11800 Renting out to Italians

Hi Headyheady
No personal experience but perhaps you could ask a local estate/rental office. There is a great estate agent in Anghiari, Romolini - just google and you will find them. Ricardo or Marta could have some info. and I dont think they would mind giving advice.

In England you would still need a court order to evict, should they choose not to go, an expensive operation, sorry no idea how this applies here.
A

I think it's easier to rent out to non Italians if you want your place back quickly at the end. Yet my friend in Italy, Italian, rents his flat out during the summer months and seems everything runs smoothly. Maybe because they are just "holiday lets'

Check with Estate Agents - [url=http://www.paginegialle.it/]PagineGialle.it[/url]

PS Don't forget to take meter readings just before and after the rental.

The length of standard tenancy agreements in Italy is four years.

Hi,
if you want to set the rent sum yourselves, i.e. a "canone libera", then the only contract you can do is 4 plus 4 - meaning minimum duration of 4 years plus the option to renew for an additional 4. This is the only restriction (the duration) of an otherwise freely negotiated contract between the parties. At the end of the first four years, the parties can choose not to renew, giving 6 months notice for one of the following reasons: the landlord wants to use the property himself or let family use it, the tenant has another property available for use in the same comune, the property needs to be restored because it is damaged in some way or the landlord simply wants to restore it completely and needs to empty the property, the tenant does not occupy the property on an ongoing basis without just cause, the landlord intends to sell the property to third parties and does not have other properties; in the latter case the tenant has rights of pre-emption.

So letting for 6 months or a year is not really possible: you can still do it, but if the tenants decide they do not want to move at the end of the contract, the law is entirely on their side and they will have the right to the usual 4 + 4 deal. Some try to get around this by doing a series of one month contracts (contracts up to one month do not have to be registered and are usual for holiday lets), but again the tenants, if they decided not to move, could show that with their series of one month contracts, they were actually living in the property on an ongoing basis and therefore have the right to a 4+4 contract. The law appears to be heavily on the side of the tenant in residential letting.

PS if you are extremely unfortunate and your tenant does not pay you in clear breach of contract (even a regular 4+4 contract), it will still be extremely difficult to get them out of the property, if they don't want to move it will involve a lengthy legal process and the presence of the police to get them out. The best way to prevent this is to use one of the letting estate agents who handle residential lettings: they do extensive background checks on potential renters. It doesn't eliminate the risk but it does reduce it.

The first place I tried to rent here I was turned down by the owner as he didn't think I had enough income. Turned out the previous tenant was another single woman who hadn't paid her rent, so he was taking no chances. Got a bigger (if slightly tattier) place with great views for less, and I've always paid my rent on time, so his loss. But gardahomes is right, I've heard enough moans down the bar about tenants here, and my agent explained more or less the same situation. It might explain why so many properties remain empty..

If leaving a home empty is the problem I came across a very good website where you can contact housesitters who will live in your home for free and keep everything safe.

[URL="http://www.mindmyhouse.com"]www.mindmyhouse.com[/URL]

[quote=gardahomes;112485]Hi,
if you want to set the rent sum yourselves, i.e. a "canone libera", then the only contract you can do is 4 plus 4 - meaning minimum duration of 4 years plus the option to renew for an additional 4.[/quote]

Garda - big thanks for this. Please can I ask you for guidance if looking at this from the other perspective. Say someone wanted to rent from an Italian for a period which would certainly be less that 4 years, but maybe up to 1 or 2 years. What obligation would they have to the landlord in respect of the remaining period after they had vacated the property. Would that be determined by agreed small print in the contract re giving notive or fall under some global law?

[quote=Ghianda;112507]Garda - big thanks for this. Please can I ask you for guidance if looking at this from the other perspective. Say someone wanted to rent from an Italian for a period which would certainly be less that 4 years, but maybe up to 1 or 2 years. What obligation would they have to the landlord in respect of the remaining period after they had vacated the property. Would that be determined by agreed small print in the contract re giving notive or fall under some global law?[/quote]

hi ghianda.
(by the way, it doesn't really make a difference whether the landlord or tenant are Italian or not).
I don't believe there is any such "global" law - no idea if European law applies. But Italian law says, if I remember correctly, the following:

The landlord can withdraw only after the first 4 years in the case of certain specific circumstances. These circumstances are actually defined by law. Otherwise he/she can only withdraw after 8 years - the natural expiry of the contract (if the tenant chooses to renew for the additional 4 years).

The tenant, on the other hand, can withdraw at any time giving 6 months notice by recorded delivery, for "gravi motivi" - serious reasons. These "gravi motivi" however are not spelled out by the law, so if the landlord contested it you'd have to convince a judge that your reasons for withdrawing were serious enough. The reasons should be specified in the letter giving notice. There seems to be no clear guidelines as to what "gravi motivi" means. However, as the law does tend to favour the tenant (the "consumer"), I doubt many landlords would fight you on this. They might however use it as a nice excuse to withhold your deposit.

If both tenant and landlord agree on the date of vacating prior to the legal expiry, then it's not a problem, but if the landlord wants to be difficult the very least they'll do is withhold your deposit and you'd have to prove your "reasons" to the court...

Hope this helps

Thanks Garda - indeed it does help. Sorry for the confusion re the word "global" by which I meant some over-arching Italian legislation.

Now - time for you to go and burp the young 'un.:smile:

Many thanks Garda,
That was really clear and helpful. So, if in doubt and you don't have to rent out DONT.
It sort of explains how the previous owner, not the 'new' owner we bought our house from was still in situ in the main house, while he allowed the 'new owners' to live in one of the cottages (for around 2 years!). Our purchase only came about because of the death of the 'new owner'. And how our gut feeling when he asked to 'stay just a few more days because he hadn't finished packing' didn't sound right. Although he generously offered to find a little space for us after we had bought the property!! We refused to go through with the final contract until he had left. But that was after he had had to return one or two items (gates etc....) that he had already sold to 'our' owner. He was quite a guy!! For those with long memories an Italian 'Lovejoy'. A loveable rogue.

Sounds like you acted very wisely Aretina or you could have got stuck with your very own Crone in the cantina.:bigergrin:

Now how about (over on the right thread of course) you give us some language tips after you course - I genuinely would be interested in any things which moved you from wherever you were linguistically to wherever you are now:yes:

If you let unfurnished you let on a standard 4+4 contract. Four years and renewable. If its furnished you can let on a transitory contract for a maximum of 1 year. The landlors rights letting furnished are much greater - and the eviction problems are virtually nil. ITs the contract that all people use to let to students. You must register the contract at the Ufficio delle entrate which will cost about 120 euros and you pay half each usually. There is a set form for such a contract. Definition of furnished is much the same asin the UK - bed, table chair and wardrobe in each bedroom and tables and chairs in the communal area is the minimum. However the landlord remains responsible for more expenses than under the standard 4+4 contract.

You need to be careful with transitory contracts, they are not automatically guaranteed for “furnished” apartments: there are other requirements (furnished isn't one of them but obviously furniture is usually included where a landlord is trying to get a transitory tenant). Just being furnished isn’t an “excuse” to be able to use a transitory contract. They are also easily contested if all the requirements are not met.

their duration can be between one and eighteen months (or from 6 months to 3 years for students) BUT:

- a description of the "transitory" nature must be included in the contract, along with documentation proving the transitory nature: this must be something like a work contract that expires within 18 months, or for students their university enrolment papers and proof of residence outside the comune of the university)
- if the property is located in a high-density area or surrounding comuni, the rent cannot be freely set by the parties but must fall within (much lower) minimum and maximum rates, with a slight percentage increase for furnished properties. These rates vary from area to area.
- when the contract expires, the landlord is obliged to verify that the reasons for the transitory nature of the contract still exist; if not, the contract automatically turns into a 4+4. These measures are to prevent "abuse" of the transitory contract, i.e. landlords trying to get out of the 4+4 (or 3+2 with rent control).

However I did some checking on the 4+4 contracts and the parties can contractually agree that the tenant can withdraw early, giving 6 months notice. If there is no such clause, the "gravi motivi" rule will apply.

Or you can do it the way I did it - which I want to state quite clearly here and now is NOT recommended nor legally binding and will probably get you into trouble if things do go wrong.

It was just over three years ago when I decided to rent a little apartment - 2 beds, 2 nice terraces, decent bath, small kitchen, basic but comfortable and fully furnished (ie the owners had left everything there - down to the teaspoons). Everything was done on a handshake and a silent nod. Landlord was a decent old guy and this was his old family home in the village - he and his wife had moved closer to the town into a super place near the beach and he just wanted someone to keep the place decent (ie free of damp in the winter) not damage it and a few euro a month for his pocket. I kinda knew he was a good bloke from the minute I met him - and I guess he kinda knew I wouldn't give him too much hassle either.

Mia figlia and I became good friends with him and his wife and I was always three months late with the rent - which didn't pee him off in the slightest 'cus when I went to pay the arrears, I also paid the next three months in advance. Swings and roundabouts - give and take. Suited me fine and I know it suited him too.

He used to say to me "Non so perche', ma mi fido completamente di te signora!" Wise old devil! :bigergrin:

Another important point to consider is that the owner has to check the residency status of the tenant. We already discussed this new law last December, but have a look at it:
[url]http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/calabria/8844-property-management.html[/url]