11628 Residency problems

There are two different issues here.

The first is your residency being refused. Yes, the comune can refuse your residency if your house isn't classed as habitable and you apply for residency at that address. You could have applied for residency at the property you were living in assuming that is registered as a habitable property. You only need to take up residency in the comune where your house is within 18 months (there are a LOT of other conditions too!). It is not whether you are living in the comune within 18 months that counts but whether you have actually got residency there.

You don't say which comune as some are definitely more strict than others.

The second problem is that if the 18 months have expired and you did not obtain residency within that time you must pay the difference between the reduced purchase tax you paid when you bought the property (4% if I remember correctly) and the standard purchase tax (10%). You could have got the 18 months extended if the project was ongoing but it would have had to have been extended before the 18 months expired.

I don't know if you would have any grounds to appeal if the comune took an very long time over refusing your residency. You would need to see a good commercialista to find that out.

My advice is do not wait for the tax man to find you, if you need to pay the difference in purchase tax as the fines are at least 30% of the tax owed which make it pretty substantial.

Put a caravan or a tent on the property - and move in.

I asked in the thread... is this acceptable? To basically live in a tent/caravan/hut etc... whilst your main property is being renovated.... and to apply for residency?

I am pretty sure you need an address so I think the answer is that it wouldn't work. I know some people whose residency was held up because no-one knew what number their house was. They only finally got a house number once their project was signed off after the renovation was done!

We gave our address as our unhabitable property, though suspect everyone in our comune knows that we live in a loaned house nearby. We received residency with no problems except E106 from the U.K. which the comune wouldn't accept cos it was written in English. But we circumvented that malarky when we found out that your supposed to take it to the local ASL office, who are competant authority. The comune could do no other than to accept the health cards we were given by ASL as proof of our health insurance here in italy. These comunes seem to be full of jobsworths waiting to pounce on every trifling detail...Hope you can sort it out.
Sprat

Hi
The ASL departments in our area are spread out in about 8 different buildings in various parts of the nearest big town. Which is the relevant ASL dept. that I need to go to to convert my E106 to an italian health card? My commune won't accept it in english and in fact are insisting that I take out a private Italian health policy.
Thanks

Hi and sorry to hear of your plight.

I don't know the ins and outs, only that some Comune will "try it" on to generate revenue. If you know anyone who knows anyone at the Comune they might be able to leverage things for you. What about the person who prepared the DIA (dichiazione inizia attivita) for the main rennovation, are they resident in your Comune, or even anyone who is working on the rennovation? Sometimes any known face can sway things. If language might be an issue find someone local who knows you well enough and take them along with you to reason/plead/shout/point out the stupidity of the situation.

Good luck

[quote=Ronan;110289]Hi
The ASL departments in our area are spread out in about 8 different buildings in various parts of the nearest big town. Which is the relevant ASL dept. that I need to go to to convert my E106 to an italian health card? My commune won't accept it in english and in fact are insisting that I take out a private Italian health policy.
Thanks[/quote]

I think you're in the wrong thread Ronan, but I think yoou need to go to the main Agenzia delle Entrate office in Aulla. PM me if you don't know where it is, but please accept that I might be wrong with this advice.

[quote=Ronan;110289]Hi
The ASL departments in our area are spread out in about 8 different buildings in various parts of the nearest big town. Which is the relevant ASL dept. that I need to go to to convert my E106 to an italian health card? My commune won't accept it in english and in fact are insisting that I take out a private Italian health policy.
Thanks[/quote]

I did an Italian translation of a British E106 for someone here on Italy Mag and their Comune and ASL accepted it. PM me if you think I can be of any help to you at all....

Bolton35

What 'status' does your outbuilding have? Surely this is 'habitable' and not a caravan or tent but a permanent structure on the same plot/address. And could you not use that to sway the argument to your favour?

Best of luck.

I feel certain that Ghianda is correct. There is possibly a "jobs" worth at work here. You must surely be using a Geometra who will be liaising with your Comune? Can't he help you? Our sorted all this out. The goal posts do move all the time in Italy but we restored our cowshed into our first home before we tackled the big house. The address is exactly the same. Same numero civico.....You need an Italian friend on the case pronto.

Nobody has yet enquired of Bolton whether he is living, full time, in his outbuilding. I'm inclined to agree with Noble and others that living full-time in an annex to a property should be quite enough to establish residency - but spending a couple of weeks in it 'now and then', while living in England, isn't going to satisfy the comune that you are genuinely resident.

Many thanks for your replies...
We have now got our geometra on the case and he is helping us out.
We will let you know how we get on...

Is the outbuilding a separate address/numero civico or a sub of the main house?

Great stuff..Hope all goes well
Sprat

I remember reading in "The Reluctant Tuscan" by Phil Doran ISBN 1-592-40189-9 how [U]the comune for their renovation project flatly denied the existence of the house[/U], even though it was clearly there. Not a great book, but a bit of light hearted year in provence stuff with some good home truths about life here.

Sorry this was one book I happily gave away, the man was full of b...lls...t. he even managed to pick a grape from the hanging vine in MAY!!!

It must have been a very sour grape....

Well Gala let's say the book gave me tummy ache!

Ronan
Comunes are not the "competent authority". If you look at the notes that came with the E106 you'll see a couple of lines in English telling you to take it to the ASL. That's were I took mine. They were not that familiar with it but at least, after the woman at the sportello had sought advice from 3 other colleagues & led me in & out of their various offices, accepted that it was (or rather should be) their area of expertise & their responsibility to accept it regardless of which EU language it's written in. I would recommend, although strictly speaking its not needed, that you obtain a translation (Carol B?) & take it to the ASL office with you. The ASL office gave me my health card that day, on the spot &, because my partner, who wasn't seeking residency, is regarded as my dependent, she also got a health card. It's the health card that the Comune needs, not the E106. Tough it out at the ASL office. My Italian isn't too bad but it was still hard work because NOBODY HAS BEEN BRIEFED ON THIS STUFF.
Bolton 35
For a kick off, before your 18 months expires, make sure that your request for residency is formally noted at the Comune. They'll enter it into a big dusty ledger. Get a reciept too if you can. If 18 months has already expired then tell the Comune that when you eventually get your residency......& you will, the are obliged to date your residency from the day you first requested residency from them. They are, as jobsworths do, making sure that they don't get their knuckles rapped for granting residency to someone that they should not, but they need to be reminded that were an issue to arise between you & the Finanzia with them wanting repayment of the discounted property tax then the Comune would be culpable if it was found that they had refused your application unfairly.
Where you currently live in the Comune that your Prima Casa is is not relevant to gaining your residency in that Comune. You could be living at a freinds house, or renting. The fully converted outbuilding you are living in: does that have a permission for habitation. If it is converted then it SHOULD have one. If it does, why cant you tell them that's your home?
Officials here can be a supreme pain in the backside but it is essential that you deal with them politely, patiently & with good humour & smiles. Demonstrate your frustration with tears rather than anger & appeal to their common sense & sense of moral justice if all else fails.
Good luck