11488 Car Tavel to Italy

We've done overnight ferry from Hull to Zeebrugge, then through France (then Switzerland but only if you are not bringing stuff into Italy because they are not in the EU - otherwise stay in France & go through the Mont Blanc tunnel). You'll only need one overnight stop to Montegiorgio unless you are driving [B]very[/B] slowly.

Another tip is that lorries aren't allowed on the roads at weekends on the continent so go then. It makes the journey much more pleasant.

We found the traffic in Holland terrible so wouldn't go that way again, hence going via France where the roads are very quiet even if it is slightly longer. Last time we tried it through Germany we had terrible snow and loads of traffic so it was a stressful drive. We swore we'd never go through Holland or Germany again. Having said that I'm sure you'll find others who swear by that route!

I have sent you a pm Jan

Sibillini's suggestion of Hull/Zeebrugge is very good - as mentioned, it saves an overnight stay, (and saves driving in Britain) and if you can use this route on a Saturday night it makes for a very fast run. I wouldn't use France though - Belgium's roads are fine, and free, to Luxembourg, a bit of France, Switz and then into Italy.

Third the idea of the overnight crossing. Seemed worthwhile to us last year; couldn't believe how quickly we arrived home the next day rather than exhausting ourselves on the M1 or A1.

Charles Philips is spot on.

We took his advice last October.

Hull Zeebrugge ferry is overnight. Either buffet dinner or more expensive A la Carte.
Buffet breakfast. Clean cabin, if small.

Took free Belgian Motorway to Luxembourg - easy.
Free French motorway, then Normal road (scenic) toColmar for overnight (Stopped three nights in fact and enjoyed a break in the Alsace wine villages)
Motorway - turn left at Mulhouse junction, into Germany, then south into Switzerland - no tolls.
(You need to look up this thread - someone always comes along and finds it for you! - it gives details of this route.)
Motorway through Swtzerland - you need a carnet (got mine on line - google swiss motorway pass) cost about 25euro.
You can choose the St Gotthard tunnel or Pass. We chose the Pass. Into Italy at Chiasso, near Como.
Italian motorway to Milan and onward.
We were staying at Iseo, and arrived mid afternoon, with no fuss.
You may need a further overnight stop between here and Le Marche.

(PS belated thanks to CP)

This is where I got the Swiss Pass

[url=http://www.switzerlandtravelcentre.co.uk/vignette.html?gclid=CNHe5-bFopgCFVSK3godQhrV0Q]Switzerland Travel Centre.co.uk | Swiss Travel Passes[/url]

Came by return

Any recommendations for avoiding Switzerland from Zeebrugge to Amandola?

We'll be bringing new bikes back so can't got through Switzerland or we'll have to pay duty/tax.

[quote=Penny;108917]Any recommendations for avoiding Switzerland from Zeebrugge to Amandola?
[/quote]

I haven't done this route for ages, but have a look at Hull Rotterdam, then Holland and Germany, Austria and in through the Brennero. It was ghastly twenty years ago, but I expect they have finished the motorways in Germany by now! (For me, anything involving French roads is a no-no unless strictly necessary).

(btw apologies for calling you Sibillini, Penny!)

Not sure where this "if you are bringing stuff avoid Switzerland" idea came form. We have traveled twice via Switzerland with the car (a Volvo V70 estate plus top box) VERY heavily laden (in the summer we left the kids to fly with my parents so we could fit more stuff in) - bedding, lights, kitchenware, you name it (Adrian Brown from the forum can vouch for it as he very kindly stored it at his house for a few days while ours was getting the windows finished) and we had no problem coming through Switzerland - only checks at the border seemed to be whether you have the Swiss motorway ticket (which works out much cheaper than french tolls and no extra charge for Alpine Tunnels). Swiss motorway service stations are much better than French or Italian ones.

We have done North Cheshire to Monte San Martino (near Amandola) leaving at 7am and arriving 10pm the next day (includes stopping for dinner as we had no food in) - P&O Dover to Calais, across towards Stasbourg (v quiet), one stop each way in Germany near the Rhine (we found a great hotel in Neuenburg am Rhiene which was inexpensive and had a very nice restaurant) - yes they are long days but it is do-able (and if you have lots of stuff the less time the car is unoccupied the better) and saves a night's accommodation. Worst bit is the drive through Northern Italy which is always busier than France, Switzerland or Germany. Would be an easy drive if you do two stops.

Chris

I agree with Neil T and Charles Phillips - we live in Yorkshire and once a year we drive to Lunigiana. We go on the ferry from Hull/Rotterdam and go down through the Luxembourg etc to Colmar for the night and then through Switzerland (although I know you want to avoid this) . We reckon it's a 7 hour drove each day excluding stops) and just at a steady pace. We usually get to Lunigiana about 6pm after stopping for lunch on Lake Como.

Unfortunately, if you bring stuff in through Switzerland that is exempt from VAT (our bikes) you are effectively importing them to Switzerland and are liable to paying the VAT equivalent there. We have been stopped at the Swiss border, where they unloaded the car and wanted receipts for everything. We also have some friends who decided to buy some "cheap" radiators in Germany and also got stopped and had to pay duty on the "cheap" radiators. Guess what - they weren't so cheap after that!

Switzerland is not in the EU.

Penny
I do realise Switzerland is not in the EU but if you look at the Swiss customs website ([url=http://www.ezv.admin.ch/zollinfo_privat/zu_beachten/02179/index.html?lang=en]Transit[/url]) goods in transit (below 5000CHF - nearly €3500) can be freely transited through Switzerland; for goods in excess of this, a deposit can be paid and then reclaimed when you leave the county. Most people will not be transiting with goods in excess of this amount (don't forget that the value for customs of used clothes etc is considerably less the new price).

They also have guidance on the vignettes [url=http://www.ezv.admin.ch/zollinfo_privat/informationen/00421/01659/index.html?lang=en]Motorway tax sticker[/url]

Chris

Thanks for the info Chris. That is useful for the future.

On this trip however, we are bringing goods worth more than 5000CHF and they aren't for personal use. They are for our business. Not even we could claim that 10 bikes are for personal use :bigergrin: unless we invented a LOT of children. My experience is that the Swiss border guards do not have the best sense of humour so it's just easier to avoid them!

[quote=Charles Phillips;108933]I haven't done this route for ages, but have a look at Hull Rotterdam, then Holland and Germany, Austria and in through the Brennero. It was ghastly twenty years ago, but I expect they have finished the motorways in Germany by now![/quote]
I used to prefer to do make all my North-South distance on French motorways just because they're generally extremely good and very quiet but, having tried all the alternatives (including Switzerland), we've settled on the Brenner Pass route as the best one to get us from Abruzzo to Holland and back again.

We've done that journey several times over the last 18 months. (While I concur with points made about traffic on Dutch roads, unfortunately we can't avoid them since that's where my partner's family and friends live!).

The only annoying things about that route are the speed limits in Austria and the fact that you know that, it being Austria, you are being monitored with average speed systems and you [I]will[/I] get a ticket if you go faster than you should. However, the roads are very good, the scenery is nice and the route is across the narrowest bit of Austria, so you're soon on the German Autobahn and able to put your foot down.

The German part of the route is very good. There are serious roadworks underway in a couple of places, but the contraflows are generally not too bad. The other thing we've found is that if you have a GPS which accepts traffic information and will offer to automatically re-route you to avoid problems, Germany is one place where this works very well. Our experience is that the feature is worse than useless in Italy, but you're wise to believe warnings of delays and accept alternative routes when in Germany.

We stop at an Autobahn rest area hotel just south of Munich, which splits the journey unevenly. That works for us because while the first day heading North is a long one, we hit the Dutch traffic after a not too-stressful or long second day. On the way back, we don't have to start too early and so avoid the morning rush hour(s) and, even though the second day is a long drive, we know that we'll be home at the end of it.

Al

Many thanks all very helpful, especially the bit about Switzerland as we will have a car full of all sorts !