped.
different world!

Why ExPats..............New Italians sounds better and is more apt in our case

"new Italian" Yes I like that I want to sign up for lifetime membership.

I am a new Italian because I love the country and it’s people and because I could not possibly enjoy the same quality of life had I stayed in England.

If I had to work to support myself here in Italy, I think it would be quite different. But as a place to retire to (all be it an early retirement) Italy is the best.

In fact, where I live it is more like living in a different time than country….a bit like going back to how England was 20/30 years ago, and that’s not a criticism. I prefer the gentler pace of life although it will be nice when reliable broadband finally arrives!:laughs:

[quote=herealready;105809]"new Italian" Yes I like that I want to sign up for lifetime membership.[/quote]

Surely not - sooner or later you will be known as 'Nit'

.

"Ubi bene, ibi patria"
Where you feel good, there is your home
It is my motto and it works.

..I was in Italy for 6 months last year and I sure do miss it. I'm stuck back in the UK in the pits of a recession and everything is 10 times worse here than it ever was before. If I could go and live in Italy I would but the simple fact for me is that life is very expensive and I can't make a living out there. Yes, I could grow veggies, keep hens and farm my olives but in 6 months last year, not counting the money we spent on the house we averaged around £1000 per month just for living expenses, and that's pretty much the same as what we need here not counting the mortgage. Italy in my experience is not cheap and certainly not an easy place to live but it knocks the socks off the UK any day of the week in terms of 'good life' factor, and if there was any possible way for me to go back I would do so without a second thought........

Thank you all of you for your insight. I am afraid to say that not only have I never lived in the UK, I only once visited Birmingham for work! So I will take what you say as being true. I agree that if you can make it and are happy with living in the countryside, planting,picking and eating your foods then this is the place to be. I am from the USA where we all know the economy has hit rock bottom but I do have a feeling of home in my heart for the USA that will never change. Although I appreciate all Italy has to offer, there are certain things that it cannot give me or my children for that matter. Mostly future work opportunities because I do believe in the American Dream, a concept that is completely not understood in Italy.

It used to be Flyingveepixie. When I arrived 7 years ago I was amazed how low the prices were compared to Britain and Germany. Since the Euro the balance has tipped in the other direction and we now stock up when visiting relatives.

As for the ‘goodlife’…. We filter all our water after a friend found that she had more heavy metals in her blood than a medium sized chemical factory. We are looking forward to the new law on labelling for veg so that we can avoid anything that comes from the Salerno area. As they must have read somewhere that Dioxin is actually a type of fertilizer.

Why do I stay? Because I love my job… But I do wonder how much damage to my health I am doing staying here

Mark

Yes it's true what you say Mark and no where is really perfect nowadays. I mean Italy is great in some ways, like having your own land and being able to work it, better weather all year round, less thugs roaming the streets etc, but as you pointed out it can be rather third world - ish in some of it's outlook towards things like pollution, waste disposal, and need I add bureaucracy among others. It also lacks many of the convenience type facilities we have here in the UK and the example I always like to give for this is the bank...I can be in and out of any branch of the Halifax here in about 2 minutes on an average day having completed all of my business, but in Italy I can't even make a deposit if I don't go to my own branch and fill out 3 different forms, and spend about half an hour waiting around....and that's on a day where there isn't a queue !! Still for all that I would still rather be there than here but without a means of earning a few pennies it just isn't possible as growing veggies etc wont put petrol in the car or pay the electricity bill. Shame really.

But I think living here full time, to be happy and appreciate life here you need to get into a different mind frame.Especially in a rural community, there is no rush, the pace of life is different to the UK (thank goodness) I dont want or need to dash about achieving targets anymore. There is the time and the space to savour the moment and the peace and the quiet in the countryside. Priceless.
perhaps I should add for balance that physically I have never worked so hard in my life, all that land , all those olive trees to be harvested, but the stress is just not there anymore.
A

[quote=luciam;105762]I have been doing some of my own research and am interested in learning from both expats and non expats what they think makes an expat want to stay in Italy. I mean after the initial honeymoon phase is over !! I hope to hear from you.Lucia
[url=http://www.living-italy.blogspot.com]Living Italy[/url][/quote]

It seems to me that some people change countries with a view to some kind of lifestyle change or in this case to live some kind of "dream" or whatever.There are also people who decide to change sides/allegencies/their country, to adopt another country as their home/nation (America/uk are full of these) and do not live an"ex-pat" existence. I consider myself in this second category.i wanted to leave the UK from the age of 10.i wanted to live in Italy.i didn't want to live in the UK,After studies i moved to Italy.to a large city.lived in an appartment,got married had a full/ rewarding /successful career with usual stress in Milano and only later on moved into a rural environment.So,all this stuff about "honeymoon" i don't find applies to me..i'm as pissed off as any normal italian is today....

[QUOTE=There are also people who decide to change sides/allegencies/their country, to adopt another country as their home/nation (America/uk are full of these) and do not live an"ex-pat" existence. [/QUOTE]

This would describe me as well. I lived in Italy for 4 1/2 years and my husband over 8, while he was attending veterinary school. Our daughter was born in Pisa and we were blessed with some terrific friends, several of whom were my students from my teaching at the Liceo Scientifico and the U. of Pisa. The kindness of people towards us shall never be forgotten. One of my students, an older doctor at the U. of Pisa, purchased our second-hand furniture from us, ostensibly to furnish his little cabin on the river. We found out years later that he only did so as he knew we needed the money and that he had actually tossed it all later on! Other friends included us in their weekly Sunday family gatherings at their second home in the mountains. A friend from the Liceo made it a point to have us over to her home routinely for leisurely lunches, and the list goes on.

We have now made new friends in Le Marche as well at an agriturismo we have stayed at and they have become almost like family. The friendships we have made in Italy have endured for all of this time, and I cannot say the same about some in the US. While we do have some close relationships, there is not the same feeling in my heart.

We returned to the US 25 years ago and I have been trying ever since to move back. Unfortunately it looks like we will have to wait until we are able to retire as earning a living as a veterinarian is not for the feint-hearted from what friends and colleagues have told us. Since leaving Italy, I have always considered it home and every time we go back I feel that it is where I need to be. I am depressed for weeks after we return to the USA. I have always felt more European than American - perhaps because two of my grandparents came from Poland. Two of my husband's grandparents came from Italy as well, and we are both very comfortable with both the language and culture.

As we live in rural New England, we have quite a bit of land and a somewhat slower pace of life, in fact, the reason we chose this area was that we felt it was the closest we would get to a more European lifestyle, but it really isn't. Yes, our son can go outside and play and ride his bike, etc. We live in a beautiful area where many people have second homes so our reasons arean't the same as some on the Forum. It is kind of difficult to put into words and is more of just how I feel when back in Italy.

We are under no illusions that life is easy in Italy and know that many things are more difficult and frustrating. As we did live there for quite awhile, we will be returning with eyes wide-open.

We've lived in half a dozen countries for professional reasons, Italy by choice. And although I hate to say this, and some of you may prove me wrong, in the 25 years I've been away from Britain, I've always felt that the people who cite hating the country as their main reason for leaving, invariably, in time, end up with negative feelings towards wherever it is they've moved to. In my experience of expats across the world there are those who will make a good job of getting on with life and being happy irrespective of where they are, and vice versa. For if you can't hack it at home, you may find it hard to hack it anywhere.

ps: I'm not sure Italy is a country to come to to escape the recession. For if you talk to your Italian friends, listen to the radio, watch the TV news, read the papers, everyone is just as concerned about the security of their job, price increases, stock exchange falls, etc. as in Britain or the US.

[quote=Violetta;105880]We've lived in half a dozen countries for professional reasons, Italy by choice. And although I hate to say this, and some of you may prove me wrong, in the 25 years I've been away from Britain, I've always felt that the people who cite hating the country as their main reason for leaving, invariably, in time, end up with negative feelings towards wherever it is they've moved to. In my experience of expats across the world there are those who will make a good job of getting on with life and being happy irrespective of where they are, and vice versa. For if you can't hack it at home, you may find it hard to hack it anywhere.[/quote]

Violetta,

I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion as I never said or implied hating the USA, far from it. It certainly has many good attributes and has provided us with lots of opportunity, a good living and a safe place to raise our children. However, Italy is where we want to live by choice and has been for many years.It's a big world out there and there are many wonderful places in which to live. Life is too short to always wonder what if... and for those of us who have the passion and desire to live elsewhere it would be a shame to not follow that.

We never wanted to leave Italy in the first place and only did so as there were better work prospects in the USA and because my husband's father was ill and he wanted to spend more time with him and his family as he had been away for so long. We have longed to be back in Italy since then and I will not be one who lives to regret what I did not do during my lifetime.

Hi

I have just been re-reading Alain de Botton's, soft philosophy 'The Art of Travel' and I wonder how many of us have our perceptions shaped re: our new life here as much to do with moving from a large town or city to the countryside as moving to a new country, in this case Italy.

He discusses William Wordsworth's view: "The poet accused cities of fostering a family of life-destroying emotions: anxiety about our position in the social hierarchy, envy at the success of others, pride and a desire to shine in the eyes of strangers. City-dwellers had no perspective, he alleged; they were in thrall to what was spoken of in the street or at the dinner table. However well provided for, they had a relentless desire for new things, which they did not genuinely lack and on which happiness did not depend. And in this crowded, anxious sphere, it seemed harder than on an isolated homestead to begin sincere relationships with others.... men lived even as next-door neighbours, as we say, yet still strangers and knowing not each other's names.'

Wordsworth saw value in being close to nature, (living in the countryside).Nature, with its complexity and vastness would compel us to "seek out in life and in each other ' What'er there is desirable and good'. Could be translated as enjoy the simple pleasures, joys in life.

Living here in the countryside brings a slower way of life, a respect for the seasons and an understanding of just how insignificant we are in the great scheme of things. My OH and I are happier and healthier than we would be in the UK and we have time to 'just be!'

[quote=Lisa C.;105881]Violetta,

I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion as I never said or implied hating the USA, far from it. It certainly has many good attributes and has provided us with lots of opportunity, a good living and a safe place to raise our children. .[/quote]

Heavens, no, nothing personal, Lisa, I would never dream of being so personally offensive. It's just I have lived abroad as a British expat for a long time now, for much of that time living within the expatriate community and have met many, many Brits abroad (Americans too). And I've often noticed that those who arrive fresh from England slagging off everything they left behind, invariably arriving in a country they know very little about, quickly change their tune and start directing their negative energy at where they live now. When I lived in France, for instance, you'd meet Brits saying they'd left because of Thatcher or the Unions or the weather or the whatever. But give them five minutes of French bureaucracy or a long wet winter in their damp farmhouse and it would be a different story. Guaranteed.
You have to be realistic in life, there is no utopia. And a positive attitude is invaluable, most especially if you are living in a foreign country where you have additional problems (language, culture, etc) to those you knew at home.

I [I][U]chose[/U][/I] to live here… I was lucky because I had a ‘trial run’ of almost 10 years before the decision to retire here.

Yes, I do have some Italian family here, which is obviously very nice from a personal point of view, but [I]they[/I] [U]ALL[/U] warned me not to move to the area I wanted to live (the Valtellina). They warned me that the ‘montanare’ (mountain people) were a very ‘closed’ lot and [I][U]did not accept incomers at all.[/U][/I]

Yet I have never found that to be the case. But then I put myself out to be pleasant even with the most taciturn villager….and there have been a few of them – believe me. But with patience, civility and a lot of respect – plus, of course – knowing the language, I can honestly say that I now fit in and am accepted as “l’inglesina che abita nella casa di Nello!“ - [I]the little (LOL) English lady who lives in Nello’s house.[/I] (‘Ornello was the youngest brother (51yo) of the family who had owned my house for several centuries – he dropped dead in the village, from drink, one morning at 9.15am and so was somewhat notorious…)!

But 'fitting in', while never easy - can ALWAYS be rewarding. But you have to accept Italy ‘warts and all’. It’s fine to have a moan about what doesn’t work – everybody does – including Italians – but it must [I]never[/I], [U]ever,[/U] consume your ability to accept it for what it is.

Just think of a few of the ‘dafter’ advantages (plus a couple of serious ones) and you’ll see what I mean!

I don't have to wait days to see my local GP. I just arrive and wait my turn.
I don't have to book an appointment to have my hair done. I just turn up and wait my turn.
I don't have to pay for a load of fat etc. on the meat I buy. It is trimmed of waste before it is weighed.
In most supermarkets I can choose my own fruit and vegetables. They're not all pre-packed and I'm not served with 'rubbish' from the back of the counter.
I can get fresh baked bread (sometimes twice a day) from local bakers who bake on the premises!
I can still find service stations where they actually 'serve you with your fuel', and will wash your windscreen for you (and not at a traffic light).
My windows in the house all open 'inwards', so no more window cleaners bills.
Little, or no crime in the village. Everything ‘isn’t’ screwed down!
New cars cost a third less here than in the UK (not that I'm in the market for one...)
I don’t have to pay ‘council tax’ anymore. (don’t think that will last for long though. I might have to go back to paying €162 per year again!)
I can enjoy my twice monthly afternoons at the Old Folks Circle, singing, playing tombola and cards – but that’s risky – some old ladies cheat and win all your tiddleywinks!

What’s NOT to enjoy!

We've all - me included - chosen to live now (or at some time in the future) in this beautiful country - 'warts and all'. But we must have had some pretty good reasons for making this life altering choice. 'Cos if you didn't, then what the heck are you doing here?

I agree .....
My 1st visit to the docs
i was surprised about the waiting room system in my Italian doctors.. and frustrated, when i went in I rushed what I had to say trying not to waste his precious time ( well trained by my English surgery) he sat me down told me to relax and start from the beginning.

I will have that care and attention anyday.

The hairdresser is a 5th of English prices and far more fun.

I can budget easier hear and there is certainly less waste, i can buy a little of what we need.

My daughter always gets a slice of pizza bread to keep her happy in the shops, the man in the wine shop gives my girls lollipops ( not because I am his best customer either:winki::winki:)

Maybe I am in the "honey moon period" but I love it and if the Italians will have us I will stay here forever.

We wanted to retire here when we are of that age,
we are late 30's
WHY WAIT?
Never looked back I have sooooo many reasons why I dont look back:smile::smile:

I'm sure all of this depends where you are in Italy. I've heard that people who live down in sunny Calabria suffer alot of crime, robberies etc. It's a bit third world down there I hear. I was in Naples in September staying with a friends mother. She leaves up the road to Sorrento, Positano, Amalfi etc which are wonderful and popular with many English people. However although she has a very nice flat, the area she lived in was poor, dirty, overcrowded, all the shopkeepers had a look of suspicion, aggression and fear about them - there is a huge unemployment problem. The pizza wasn't great either, and that's where pizza comes from! It was bit scary - Italy is definitely not perfect.

I thought I would just throw this into the discussion :smile:

I can be bothered springing to the defence of Naples yet again.
Perhaps I'm mellowing with age, but to be honest - it [I]is[/I] a sh!thole at the moment anyway. :wideeyed:

[quote=debswad;106075]
I agree .....
We wanted to retire here when we are of that age,
we are late 30's
WHY WAIT?
Never looked back I have sooooo many reasons why I dont look back:smile::smile:[/quote]
SNAP! Minus the kids our situation sounds similar. We came out here after my mother in law died suddenly at the age of 65 and we realised that our dreams of retiring abroad may not get chance to come to fruition.
As Debswad says it is easier to budget & I can pop into town on a daily basis to get what I need
The main thing for me though is that I now work to live rather than living to work- I ahave gone back to doing a job I live (dance teacher) and I have more friends than I had in the UK because I have time to see them. Although by moving to a more rural location in the UK would possibly have given me the 3rd I would still have to work a lot more in the UK than I do here just to cover the cost of living (and this I DO know as our choice when moving was Italy or back to Yorkshire).
We do seem to have done things the other way round though in that we had no honeymoon period- the first 18 months were hell and only our stubborn pride stopped us from going back to the UK for good. Now after 3 years I really consider Italy to be my home and often can't believe I'm lucky enough to be here- when people ask me if I like living here the answer is that I like it about 90% of the time which is at least 50% more than I enjoyed living in the UK and I foresee being here for a long time-only last night a friend & I were discussing (as both of us have longevity running in the family) how we plan on being 90 year old "inglesi anziane" in the local casa riposo!
On a minus point though unlike Debswad I am not brave enough to go the hairdressers here. After 3 visits to different places I cannot take the butchery!! After 1 visit I went back to the UK and my friends husband asked me if my hair cut was an Olympic Special (itb was during the Torino games) and UK hairdresser I wnet to said it was the worst cut she'd ever seen so I'm afraid I haven't ventured back since:wideeyed:

Do keep trying to find the right hairdresser in Le Marche for you. Just like the UK there are good and bad ones. There is a terrific hairdresser for example in a hidden away place near Giulia Nova on the Abruzzo coast but only locals know that she is there. I was so reluctant to give up the guy who cut my short hair for 20 years but eventually found a woman here who can cut. Many English women of a certain age still want a modern cut and because this is Umbria, at a price, they have their hair cut by a man who is ex Vidal Sasoon...there's posh!

That's one of the things I would miss if I lived in Italy. Vidal Sssoon. I have had my hair cut at their school here for the last 20 years. It's always beautifully cut and costs £10. Good to hear Noble about your guy though. Thank you

Helen you could try a new guy I have been to in Porto Sant Elpidio , good cutter good ideas, says hairdressing is his passion!!!
Called Massimo Vita, via mazzini 91, tel 0734 902866, modern new salon, every comfort, sweet youngish guy.(well youngish to me!)
A

[quote=HelenMW;106169]On a minus point though unlike Debswad I am not brave enough to go the hairdressers here. After 3 visits to different places I cannot take the butchery!! /quote]

Here is my secret tip. Go to Maria Rita in Comunanza. She is the last shop on left on the way out of Comunanza on the road to Montefalcone. She goes every year either to London or Barcelona to do refresher courses from Vidal Sassoon amongst others. She is very good at cutting. I can't comment on colouring as I don't colour my hair.

She did my hair for my wedding and was fantastic.

I've found it really helps if you take a photo of what you are after as my Italian seems to desert me in the hairdressers for some reason. Nerves maybe. I find her cutting excellent although I have to watch she doesn't cut too much off but then I always have that problem with hairdressers as I have very curly hair which is straight when wet so they just seem to forget it is going to shrink by about 1/2 when dry!

Tell her Penelope sent you. I might get a discount:winki: