549 Abruzzo

[QUOTE=sincps]We are thinking of going to Abruzzo as we try to decide on where we should or possibly afford to buy a property. Can anyone tell me good and bad things about this area.

Also does anyone know of any websites etc that will advise on areas that are prone to earth quakes and flooding in Italy.

Thanks[/QUOTE]
Try piemonte properties website,I know they do mention earthquakes.

See the following

[url]http://www.smithgcb.demon.co.uk/pp_earthquake.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.ingv.it/~roma/attivita/pererischio/macrosismica/Seismic/mappe.html#mapp_eng[/url]
[url]http://emidius.mi.ingv.it/GNDT/ogs_int.html[/url]
[url]http://emidius.mi.ingv.it/GNDT/ogs_pga.html[/url]
[url]http://www.canino.info/rubriche/geologia/01/Fig_1.jpg[/url]
[url]http://www.iiasa.ac.at/Publications/Documents/IR-02-025.pdf[/url]

HTH

Our back garden always floods, does this count. We dont have earth quakes, but we have lots of earth spinning, boy the wine from our neighbour is good

i can tell you a lot of things about the place... but they would be personal opinions.... and indeed most of them would be good

in a sense as you might have seen in lots of postings here if you mention something good others in other areas get offended and say theirs is better

something bad and your told to go back to where you came from ... neither of which comments bother me very much ... it just gets a bit boring after a while

if you want to enquire via personal message go thru my user profile and i will email you

as regards eartquakes... and floods... you will find that this is an area as is most of italy that could get an earthquake ... i think we had one this year already.. either here or in southern marche... but suffice to say i didnt notice it.... my in laws phoned to tell us because it had been on the news that it happened... no damage

as for floods... individual houses in areas can all be subject to this ... flood plains will be obvious... river valley properties will in general and almost always be colder and damper than hilltop villages providing you keep at around the 400- 500 m mark and a reasonable distance from the bigger mountains ... mud slide areas generally have very bumpy undulating roads becuse the earth gets washed out from underneath... in general though if you drive up to a village ...and it has stood there several hundred years it will still be there after we have all gone..... in the case of rural properties there will be obvious signs... if there are massive cracks... foundations have moved...water marks on the walls.... great big slices of earth that are a meter lower than the neighbouring area... mud movement

the best advise.... take an aeroplane and do a research visit... apart from pescara... the obvious one if you live close to stanstead ...you can also fly in to rome ciampino .. loads of budget airline from different regional airports... you reach the aquila western side of abruzzo in about 30 mins and can be over to the tearmo side...adriatic side a further hour on...

i can reccomend a few self catering places or agriturismo .. that are of a resonable price and standard.. if you want hotels... look at the abruzzo websites

As John says you can have earthquakes pretty much anywhere here. We have had 3 that I know of this year. All minor and no damage that I have heard of.

As for flooding, unless you are in a valley I would have thought that landslides are a bigger concern. There have been many, many landslides in our area over the last 3 months with most roads just starting to reopen. Last night we had a huge storm and torrential rain so I am expecting some of these roads to be closed again today. Now is a good time to look for houses that might be affected as there will be evidence of the earth movement because of the unusually large snow melt and rain storms.

Again, John's advice is good but cracks can appear in houses for other reasons too - failed lintels, new section of house not tied properly to the old.....

[QUOTE=Penny]As John says you can have earthquakes pretty much anywhere here. We have had 3 that I know of this year. All minor and no damage that I have heard of.[/QUOTE]

Most of Abruzzo on rhe Adriatic coast is at low (very low) risk of earthquake. For some reasom Marche is much higher risk as is the Lazio side of the apennines for example L'Aquila. The risk increases the closer one gets to Molise.

[QUOTE=sincps]We are thinking of going to Abruzzo as we try to decide on where we should or possibly afford to buy a property. Can anyone tell me good and bad things about this area.

Also does anyone know of any websites etc that will advise on areas that are prone to earth quakes and flooding in Italy.

Thanks[/QUOTE]
All we can say is do consider Lazio. Come and take a look for yourself. If we can give you any info on the area and where to look etc do contact us direct. You could be pleasantly surprised if you vist this area.

Some very sound advice offered by John (there you see..I don’t always refute what you say).

Like you, I too get bored with some of the postings that go on about how some regions are better than others. The reality is that many parts of central Italy (Italy on the whole) are fascinating, unspoilt and quiet. There is plenty of choice. I travel frequently throughout Italy and sure, there are parts where the landscape for me is truly breathtaking whilst others are totally uninspiring. If any one asks for my opinion I like to tell them how it is. But it is up to them to decide because what is acceptable for me may not necessarily be acceptable for them and vice versa.

I agree that the best thing to do is to plan a trip and then go and explore. But I would stress that it is important to see a place during other seasons and not just visit when the skies are blue and when the fields are covered in poppies or sunflowers. Get to see the place during winter as well. Check out the local infrastructure. Check out the local taxes. Check out the schools (if you have young children). In short, preparation, preparation, preparation. Getting carried away with the dream of living abroad and downsizing your life comes with its own set of risks. You must be prepared to manage them. There’s no rocket science in this. It is common sense.

Steve…I do wish you would get your facts right! It is not a simple case of low risk versus high risk Parts of the Marche along the coast, like Abruzzo, is not prone to any seismic activity. Your comments do seem to infer that Abruzzo is better than other regions, underpinned perhaps by your own personal preferences. However, this is not the point. The point is that with the new legislation at least 98% of Italy has been classified as seismic. Earthquakes can happen anywhere as John points out.

Penny…your point about cracks is a valid one. It would be very unscientific if you based your property search purely on the basis of earthquakes and flooding. Other factors are also very important. It is obvious that you would tend to select areas where there is less probability of this sort of thing happening. But there are no absolute guarantees. You only have to consider this year’s freak weather to realise that.

I’m glad Will has brought up the issue of price. I get to see a number of properties in different regions and there is, without doubt, some disparity in price (prices in some parts of Abruzzo have risen and can match those elsewhere). Although property prices are generally lower in some regions, the market is volatile. It is impossible to generalise about the market value of properties because price is strongly influenced by many variables such as the vendor’s own necessities, demand, location, and vicinity to local town/village, accessibility, local infrastructure and the natural environment. These are not easy to quantify.

I agree…that if you are looking for a house with a modest (depends on what you mean by modest) budget, then Marche, Tuscany, Lazio and Umbria may not be the place for you. But then again, Italy may not be the place for you.

Italy is a land of historical and cultural riches as well as a land of rare natural beauty. If you are looking for a cheap house…there seem to be plenty around in places like Bulgaria!

[QUOTE=Charles Joseph]Steve…I do wish you would get your facts right! It is not a simple case of low risk versus high risk Parts of the Marche along the coast, like Abruzzo, is not prone to any seismic activity. Your comments do seem to infer that Abruzzo is better than other regions, underpinned perhaps by your own personal preferences. However, this is not the point. [/QUOTE]

Charles if you care to look at the URLs I listed, you will discover, as I stated that Abruzzo east of the Apennines is relatively low risk for earthquakes. Yes, they can happen anywhere and I was in Assissi during the recent earthquake so I'm well aware of the possibility for being affected.

However my facts were correct and came from the Italian state seismic survey.

Perhaps your own desire to flog property in Marche is blinding you to the fact that it is a relatively high risk area for quakes?

i think that are you are prone to nervousness about eartquaks then italy might be a bit unsuitable.... and there are some quite high risk areas.... i guess after the famous seaquake it might play on your mind....

the sites mentioned by lotaresco will list the worst historic places....

the main problem to consider though is the way that the italian government responds when these disasters... ie the big ones occcur ... and it does not make very good reading... places like assissi still have temporary housing for those affected... the church was put back together in virtually no time...

where regions are affected .. someone mentioned the molise ... public buildings are often not built to very high standards .... and i am not saying just the molise... but it is a common fact here that building contracts are set out and payed for by the contractors and the payment costs are recouped often by saving on the amount of cement or other structural important items

[url]http://www.justresponse.net[/url] ... if you look at this site and the articles on italy you will find one about italian eartqaukes... ok this site comes from a different side to say italmag... and everything has a balance and counterbalance so its good to view things from different sides and somewhere in the middle you might well arrive at the truth ... but it gives a good idea on the scope of the problems which is not so much the earthquake happening but the structures ability to remain intact....

in a sense look at japan and their eartquake problem and look at the casualty figures... you might well decide its not the earthquake thats the problem its more the infostructures ability to withstand it ... and in italy you cannot be sure

so while some may not agree on where they are going to happen and not many of us can know for certain.... a decision based on a regions relative honesty ... historically might well help .... and i think both the marche and abruzzo are two of the regions in italy... and there are lots of others... (Trying to save myself a bit of abuse here) .... which seem to have the lowest crime rates and in general well organised and efficient administrations

also in defence of abruzzo and charles comments on the non prettification...in another reply he made on the area... he mentioned ugly buildings in villages .... i think you might well find this is a good example of why prices are cheaper and in a sense life here just a bit more real.... we lived in devon... one village two miles away was very pretty... and had become quite desirable in the housing stakes... another one.. much the same size was not quite so pretty... it had a few ugly buildings .... however the prices of property... were almost doubled in the pretty village...

both were withinn five miles of exeter... both had very good schools but it was shrinking in the expensive village... the cheaper village had shops... both had as many pubs as each other .. the cheaper one had a train service.... the pretty one was dying as regards local life... because many of the houses were second homes or proffesionals that didnt choose to have their children in a small local school they were off at private ones.. so the locals were having to move out to the cheaper village to have shops and a school available close by

so pretty is not everything.... and abruzzo still does not have heavy industry nor large amounts of crime.... it is much more convenient as regards access... via either rome or pescara... the food tastes as good... but costs a bit less in general...it just so happens that it has not been pretified... which some might well regard as not a bad thing at all...

Perhaps your own desire to flog property in Marche is blinding you to the fact that it is a relatively high risk area for quakes?[/QUOTE]

Steve, you still seem intent on not getting your facts right and obviously haven't understood my posting. I am fully aware of the different web sites and I am also in possession of the latest seismic reports along with copies of the relevant legislation.

How disappointing to note your comments which do nothing other than peperpuate a myth that seems to devalue everything that other parts of Italy have to offer.

Flogging properties in Marche is an interesting, albeit some what crude and limited expression. If you bother to check you will note that
we also cover other regions. More importantly, our company builds and renovates properties as well. We are professional engineers, Architects and builders so I think we do know a little more about properties than you seem to give us credit for.

John...whilst I am in full agreement with what you say, the area I visited in Abruzzo, which I didn't particularly like, didn't offer anything particularly "cheaper" in fact, some of the prices were a wee bit exaggerated for what was on offer. Other parts of Abruzzo are much better for people who have a modest budget.

[QUOTE=Charles Joseph]Steve, you still seem intent on not getting your facts right and obviously haven't understood my posting. I am fully aware of the different web sites and I am also in possession of the latest seismic reports along with copies of the relevant legislation.

How disappointing to note your comments which do nothing other than peperpuate a myth that seems to devalue everything that other parts of Italy have to offer.[/QUOTE]

Legislation has little, if anything to do with the magnitude of risk. Italy as a whole is an geologically active area, and it makes sense to declare that all properties must comply to a minimum standard for earthquake resistance. It would be foolish in the extreme for a legislator to state definitely that an area is low risk and hence not required to comply with building codes, because an unusual seismic event could leave the politican with egg on his face.

That said, within the spectrum of risk, it remains true that Abruzzo east of the Apennines is a relatively low risk area within Italy (although much higher risk than anywhere in the UK). You appear to have problems understanding the term "relative". I am not attempting to "devalue everything that other parts of Italy have to offer" I am giving an objective assessment of the data.

Your assertion that I am "not getting ... facts right" is incorrect, unworthy, and coloured it seems by much wishful thinking on your part. And it's foolish because all it takes is a glance at the maps of seismic risk across Italy to see that the statements that I made are correct.

You stated earlier that you were involved in the defence industry, so was I, as a scientist, paid to evaluate evidence of this nature. Would I be correct in thinking that your role was in sales?

And finally if you wish to point out where I have made mistakes, you'd look better if you did so, rather than to resort to childish name-calling.

[QUOTE=adriatica]so pretty is not everything.... and abruzzo still does not have heavy industry nor large amounts of crime.... it is much more convenient as regards access... via either rome or pescara... the food tastes as good... but costs a bit less in general...it just so happens that it has not been pretified... which some might well regard as not a bad thing at all...[/QUOTE]

Having said which, if one wants "pretty" then Abruzzo has it in large quantities. I can only suggest that Charles is commenting in much the same way as someone visiting Salford and Blackpool then suggesting that all of Lancashire is horrible, or visiting Barrow in Furness and stating that the Lake District is a horrible industrial mess.

If I wished to do the same for Marche, I would say that San Benedetto and Ancona are horrible industrial places, or that Macerata is a dump set in a dusty, dirty region. Or for Umbria ponit out that Foligno, Perugia and Deruta are unattractive places so all of Umbria must be terrible.

The truth being that Charles's statements about Abruzzo and those above do not do justice to any of the regions. People need industrial towns, because people need to work. Pretty little villages are usually pretty because they have no industry. However to portray all of Abruzzo as an industrial wasteland or an ugly place is laughable and to portray other neighbouring regions as flawless gems full of chocolate-box villages is also laughable.

Anyway, I'm glad Charles hates the place, and I wish more British people did. I don't want to live in Chiantishire, nor even in Chipping Norcia.

lotaresco

pedantic semantics... opinions... forced or not... aggravated assault by email...

what is with you

as someone has commented in the past...

did you fall out of bed on the wrong side and bump your head

from my atrocious spellling to not bothering to use caps lock...number of dots...

and mr joseph whom i am sure will rush to his own defence but as i have mentioned in other postings may have his bias but in general his knowledge of italian law is unsurpassed on this forum

to ronald... who took over ... before i even noticed your name... who pulled this place back together after it went through a very bad patch and now has it running better than ever before...

is there no limit to your ire....

have you spent too long being a whizz kid that you now believe the whizz part

or is it just that you have to reside in england for periods of times and something to do with marbles and such happens to you...

please relax... this will do your heart and blood pressure no good.....

and this from someone with no connecetions to the defence industry and indeed no wish to have any connection with the sas.... relatives in calabria are much better

my heartfelt thanks for all your comments but really do try and be a bit british about all this

and finally apologies to the poster of this subject for going off track

[QUOTE=adriatica]lotaresco

pedantic semantics... opinions... forced or not... aggravated assault by email...

what is with you
[/QUOTE]

Are you alleging that I have sent insulting, agressive or otherwise injurious email to someone? That's a serious charge and I hope that you have something to back up your (libellous) claim with. Because I deny it absolutely, and request that you retract that claim.

You ask "what is with you", or at least I assume you're asking, absence of a question mark makes it difficult to be sure. I simply will not put up with some pompously telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about, when I know very well what I'm talking about and have in the past provided references to the subject in question. Are you telling me that I have to placate an aggressor?

When I found this forum, I was really pleased with the masses of information and at first thought the feuds were quite funny but now it's just getting ridiculous and detracting from people being able to view both sides of any coin and make their own decision. The truth be known you are probably all right in one way or another and have found various information from all helpful.
Just stop rising to the bait. You have made your points now leave it! Worse than my kids!