1065 Ciao from Dublin!

Welcome on board, you just go and have a chat to that nice Mr. Ryanair man, bless him, if you give him small amounts of money he transports you here... ;)

Welcome and hope you have fun here. We can't provide the tan but can fill in for most of the rest...

I've heard Michael O'Leary of Ryanair called many things, but never a 'nice man'. The fact that he supplies cheap flights is a benefit for many who like to get to Italy from time to time without spending too much. But those cheap flights come at a cost, as many of Mr O'Leary's employees and former employers can tell.

While there is no doubt that EU deregulation of the airline industry has produced some benefits, I'd hate to think that Michael O'Leary was held up as one of them.

Those with a burning interest in Mr O'Leary might care to check out Dublin's Phoenix magazine --http://www.phoenix-magazine.com. I'm afraid it is a subscription effort.
rgds
Eddie B

[QUOTE=EddieB]I've heard Michael O'Leary of Ryanair called many things, but never a 'nice man'. The fact that he supplies cheap flights is a benefit for many who like to get to Italy from time to time without spending too much. But those cheap flights come at a cost, as many of Mr O'Leary's employees and former employers can tell.

While there is no doubt that EU deregulation of the airline industry has produced some benefits, I'd hate to think that Michael O'Leary was held up as one of them.

Those with a burning interest in Mr O'Leary might care to check out Dublin's Phoenix magazine --http://www.phoenix-magazine.com. I'm afraid it is a subscription effort.
rgds
Eddie B[/QUOTE]

He is not highly regarded in Ireland - his frequent spats with the Taoiseach (Irish version of a Prime Minister) and flouting of various laws (including purchasing a taxi licence so that he could use bus corridors to skip traffict) make him a rather unpopular person.

Also, the fact that cheap Ryanair flights are a rarity when flying from Ireland (Aer Lingus oftentimes works out cheaper), he really does not benefit us much at all.

last i heard about our dear Mr. Ryan (aside from the 'fight them on the beaches' ad that caused so much trouble recently) was his valiant legal contest against a disabled person looking for some compensation. Hero of our times.

I'm glad that there are such people as Michael O'Leary in the world having a pop at the stuffed shirts such as the Teashop of the Irish Parliament and the eurocrats who think that it's clever to make every passenger on a flight subsidise the travel costs of imaginary passengers, or even to rig the ,arket for flights so that their fat, lazy employees can continue to dole out second rate service on inflated salaries.

Sure some of Ryanair's employees don't like O'Leary, he asks them to work for their money. OTOH many of them love their jobs and they have him to thank for that.

[QUOTE=archvillain]last i heard about our dear Mr. Ryan (aside from the 'fight them on the beaches' ad that caused so much trouble recently) was his valiant legal contest against a disabled person looking for some compensation. Hero of our times.[/QUOTE]
Umm that's a complete misrepresentation of the case. Ryanair fought a case against being required to provide free facilities for the disabled when Ryanair themselves had to pay through the nose for such facilities. A disabled person took up two or three seats, only paid for one, and Ryanair were happy for that arrangement to continue but considered it beyond the pale for Ryanair to have to provide a free wheelchair when Ryanair were being charged for it. They also considered it ludicrous for other passengers to have to pay extra to subsidise the travel costs of the disabled.

No airline likes to carry disabed passengers, Ryanair made the mistake of being willing to talk about the issue.

If you ever find yourself on an aeroplane that has made an emergency landing, that has a disabled person on the flight, you will probably find your milk of human kindness drying up rather rapidly. A wheelchair becomes an obstacle to escape. Passengers already trample each other to death in their attempts to escape, a disabled person will, I suspect, not be treated any differently.

I've got flights booked already for next Feb at only £1 each way but the best I've found so far is Xmas shopping, Stanstead to Brindisi, 6th Dec to 13th for an expensive 3p each way (well they were on Sunday, they may have gone now) so Mr Fantastic Georgeos I Love You Ryanair, bring it on................. :D

I don't thing there's really much more to be said. Bring back slavery, perhaps. After all, it did deliver cheap sugar.
And let's have those Dublin folk who think they know about Michael O'Leary's behaviour keep their information to themselves. Whizz kids are what we need to explain it all to us. (As SIPTU can explain).
Beir beannacht
Eddie B

Yeah - God forbid the able-bodied should be inconvenienced in any way. After all, its tough having all the advantages.

[QUOTE=EddieB]I don't thing there's really much more to be said. Bring back slavery, perhaps. After all, it did deliver cheap sugar.
And let's have those Dublin folk who think they know about Michael O'Leary's behaviour keep their information to themselves. Whizz kids are what we need to explain it all to us. (As SIPTU can explain).
Beir beannacht
Eddie B[/QUOTE]
I didn't ask you to keep any information to yourself, I gave my point of view. All you are doing is making it obvious that you can't tolerate anyone having a point of view different to your own. I doubt that you've conducted a straw poll of the entire population of Dublin to support your views, so your comment remains your opinion.

I don't care much at all for what the sheeple "think" of someone. O'Leary has brought jobs to Ireland and has shaken up the compacent fat-cat aviation industry. You don't like him, I might not like him if I met him, but I won't start slagging him off in a public forum based on a pile of prejudice and the uninformed opinions of hack journalists.

As to his "tricks" with a taxi, good on him. If the politicans make stupid rules it's up to the citizens to work their way around them.

[QUOTE=annec]Yeah - God forbid the able-bodied should be inconvenienced in any way. After all, its tough having all the advantages.[/QUOTE]
If you want to pay extra to support disabled people, you are welcome to do so. I don't see why that obligation should be imposed on anyone else without their express permission though. Charitable giving is a voluntary act, taking the money without my permission is theft. Government taxation is legalised theft, with threats of violence against the person.

As I suggested, it seems there's not much more to be said, really.
Not sure exactly what 'hack journalists' are, other than a silly term used by used by the sort of people who don't realise that calling Ireland's prime minister a 'teashop' is a joke which has outlived its 'sell by' date by some 30 years.

But then, who really cares? Taxation is theft, salary is robbery, and no doubt the flying hours safety standards flouted by Ryanair are oppression.

But let's hear if for those who fight oppression by the disabled. Let them stay home and allow the rest of us to get on with enjoying ourselves. Though it may be worth remembering that everyone who lives long enough is likely to have to cope with a disability, eventually.

rgds
Eddie B
(Incidentally, I'm not one of those 'Dublin folks', lotaresco. Reading carefully is an important discipline)

[QUOTE=lotaresco]I didn't ask you to keep any information to yourself, I gave my point of view.

Fine - but an atom or two of sensitivity wouldn't go amiss

Where's the rub, if O'Leary breaks, bends or flouts the law, he will be brought to book, I daresay all the critics on this thread will only use "reputable" airlines to visit Italy, so, that would mean flying on, errrrrrrrrm... :confused:

[QUOTE=EddieB](Incidentally, I'm not one of those 'Dublin folks', lotaresco. Reading carefully is an important discipline)[/QUOTE]
I didn't say you were. As you say, reading carefully is an important discipline.

You don't like O'Leary, you've made that clear. Though what your dislike is founded on other than misreported and apparently misunderstood drivel is hard to say. If you think he's in some way an ogre or is alternatively beyond the pale of civilised behaviour you must have lead a sheltered life. O'Leary has cocked a snook at the stuffed shirts, and has achieved the almost impossible of taking Boeing to the cleaners. His *positive* influence has extended to the entire European aviation fleet.

Most of the anti-O'Leary ranting comes from his business opponents, politicians and those carefully fed material by the two parties previously mentioned. I trust that you put your money where your mouth is on this subject and fly only with airlines other than Ryanair? Good for you if you do. Of course you will have to put up with Altitalia and Air Chance and their policy of losign baggage on every flight, never getting an aircraft to its destination on time and downing tools and going on strike at the drop of a hat. But I'll think of you as I travel on time, to schedule at a reasonable price.

Now if you want a business ogre to rant about, there's Rupert Murdoch, a man who has done far more harm than O'Leary ever has or will.

[QUOTE=annec]Fine - but an atom or two of sensitivity wouldn't go amiss[/QUOTE]
Sensitivity about what? I don't see that being disabled permits anyone to put their hand in my pocket without permission.

If someone disabled wants a hand overcoming their disability then they deserve it. Subsidised holidays isn't part of the package IMO.

It seems we have diverted from the original subject under discussion into a bit of a fight.

I would suggest it get back on track. We are all allowed to have opinions, we are not however allowed to get personal, nasty or insulting when expressing them.

Please play nice!

Sano is right; time I cooled down (as well as some others).
But folks, please don't treat cheap plane flights (incidentally, I don't use Ryanair) as if they come without a cost in labour rights, safety standards and many other things which many of us consider important. (And that goes double/treble/and much more for Rupert Murdoch, of whose behaviour I have considerable experience).

If we are all to 'play nice', though, maybe the following statement deserves a little reconsideration:
"If you ever find yourself on an aeroplane that has made an emergency landing, that has a disabled person on the flight, you will probably find your milk of human kindness drying up rather rapidly. A wheelchair becomes an obstacle to escape. Passengers already trample each other to death in their attempts to escape, a disabled person will, I suspect, not be treated any differently."

It is worth remembering that everyone eventually gets to suffer some disability, if they live long enough.

rgds
Eddie B
Incidentally, there's a fair account of the Ryanair wheelchair case at :
[url]http://www.out-law.com/page-4261[/url]

Someone said a while ago that forums always start off well and then degenerate. This is the first forum I've contributed to but it seems to be running true to form in that one or two people seem to delight in virulently attacking anyone else's mildly expressed view.

I hope they wouldn't express themselves in the same way face to face. Of course that's the problem with electronic communication

The shame is that I think it has an effect how the forum develops. Quite a lot of names I saw regularly a few months ago have disappeared. Maybe they are still viewing but don't wish to contribute in case they come under attack. So we're left with a one-sided debate and missing out on a lot of useful information.

Since I don't really see my view of the world reflected here I'll probably drift off over the next couple of months as well - though I will still check out the food recipes from time to time..........

Anne, look at the beginning of this thread, I made a "humorous" reference to someone who'd said they needed, or would like a tan, suggesting that they take a cheap flight to Italy, that comment seems to have created an argument between a number of people over legal matters, disability rights and the ability to read. It is a debate, enter the debate to participate, or, sit back and read, smile or shake your head in wonderment at the ideas some people have, but remember, the same people aguing, can, and generally will offer advice, help support and humour at different times and on different days, stick around, enjoy the ride, you will storm away from the comp. in rage at times, but... :)

[QUOTE=annec]Someone said a while ago that forums always start off well and then degenerate. This is the first forum I've contributed to but it seems to be running true to form in that one or two people seem to delight in virulently attacking anyone else's mildly expressed view....
The shame is that I think it has an effect how the forum develops. Quite a lot of names I saw regularly a few months ago have disappeared. Maybe they are still viewing but don't wish to contribute in case they come under attack. So we're left with a one-sided debate and missing out on a lot of useful information.[/QUOTE]

Hear, hear.

It's just so easy to be aggressive or abrasive, often unintentionally so but equally often intentionally, on forums like these. What kind of "debates" do we want, I wonder idly?

All very well adopting the "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" approach - but what's the point if there's no-one left in the kitchen?

Particularly unedifying are the kind of professionally-inspired slagging matches a la the recent Charles Joseph vs Marc "I know more about buying property in Italy than you do" thread.

It seems this forum has really piled on the viewers in recent months. That's brilliant. So let's keep them interested, but just as important - confident enough to participate themselves.

Here endeth the lesson...

Mike Johnson

[QUOTE=EddieB]If we are all to 'play nice', though, maybe the following statement deserves a little reconsideration:
"If you ever find yourself on an aeroplane that has made an emergency landing, that has a disabled person on the flight, you will probably find your milk of human kindness drying up rather rapidly. A wheelchair becomes an obstacle to escape. Passengers already trample each other to death in their attempts to escape, a disabled person will, I suspect, not be treated any differently."[/QUOTE]

Why? It's a statement of fact. In fact it's one of the considerations that is made by aircraft designers when they design seating layouts and by airlines when they crate evacuation plans. It may not be palatable, but it's a fact of life. Literally.

[QUOTE=annec]This is the first forum I've contributed to but it seems to be running true to form in that one or two people seem to delight in virulently attacking anyone else's mildly expressed view.[/QUOTE]
Of course whose mildly expressed view is being virulently attacked is a matter of opinion. I tend to agree with Voltaire that "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it." However it's noticeable that a commonly expressed view nowadays is "I disagree with what you say, shut up or I'll take my toys and go home."

FWIW, I don't think anyone was actually virulently attacked or virulently attacking, some people disagreed about something. It happens. It only gets nasty when people get personal and I don't think that was happening either.

Not sure how a comment on the use of passenger planes by disabled people which contains the words 'probably' and 'I suspect' can be termed a statement of fact.
However, it is reassuring that catering for disabled people is important to aircraft designers and those working out evacuation plans.
I must say that people with disabilities are the passengers who cause me least personal concern; those who've spent too long at the bar come a lot higher on my worry list, along with those who feel the request not to use mobile phones on board applies to somebody else (have to admit, though, that pilot friends tell me they've broken that one without disaster).
However, I've had enough of this exchange (like everybody else, I guess) , and would prefer to avoid arguments which lead nowhere. I agree that Voltaire guides us well, so "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".

rgds
Eddie B

[QUOTE=GeorgeS]Anne, look at the beginning of this thread, I made a "humorous" reference to someone who'd said they needed, or would like a tan, suggesting that they take a cheap flight to Italy, that comment seems to have created an argument between a number of people over legal matters, disability rights and the ability to read. It is a debate, enter the debate to participate, or, sit back and read, smile or shake your head in wonderment at the ideas some people have, but remember, the same people aguing, can, and generally will offer advice, help support and humour at different times and on different days, stick around, enjoy the ride, you will storm away from the comp. in rage at times, but... :)[/QUOTE]

[color=black]George you are so right! Most of the time the disputes defuse themselves and can be quite a laugh. It's good to see things from different points of view, without getting to personal and anyway they get to shut up if it gets that bad. Don't go anyone it wouldn't be same with out you all and then become a little dull, especially you George you always make me :) or even :D .[/color]

Quote EddieB (have to admit, though, that pilot friends tell me they've broken that one without disaster) Mobile phone on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

How the hell did they get their pilots licence and for gods sake let us know when one of these idiots takes to the skies because I hope to god my family and I are not on their planes. :eek: :eek:

P

Further to discussion some time ago about Ryanair, I thought the following report of a BBC 'Watchdog' programme investigation from the BBC's website might be of interest:
rgds
Eddie B

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/reports/holiday/holiday_20051014_2.shtml[/url]
Ryan Air
14th October 2005

A group of six blind and three partially sighted passengers were made to leave a Ryanair flight because the airline claimed there were too many disabled passengers on board.
Watchdog was contacted by the group and decided to investigate. The group's organiser Katherine Hurst was aware the airline has a policy of maximum four disabled passengers per flight and called the airline before booking.
"I explained the situation," said Katherine. "I had a group of twelve - six blind, three part sighted and three fully sighted. [Ryanair] asked if we needed assistance and I said we would need no assistance as each blind person would have a companion and she said that was fine, as long as we needed no assistance form Ryanair staff there would be no restrictions and just to go ahead and book on the website as normal."
The group checked in at Stansted and boarded without a problem. But before takeoff they were told to disembark as there were already disabled people on the plane and that the airline could only carry four at a time.
"They took all the boarding passes off us and marched us down the steps of the aircraft into Stansted," said Beryl Barton, one of the group. "We were humiliated."
One member of the group was so upset that she went home. Some of the group flew out later that night. The remaining four slept on the airport floor. They were not offered food, drink or accommodation by Ryanair.
Ryanair claim their disability policy exists for safety reasons. But no British airline has a maximum on the number of blind people they can carry. Aviation regulations simply say that people with disabilities should not sit by emergency exits and there should be as many able bodied on board as disabled.
Ryanair doesn't have a great track record in dealing with disabilities. Last year cerebral palsy sufferer Bob Ross was awarded over £1300 by Ryanair and the British Airports Authority. He was charged £18 to use a wheelchair, a service which should be free. In response, Ryanair bumped up ticket prices to cover the costs of wheelchair provision.
Ryanair deny that they received a telephone call or complaint letter from Katherine Hurst. They also say the issue of compensation, food, drink or accommodation did not arise.
Useful links
Royal national institute for the blind
[url]www.rnib.org[/url]
The Disability rights commission
[url]www.drc-gb.org[/url]

Are you able o give me some good hotel names in the centre of dublin for my forthcoming visit?

So much appreciated,

[QUOTE=archvillain]Hey all! I've just registered and thought I'd say hello. I lived in Italy for a year and miss it so very much. Still dream (and plan) about going back!
Dammit I could really do with a mediterranean tan this year! :P[/QUOTE]

Mara
I don't usually stay in hotels in Dublin when I visit family and friends, though we used Bewley's Hotel in Sandyford/Leopardstown a few months back and found it comforable, clean, somehwat characterless and perhaps just a little expensive (we had a meal in the - quite decent - restaurant).
However, the Irish Tourist Board (Bord Failte) has a very useful site [url]http://www.ireland.ie/[/url] where you should be able to find accommodation to suit your pocket and preferences.
Visitors to Ireland (and Dublin, in particular) often find prices rather high, so be aware that you will not be likely to get too many bargains in the way of accommodation etc.

Two points which I think are worth mentioning:
public transport is improving, and the DART (Dublin Area Rapid Transit rail system) is very efficient. It makes staying in accommodation around Dublin Bay worth considering -- the rail journey around the bay is a pleasure in itself;
The Temple Bar area (I know Dubs who'd tell me 'It's just like the Left Bank in Paris, y'know' -- but only because they'd never been to Paris) is probably still best avoided. When I was young it was a pleasant backwater where you could stop for a quiet pint, but it became a sink for stag parties and the like, and remains (I understand) the haunt of those who believe a good night out must include vomiting in shop doorways.

Don't miss the Municipal Gallery, the new branch of the National museum, St Stephen's Green, and most of all a Sunday morning stroll along the Liffey and a pint in Ryan's of Parkgate Street. Have a pint for me, too!
rgds
Eddie B

[QUOTE=EddieB]When I was young it was a pleasant backwater where you could stop for a quiet pint, but it became a sink for stag parties and the like, and remains (I understand) the haunt of those who believe a good night out must include vomiting in shop doorways.[/QUOTE]

I work here and no Dubliner I know would venture into Temple Bar at the weekends, so I wonder where all those stag (and hen) parties are from?? :rolleyes:
The best value, good, walking distance to central Dublin, hotels would be Bewleys in Ballsbridge, The McEniff Grand Canal Hotel and the Trinity Capital. All roughly €100 (£65) per room per night.
Also, (my preference) take a look at the Schoolhouse Hotel, Northumberland Avenue, D4. It's by the Grand Canal and only a 10 min walk into town, it's small and has a great bar and restaurant (which I frequent on a regular basis!). Price is roughly the same.

Derek