11227 emergencey phone numbers Italy

Thanks Adriatica
Thats very helpful , and have printed it out......as you seem to be in the know.....whats the number for the grumpy old in laws help line....cheers

sorry .. have not managed to find that... solution i think is pretty much moving house with no forwarding address and no land line... they hate paying mobile phone rates ... well at least that's what i heard

[quote=adriatica;106227]sorry .. have not managed to find that... solution i think is pretty much moving house with no forwarding address and no land line... they hate paying mobile phone rates ... well at least that's what i heard[/quote]

and you were doing so well.....this one lives with us, still thinks that because the shops are shut for 2 days that we need 50 pints of milk, 25 loaves of bread,,,,you get the picture LOL

Actually Adriatica, your post opens up a few questions for me - if you don't mind this going off topic in a related type of way.

You list the numbers for emergenza infanzia, antiviolenza donna and the Associazione contro la pedofilia - what I would like to know more about is, if in Italy there are the same type of (often hysterical) concerns that arise in the UK when a pedophile moves "into the area".

I've no knowledge of this happening near me here in the UK and certainly (probably stupidly) never given it any real thought while in Italy. Italy does probably give me a false sense of security in regards to my daughters safety - where I am far more relaxed and give her a lot more unsupervised freedom when we are there. There is always someones Nonna or Zia close by to keep her beady eye on things while she plays with the other kids and I've always been very happy with that arrangement, but I'm wondering how much of a problem this type of thing is in Italy - and how do the local population react when discovering that someone has done something like this to a child - and how they deal with a known pedophile moving into their back yard?

I'd also like to explore more about the isssue surrounding domestic abuse. How is spousal battery viewed in Italy these days?

It used to be that the whole neighbourhood got involved if a bloke battered his wife - she would run up and down the street in her pyjamas screaming for help - neighbours would come out to see what was going on - the women would comfort the wife, blot her tears and make coffee while agreeing what a brute her husband was - the men would go and give the husband a poke in the ribs and a few smacks in the gob for being such an arsehole and then everyone would go to sleep.

In the morning the husband would leave extra early for work with his head hung low in shame - hoping that no one would see him - which we all did as we knew the routine and were waiting for him to go past so we could tut and wag our fingers - then, usually around lunchtime, the wife would hang out the washing sporting a pair of designer sunglasses and a new piece of jewellery - which was admired by the other women. The vast majority of women had at least one piece of this "I'm sorry I battered you" trophy jewellery from their husbands - some had many - each one more expensive than the last.

Granted, I've put a tongue in cheek slant on how things were done in the "good old days" - I was only a kid and saw it more as surreal entertainment that ensured we were able to stay up way past midnight as Mamma and Zia comforted whichever woman had been battered, but how is this problem handled now - in modern day Italy?

[quote=deborahandricky;106231]and you were doing so well.....this one lives with us, still thinks that because the shops are shut for 2 days that we need 50 pints of milk, 25 loaves of bread,,,,you get the picture LOL[/quote]

You know Italians Ricky. When they say the shop is closed for two days there is no guarantee it's just for two days!!! lol

Do you really have to destroy every single thread you ever enter Sally? Go and post on your stupid Advent Calendar thread and allow some of us a bit of peace and a chance to have some kind of sensible discussion for once. You have no idea what goes on in Italy - you never will - you post just to see your name up in lights. :mad:

[quote=juliancoll;106240]Do you really have to destroy every single thread you ever enter Sally? Go and post on your stupid Advent Calendar thread and allow some of us a bit of peace and a chance to have some kind of sensible discussion for once. You have no idea what goes on in Italy - you never will - you post just to see your name up in lights. :mad:[/quote]

Julian, I can recommend the ignore button. Since employing this niffty bit of forum software I am able to read threads, which no longer show the one line irrelevant asides.

It makes a real improvement to my enjoyment of the forum and I am convinced that in time those who only post to try and provoke a reaction will finally get bored and give up…but even if they don’t…I can’t see it anyway.
:laughs:

Juliancoll,

there has been a paedofilia court case going on here in Amandola. Three young Macedonian girls (8, 14 & 16) were abused by a group of older men here, alledgedly with the collusion of their family, over a long period of time.

Their uncle has been convicted and sentenced to 8 years and 4 months and there are 7 Indian males and 2 Italian males also being prosecuted.

It is not discussed. A fiend of mine who has a child at school here, tried to bring the subject up with one of the parents and was firmly rebuffed. It has been a bigger scandal because at least one of the Italian men is very well known here.

You can see some articles on our town website but they are a little old: [url=http://www.amandola.com/?s=pedofilo]Amandola.com | Il notiziario di Amandola. Portale informativo della città di Amandola[/url] (in case anyone thinks I have an active imagination).

to give my take on your question... and this is obviously a personal view ... there is very little done here in a pro active way to help people that are being abused... lots of reaction when highlighted cases do come up and some aggressive tv... porta porta tends to get involved and lots of pious words and paid for criminal psychologists mutter words of wisdom.... however its a bit like watching a sermon from the pulpit... and the people run out the same old pious concerns

i do believe that in practice there is a safer environment for children to be freer in Italian life... however institutional safety is basically non existent and all cases seem to be shut down quickly... its obvious why but really its going to create more arguments if my theory was said out loud... but everyone here knows there are certain elements even above politicians that are exempt from prosecution....

much of the freedom for children is i believe developed because they are much more adult aware...in the sense that they spend lots of time involved with adult type activities ... ie children eat out with their parents... children's parties generally involve parents as well... from village to city... streets here are full and lively with all generations until late at night.... the other point is that for what ever reason they do seem to be more mature... most probably because of this freedom.. .. so maybe its a sort of roundabout that the freedom brings maturity and that maturity brings safety...

much of the child abuse investigative work is done on Internet crime... and tracing those people here that use foreign sites and travel to the far east etc etc.... what happens to them then is not well reported...just the initial numbers of another ring and how many involved... makes headline news each time

i think much of what you say is true in the watching sense... neighbours here still poke their noses very much into other peoples business and their is a good grapevine of local knowledge on what is happening and who is doing it.... however much is filled with spite and revenge so has to be filtered .... but it is a sort of protective level

as far as women are concerned i think the macho male still exists very much here and its obvious that they exercise a degree of physical control over partners... this would be more obvious in south rather than north communities... where economic differences make women much more part of working life/wage earning type people that soon tend to develop personal power because of their worth in that sense..... however what is almost awe inspiring is the amount of family murders here... where not only wives but children as well are slaughtered by the husband/father due to being deserted or financially unable to cope due to loss of a job... again this to me seems to follow on the lines that the Italian male still regards himself as the breadwinner and supporter of the family... and the shame attached to not being in that role seems to lead to acts beyond all reason....

what is true here and is due to large amounts of immigrants in certain areas is that women do not feel as safe as they used to... and that also includes young girls ...if they are out alone at night... lots of cases are reported of street violence.... but i would say that this is much as anywhere a sort of soft target reporting when you do not want to look closer to home...

figures on violence against females here inside the family are huge...so childhood views like you say are often colored by the cocoon of safety we all felt at a young age... well most of us... often more like theatre than real life... but reporting generally aims at foreign acts of violence on women to avoid the truth of what is the real problem here although there are many women that campaign... but with little power

what more can i say... not being an italian woman it would be hard to see inside their minds... i know female neighbours form our old village who regularly got and get battered by drunk husbands and these are eighty year olds... it seems to be accepted... i often found it strange because these same women are the ones that go out and get the wood in, hoe the fields and fetch and carry ...and physically they could have turned round and most probably flattened their other halves who seem to spend most of their lives standing aside and saying how to do things...whilst waiting for their next meal before heading down to the cantina to fill up on less than wonderful wine once more...

one thing that is well reported here is the bullying and abuse by children on other children... they are stupid enough to film these acts of violence and is a major problem in schools here... as in most cases directed at children that either do not fit in because of appearance or mental capability... reported with total surprise that the perpetrators come from good well off families... as if violence is the preserve of the poor..... there is pretty well nothing done at the school at that level.... neither support for victims or awareness programs...

ok all the above is pretty depressing... but whats more depressing...living in a world where you have fear of letting you child out because you have been brainwashed into believing bad things will happen or even have them taken away because you are not acting as a supervising parent... or living in a place where the freedom to choose is still available and you are secure enough to allow your child freedom...

however as an Italian speaker and a woman i think you could easily pick one of the support centres for women and get a much better view on that problem than i can give you am sure they would be willing to give a better perspective on things and maybe answer your own posting by writing about it here...

i do know that there are several young ministers in this government that are female and that are bringing this up as an issue that needs sorting out...

[quote=adriatica;106273]to give my take on your question... and this is obviously a personal view ... there is very little done here in a pro active way to help people that are being abused... lots of reaction when highlighted cases do come up and some aggressive tv... porta porta tends to get involved and lots of pious words and paid for criminal psychologists mutter words of wisdom.... however its a bit like watching a sermon from the pulpit... and the people run out the same old pious concerns [/quote]

Isn't that much like elsewhere though? Take the "Baby P" case here in the UK recently - poor little mite battered continuously for all of his 18 months - Social Services involved since the beginning - missed the danger signs and ended up with yet another statistic because the system "failed". Did the system fail because it was inadequate - or did it fail because it was too complicated to be cohesive due to the many departments and managers from different sections involved to ensure that no one has to take responsibilty until something "goes wrong" - when the top dog takes the brunt.

I feel that if each case worker was properly trained and supported enough to take personal responsibilty for each family they work with, we may see less "Baby P" stories in the end. This "passing the buck" from ground workers to superiors who have never even visited the family should be rethought.

[quote=adriatica;106273]i do believe that in practice there is a safer environment for children to be freer in Italian life... however institutional safety is basically non existent and all cases seem to be shut down quickly... its obvious why but really its going to create more arguments if my theory was said out loud... but everyone here knows there are certain elements even above politicians that are exempt from prosecution.. [/quote]

I agree that in practice there does seem to be a feeling of a "safer" environment in Italy for kids to have more freedom, but I'm not sure I understand what your theory is - and I don't want to assume - so spit it out - you wont get any argument from me if it's sound.

[quote=adriatica;106273]much of the freedom for children is i believe developed because they are much more adult aware...in the sense that they spend lots of time involved with adult type activities ... ie children eat out with their parents... children's parties generally involve parents as well... from village to city... streets here are full and lively with all generations until late at night.... the other point is that for what ever reason they do seem to be more mature... most probably because of this freedom.. .. so maybe its a sort of roundabout that the freedom brings maturity and that maturity brings safety. Much of the child abuse investigative work is done on Internet crime... and tracing those people here that use foreign sites and travel to the far east etc etc.... what happens to them then is not well reported...just the initial numbers of another ring and how many involved... makes headline news each time ...[/quote]

Again - much the same here - internet pedo rings busted and much fuss made about catching people involved with great emphasis placed on how many hundreds of thousands of images are found on their computers, as if that should perhaps somehow make them more or less guilty depending on the amount found - Gary Glitter types well exposed - then forgotten about - until the next time.

[quote=adriatica;106273]i think much of what you say is true in the watching sense... neighbours here still poke their noses very much into other peoples business and their is a good grapevine of local knowledge on what is happening and who is doing it.... however much is filled with spite and revenge so has to be filtered .... but it is a sort of protective level. [/quote]

Don't you agree that even though a certain amount is filled with spite, revenge, envy etc., that it is very well understood by Italians in general that this is part of the local gossip and Chinese whispers and therefore, Italians have learnt to use their inbuilt gossip detectors - something that Immigrants into Italian society have yet to fully understand and then, spend years fine tuning?

[quote=adriatica;106273]as far as women are concerned i think the macho male still exists very much here and its obvious that they exercise a degree of physical control over partners... this would be more obvious in south rather than north communities... where economic differences make women much more part of working life/wage earning type people that soon tend to develop personal power because of their worth in that sense..... however what is almost awe inspiring is the amount of family murders here... where not only wives but children as well are slaughtered by the husband/father due to being deserted or financially unable to cope due to loss of a job... again this to me seems to follow on the lines that the Italian male still regards himself as the breadwinner and supporter of the family... and the shame attached to not being in that role seems to lead to acts beyond all reason.

what is true here and is due to large amounts of immigrants in certain areas is that women do not feel as safe as they used to... and that also includes young girls ...if they are out alone at night... lots of cases are reported of street violence.... but i would say that this is much as anywhere a sort of soft target reporting when you do not want to look closer to home...

figures on violence against females here inside the family are huge...so childhood views like you say are often colored by the cocoon of safety we all felt at a young age... well most of us... often more like theatre than real life... but reporting generally aims at foreign acts of violence on women to avoid the truth of what is the real problem here although there are many women that campaign... but with little power.

what more can i say... not being an italian woman it would be hard to see inside their minds... i know female neighbours form our old village who regularly got and get battered by drunk husbands and these are eighty year olds... it seems to be accepted... i often found it strange because these same women are the ones that go out and get the wood in, hoe the fields and fetch and carry ...and physically they could have turned round and most probably flattened their other halves who seem to spend most of their lives standing aside and saying how to do things...whilst waiting for their next meal before heading down to the cantina to fill up on less than wonderful wine once more...[/quote]

Agreed this is probably far more prevelent in the South, but I'm sure the things have only changed relatively recently in the North. I've often wondered how women, especailly in rural areas have tolerated the (ab)use they have suffered and wondered why they have allowed themselves to be used as sometimes nothing more than donkeys and packhorses.

Another memory springs to mind, of one of my uncles lording it over his long suffering wife - although as far as I know she was not "battered" she certainly was abused mentally - told she would amount to nothing without him - hardly ever appreciated - expected to wait on him hand and foot, so much so that he would sit watching TV while she swept up the ash from his cigarettes and the pistachio shells he dropped on the floor. Needless to say - he was not one of my favourite relatives and we had many an argument when I was in my late teens/early twenties. I loved it when he blustered, went bright red in the face and nearly had a coronary when I argued with him. I don't think he could ever quite believe that a young woman had the nerve to disagree with him. Mamma always congratulated me afterwards, especially if I made him look stupid - which was quite easy. His wife always did that wringing of hands in despair, along with crying into her pinny and "supported" Zio by telling me not to be so disrespectful to him - but I always saw the little wink she gave me. I think she hated him. She had no choice but to stay after so many years - or at least she believed she had no choice - afterall, what would the neighbours say about the family if she left?

What I found so amazing was that their son and daughter (my cousins) so easily accepted the verbal abuse dished out by their father towards their mother as "normal" - they also seemed to use their Nonna as almost a slave. Nonna was almost 90 years old and she cooked and cleaned, washed all the clothes by hand in one of those old washtub things (I kid you not) and was almost totally ignored by Zio apart from the odd grunt in her direction now and again (I don't know if he behaved like this because Nonna was his wifes mother rather than his own.) The funny thing was that this Zio was a coward - really - if you stood up to him, he backed down eventually, became as meek as a lamb and behaved himself for weeks.

At the time I just thought it was only "our family" that behaved in this terrible way towards elders - but it wasn't - it really was widespread. I recently saw my cousin after many years and he has turned out just like his father - a bit of a pig - I pity his wife - she looks constantly worried and the lines are now furrowed far deeper than they should be for a woman of her age. The strange thing about all this is that these types of men are very rarely (if ever) disrespectful in any way towards women outside the immediate family, it is as if they publically place women on a pedestal and yet, feel they have the right to abuse what they consider to be "their property" behind closed doors.

I still see this type of behaviour - even recently, in the village where I ended up renting. I agree that (a few of) the older generation seem to abuse their wives - some of the women have that same "worried" look - you get to recognise it after a while. You're also correct that should they choose to do so, some of the women could probably knock their husbands blocks off quite easily - they are far fitter and stronger than their husbands, Perhaps revenge comes in outliving the old swines - for without exception the men seem to die a good few years before their wives do and the women do seem far happier as widows than they ever were as wives!

A conversation with one elderly neighbour made me laugh - she told me how her husband had always been a womaniser - drank every night - kept her short of money and generally made her life a misery, how he was "un uomo di merda!" - then - right at the end of telling me about all the terrible things he had done throughout their married life, she sighed and said " Ah.. era l'amore della mia vita.. mi mancano le nostre conversazione inutili!"

What can anyone say to that?

[quote=adriatica;106273]one thing that is well reported here is the bullying and abuse by children on other children... they are stupid enough to film these acts of violence and is a major problem in schools here... as in most cases directed at children that either do not fit in because of appearance or mental capability... reported with total surprise that the perpetrators come from good well off families... as if violence is the preserve of the poor..... there is pretty well nothing done at the school at that level.... neither support for victims or awareness programs...

ok all the above is pretty depressing... but whats more depressing...living in a world where you have fear of letting you child out because you have been brainwashed into believing bad things will happen or even have them taken away because you are not acting as a supervising parent... or living in a place where the freedom to choose is still available and you are secure enough to allow your child freedom...

however as an Italian speaker and a woman i think you could easily pick one of the support centres for women and get a much better view on that problem than i can give you am sure they would be willing to give a better perspective on things and maybe answer your own posting by writing about it here...

i do know that there are several young ministers in this government that are female and that are bringing this up as an issue that needs sorting out...[/quote]

Obviously, it's almost Christmas and so, I don't have the time at the moment to get deeper into this subject by exploring the views presented by any of the womens support centres - but I will delve further after the holidays and report back anything of significance.

Meanwhile, I'm off to cart the turkey in from the cantina after digging in the orto for the spuds - which I will endeavour to roast in goose fat - alongside the parsnips grown from seed - all the while my abusive non existant husband will crack the whip, shout and threaten me with the iron rod I made for my own back for being late with his breakfast, lunch and dinner as I make a few international hand gestures behind his back - and hand him the Hoover! :bigergrin:

Buon Natale.

All the problems mentioned have no boundaries. They happen in Italy, Spain, France, the UK.... Proportions or percentages may vary according to socio-economic levels, although wife-battering and paedophilia are present amongst the upper classes as well as those at the bottom of the scale. Possibly we know more about all this nowadays than a few years ago, but I am not certain about the efficacity of methods used to combat these problems. Oh yes, they immediately send a team of psychologists.... and I wonder whether they are of any use.... or not.
Anyway, it is a terrible subject to discuss on Christmas Eve, so perhaps we should all follow jc's example, get the turkey (or the capone) ready and think positive.
Wishing you all a Buon Natale, love and happiness