1114 Problem villa

If the Agent is still in the UK - why not make a claim in the Small Claims Court? - its cheap [no lawyers - just advice from a solicitor] and its relatively quick and easy.

A friend of mine just got £7.000 back in a claim against a holiday firm, for failure to supply the holiday as advertised - seem to me you could take the same route.

Alan is right, the small claims court is the way to go. Do you have the name of the owner, are they living in Italy, or is it one of the semi fiddle operations many people seem to be setting up, I am certain that if it is legitimate, it will be registered with the comune and will have been certified as safe.

Thanks for the advice. And yes, we have the name of the owner

[QUOTE=alan haynes]If the Agent is still in the UK - why not make a claim in the Small Claims Court? - its cheap [no lawyers - just advice from a solicitor] and its relatively quick and easy.

A friend of mine just got £7.000 back in a claim against a holiday firm, for failure to supply the holiday as advertised - seem to me you could take the same route.[/QUOTE]

I find this subject somewhat disturbing not directly in the above posts but in general. I own and rent out various properties in the U.K. and abroad. I believe all to be of an excellent standard and be it long term or holiday let I always want my tenants to be very comfortable and enjoy themselves.

Through personal experience and problems related back to me by management companiesI have used I have discovered two things.

1) Some people cannot or refuse to be happy

2) Some people will moan purely to chance their arm and get either partial refunds or not pay an outstanding balance.

This is not to say there are not rental properties which are guilty of being below standard but if we were to take case against hotels which are in effect misrepresented by their web site or brochure we would have nearly every Italian hotel I have ever stayed in before a judge.

If you were to open up the floodgates for holidayers to make claims to the small claims court it would lead to many owners taking their properties off the rental market as they would become sitting ducks. Similar in my opinion to the "I have whiplash" syndrome having had a tap from behind in the car.

DerekM may well be a case of a "disaster" holiday of which I think we all have had our experiences over the years but also I believe people do tend to sometime blow things out of proportion.

Self catering holidays will always have some element of risk as to whether everything is to your liking but if you can rent a 3-4 bedroom villa maybe with a pool for £1,000 a week you cannot expect The Ritz. If you went as a party of 6 it works out at £23.80 per person per night.

My holiday in July was a five star hotel room for two at £400 per night half board which shows what value self catering can be.

However to encourage people to take people like me to the small claims court is incorrect. I know you will say "but if the person deserved it" and I agree there are guilty parties but there are too many people out there far too willing to try it on.

Regarding DerekM's problems I have no experience of Italian laws regarding rental properties but I doubt there are strict regulations if you can legally drive as they do!!

I do feel that if the agent is avoiding responsibility in even entering into an intelligent discussion with Derek, then he is fully entitled to be peeved. If, as it sounds, the place was sub-standard (at whatever price), then again he has the right to complain and seek compensation (for injuries if nothing else).

Furthermore, one negative experience can turn into a pr disaster, not just for the agency, but for the town/region as well - far better to pursue it, and thus show that the agent is reliable and professional, and that the region is in fact worth visiting.

I work in the tourism industry, and this is our peak season, and trust me, it really is amazing how truly insignificant things can become major problems for people and from Derek's description, this does not sound insignificant to me but rather something that should be addressed.

Martin, if the holiday was as described, and, the agent is attempting to avoid responsibility, then he deserves to answer in court. I am amazed that you have the nerve to jump in with youre first post defending this type of behaviour in such a high handed way, ohh, and "THEY" drive their way, what the heck has driving to do with unscrupulous agents... :mad:

[QUOTE=GeorgeS]Martin, if the holiday was as described, and, the agent is attempting to avoid responsibility, then he deserves to answer in court. I am amazed that you have the nerve to jump in with youre first post defending this type of behaviour in such a high handed way, ohh, and "THEY" drive their way, what the heck has driving to do with unscrupulous agents... :mad:[/QUOTE]

You obviously did nor read or understand what I was saying.

Yes, the agent or responsible party deserves to pay. I feel sorry for DereckM and never said otherwise. I was writing in as general sense of the matter.

My point was that there are two sides to the coin.

Whether it was my first post or not I have every right after a lifetime of self-employed work and investments giving me quite a bit of experience to write on the first subject that really interested me.

I find someone going to court and being awarded £7,000 for a holiday which was not as advertised somewhat disturbing but without knowing all the facts difficult to judge.

I was not and am not referring to any case here but for every dodgy landlord there is a dodgy tenant/holidaymaker who will jump at the first opportunity to make case over an honest landlord.

If you read both of my posts carefully you will see I am not being biased either way.

The line about Italian rental laws and driving laws was supposed to be humourous.

We go on holiday for an experence - a cut foot is not too seroius - a friend had a 12 foot iron and wood door land on her in high winds and was hospitalised for 5 days, had stiches in the back and front of her head. Did it stop us enjoying the rest of the holiday - no!

Why does everyone want to sue everybody!

Through much of my working life I came up against attitudes such as these, Martin, you are being biased, it's natural, you are putting your side, DerekM also has a point to make, a holiday which was not what was expected. He presumably did not rent from you, or, as you care about your clients, he would have had a superbly satisfying holiday experience... YOU are not qualified to judge the case, you do not have the facts, nor do I, there ARE two sides to coins, sometimes in these cases there are twenty sides... THAT is why there is a legal system, so that people who feel agreived can use it, and a judgement of the facts will be made. Throughout history disasters have occured which resulted in changes being made to protect peoples health and safety, wouldn't it be better if the changes had occured without people being damaged, however, because of your immediate attitude, "blame the client for being unhappy" people who can make the changes, won't because they continue blaming the damaged party, until they're brought to book, until they're sued etc., they will do nothing, that's why the advice is given to let the legal system take over, let a court make the judgement, which can always be appealed, right. After all, that's why you carry insurance, to bear the costs of litigation, you DO have insurance, don't you, because you know they?LL be fighting the case for you...
GlenB, if being hospitalised and receiving stitches didn't spoil the experience for you, then you wouldn't want to sue, would you ??? and "everyone" isn't suing "everybody else". However, action on your friends behalf MAY have made sure that the person responsible for securing the door actually did it properly the next time, or the design might be changed, and the next person passing in high winds might not be killed by the same door becoming dangerous...

[QUOTE=GlenB]We go on holiday for an experence - a cut foot is not too seroius - a friend had a 12 foot iron and wood door land on her in high winds and was hospitalised for 5 days, had stiches in the back and front of her head. Did it stop us enjoying the rest of the holiday - no!

Why does everyone want to sue everybody![/QUOTE]

Dear George,

You have still missed my point.

Glen above I believe understands.

You state that if Derek had rented a property from me he would have had a wonderful holiday. This is where my point in my very first post is. My properties are excellent and I am a professional but I have had many people over the years trying it on when they had no case.

You keep refering to Derek but my point has been about the £7,000 claim made by Alan's friend from whom we have not yet had any further contribution.

I don't like to see people being, for want of a better word "egged" on to go to small claims court for things which I would never dream, or I presume Glen.

I find your insurance dig insulting and childish. I am not where I am today by cheapskating.

Answer this George, how many whiplash cases are legitimate??????? I am afraid that you come across to me as a do gooder, human rights kind who is not living in the real world.

Once again I feel sorry for Derek if he did not enjoy his holiday but I personally would not be getting hot under the collar over a cut foot.

Another quick example. I fell on a steep step coming out of a restaurant (Milan) to return to my table having been to the lavatory. I had twisted my ankle badly, went as white as a sheet. The next night I went to A&E as the ankle ballooned up. Two days later as I was enjoying another excellent meal at the same restaurant and purely out of conversation showed the owner my ankle and bandage. He told me to sue him, he would fully co-operate and we could split the proceeds. I declined!!

Martin, you are behaving like a fool, the opposite to a do gooder is a do badder. I am a very experienced retired trade union official, responsible, while working for health and safety in the workplace... The post which started this thread, from DerekM refered to a person being injured while on holiday due, it seems to a failure of equipment supplied for his use during the holiday, he asked for advice, he was given good, lawful advice, you then came onto the thread criticising that advice using a set of cliche's plucked from the Telegraph and trying to disuade anyone from claiming anything when they are injured. You use the old standard of "how many whiplash claims are serious ?" I don't know how many are "real", I, personally have never claimed anything fraudulently, nor do I know anyone who would boast about it, then again, maybe I mix with the wrong people...
The other post came from someone who mentioned the figure of £7000 compensation, Martin, this figure was, apparently a sum awarded by a court in compensation for a holiday, awarded by a court, the facts had been examined, in court, it was not appealed... So, that would suggest the case was a sound one... My point about insurance was actually a VERY Valid question, I know how much it costs to carry the correct level of insurance, but, if you peruse many of the posts in this forum you will soon realise that many people dive into the rental business unprepared for the ancillary costs involved. The point is, Martin YOU STATED PEOPLE SHOULDN'T SUE PEOPLE LIKE YOU, but, if people like you give bad service, then refuse to discuss the matter, PEOPLE SHOULD SUE THEM. if you disagree, then perhaps you are not as superb an operator as you claim, after all is said and done Martin, isn't it the "Cowboys" who ruin it for the rest of you good guy's... :cool: FINI.

i happened to also work in tourism at one stage of my life..... the owner of my company at one stage on watchdog..... because of stupid claims..... he reckoned any publicity was good publicity...i believe he was one of the first holiday company owners to face down the dreaded anne..... in reality it worked...people that search around for the best value/cheaper option instead of using thomsons ...or whatever will often find they are risking things...

i understand also that there are exceptional circumstances to everything...a door getting blown off in a high wind cannot be accounted for.... george... you are rapidly loosing my sympathy in your arguements here.... should i have titanium door hinges fitted then a hurricaine machine brought on site to test the efficacy........ and after that double the rental price because of the costs involved ... or maybe cotton wool supplied at the time of deposit would be better....

thankfully life in the past had its risks..... and we all accepted small accidents as part of life... nowadays as has been validly stated by martin everyone is out to sue over everything ... ... i would not also wish to coment on the situation in the original starting post and do not wish to trivialise or suggest in any way they are making trivial claims....but in general i can understand martins case.... and as a ex trade unionist i can understand where you come from.... but i believe he is making a good and valid point about life these days..... and i moved here to get away from that sort of stupidity of being scared to live in case you get sued for farting

Thanks Will,

John, I don't need your sympathy, I didn't get locked out most of the night, nor gash my foot, nor have any of the other things happen to me, they happened to DerekM.
I am simply trying to state a perfectly simple solution to the problem, if the guy who took the money won't deal with you in a sensible way, put your case before the small claims court and get a decision. End of conversation, then we get a post from somebody who seems to have recently tailgated someone else, found out he's going to have to pay his excess for a whiplash claim and seen a chance to vent some spleen...
Happy Daze... ;)

will... getting right off the point and sorry to original poster... really you most probably have a good point and i in no way wish to demeanour your point..

i think you are wrong..... you can get occaisonal gusts anywhere in the world of winds in access of norm.... if you build buildings to account for this no one will be able to afford to buy in italy.... there are enough complaints about people not being allowed to do their diy thing here... basically because they do not have the knowledge... not necessary in england ... to enable them to build to comply to earthquake standards.... however these standards are set to the norm.... and would not take into account the risk of a major exceptional quake beyond these norms....

in the good old days children fell off bikes and did not sue the manufacturer because it only had two wheels... or god forbid the big M for serving hot coffee.. well at least they call it coffee....

so we have busy doctors... crowded hospitals... and a legal system unable to cope.... and thats just here in italy... there are serious problems.... and i am not saying everything which protects us now is bad... but laws are made to account for everything ...its up to people to exercise common sense in regards to claims and what is unfortunate and what is avoidable.... these days it seems that mis fortune can be sued for.... wasting both time for doctors and lawyers... everything has a cost.... if it isnt apparent it doesnt mean it doesnt exist... so again i say if your cabin hook breaks in a gust of wind is it your fault that you didnt put in a more robust one or is it just that this couldnt be accounted for....

George, as you wish to resort to calling me a fool we shall agree to disagree and I will continue to believe that you cannot understand where I am coming from.

I think it has also been influenced by the fact you are an ex trade unionist and I an entrepeneur. It is always going to be difficult that we would think alike on many things or that you were going to want to understand my point of view.

However I will wish you a very nice weekend and look forward to sparring with you in the future on another subject.

[QUOTE=martin ware]George, as you wish to resort to calling me a fool[/quote]
Actually he didn't.

[QUOTE=lotaresco]Actually he didn't.[/QUOTE]

Steve,
When somebody says, "you act like a fool" does that not imply that this person thinks you are a fool? I think, only a fool can act like a fool; he does not have to be a permanent fool, but a transient one at times will do.

What say you?

Actually the phrase was "behaving like a fool", really, people should look at the first post in this thread and judge whether the advice given was correct..
Any way, back to my unreal world, the Italian one I think, where almost everyone wears a smile, the sun is shining, and, life moves at a gentler pace :D

And they have accidents, get locked out and get on with life - probably getting to know the local locksmith!

[QUOTE=GlenB]And they have accidents, get locked out and get on with life - probably getting to know the local locksmith![/QUOTE]

Indeed they do, and, if they have a problem they resort to the law, FREQUENTLY, but, if what happens to them doesn't bother them, they simply get on with their life, helping one another along and generally being pleasant.

More than that - those that dont winge - and get to know the locals actually find they have more friends

Integrate not segregate

[QUOTE=GlenB]More than that - those that dont winge - and get to know the locals actually find they have more friends

Integrate not segregate[/QUOTE]

Indeed, and the local people rarely carry along a niggle, in typical Italian style, they bring their prejudices out, have the row, then have a drink, it seems to be uniquely English to hang around sniping for some reason, most of us left that behaviour in the schoolyard where it belongs, some carry it on to adulthood, I can't think why... :)

[QUOTE=GeorgeS]Indeed, and the local people rarely carry along a niggle, in typical Italian style, they bring their prejudices out, have the row, then have a drink, it seems to be uniquely English to hang around sniping for some reason, most of us left that behaviour in the schoolyard where it belongs, some carry it on to adulthood, I can't think why... [img]http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif[/img][/QUOTE]

George,
Judging from your post above, you have not left the sniping at the schoolyard; in fact, I think you are a good sniper, and I mean this as a compliment.

[QUOTE=FrancisM]Steve,
When somebody says, "you act like a fool" does that not imply that this person thinks you are a fool? I think, only a fool can act like a fool; he does not have to be a permanent fool, but a transient one at times will do.

What say you?[/QUOTE]

I be eeken to a sayinge thatte an person may bothe acte liken to a fool and yet notte be a fule! So saye I Brother Francis!

I knew you were old Francis, but I didn't realise that your speech habits had formed in the 13th Century, until now. Anyway as George as pointed out he didn't say that anyone was acting like a fool either. There seems to be (once more) a desire on the part of some people to act outraged over what they *thought* someone said rather than what they did say. Always a bad move IMO.

[QUOTE=will]Martin - I'm sure the forum would be facinated to know..... Where exactly ARE you today?....Is it still the £400 per night hotel room you boasted about in earlier post? Or are you referring to somewhere else......?[/QUOTE]

I had earlier missed this little jibe. I certainly was not boasting as I would consider it reasonable at the price. It was purely to make a comparison.

As you asked I have just returned from a lovely day out at Southwell where I had some lovely winners and as they say "the winners go home laughing and telling jokes".

I generally enjoy celebrating the race courses of England and find myself able to do so having spent a life where holidays and strikes were not an option.

I suppose that is where my dislike for parasites of society looking to damage the good and honest comes from. Was the behaviour of certain people in Heathrow Airport last week not just so thoughtful towards the British public looking to take a well earned holiday.

[QUOTE=lotaresco]I be eeken to a sayinge thatte an person may bothe acte liken to a fool and yet notte be a fule! So saye I Brother Francis!

I knew you were old Francis, but I didn't realise that your speech habits had formed in the 13th Century, until now. Anyway as George as pointed out he didn't say that anyone was acting like a fool either. There seems to be (once more) a desire on the part of some people to act outraged over what they *thought* someone said rather than what they did say. Always a bad move IMO.[/QUOTE]

[size=2]The verb "behave" can also mean "perform", or "act" for that matter. I found this in my 13 century thesaurus. What say you now?

As far as my use of the English language is concerned, it is really not that bad, considering it is not my native tongue.
[/size]

:) MARTIN, YOU'RE BACK, Already... And telling us all how wonderful you are, again... You really are lucky to be you, aren't you. :D

I knew you would miss me George. I must say you are an early riser. Is that so you can be down on time to gloat at all the criminals in the dock in the small claims court? :D

Now, I'm off to Windsor for lunch and an enjoyable day at the track.

I'd gladly give you a tip but I fear it would not be of any use.

I'm sure you can have just as enjoyable day and organise a strike or two :rolleyes:

When I used to work I was up much earlier, or the "Boss Class" would have had me thrashed, or, worse still thrown me out of work, my family would have starved, the cardboard box which we were grateful to be allowed to live in would have been taken away. BUT, since I retired and came to live in Italy full time, I get up when I need to, of course as we are an hour ahead of the UK, it must seem I am up early...
Couldn't use the tip, no betting shops here, probably wouldn't be capable of understanding how to gamble otherwise.
You aren't too good at understanding terms like "Retired" are you Martin...Moved here to avoid the TU movement Martin, but, that's another story, much like the story of the "Entrepreneur" who spent 6.5 million of his company's money on his own birthday party a few years ago, ohhhh, what was the name of his company. ahh yes Gate Gourmet... Ohhh, the cost of the high life. :rolleyes:

Francis, thank you for the compliment, you should see some of the people I trained :D :D

[QUOTE=martin ware]I find someone going to court and being awarded £7,000 for a holiday which was not as advertised somewhat disturbing but without knowing all the facts difficult to judge. .[/QUOTE]

Sorry about the delay in responding - work got in the way. The £7000 was approximately 60% of the total cost of the holiday, and consisted mainly of the courts assessment of the 'loss in value' as calculated by my friend. eg - things like reduction in value of flights through bad booking [1st Class reduced to Business Class'], Failure to provide hotels with facilities as advertised [5 star down to 3/4 star], lack of private cars to pick up my friend at airports to take to hotels, etc etc..]

I am not a lover of the 'litigation society' that we are moving towards, however - if you don't get what you have paid for, there must be some redress. Obviously my friend tried to reach a suitable agreement with the Agent, but he denied any responsibility.

Martins response [as an Agent] to my original posting was interesting [methinks he doth protest too much]

However, anyone who sells something [be it an aardvark or an appartment to rent] has a duty to ensure that it is fit for purpose [not just believe it is]. If he doesn't ensure it is OK - by checking, or having checks made - then he runs the risk of a 'Claim' if things go wrong.

Alan,
Was this award paid by the responsible party? I was once awarded $107,000.00 in Superior Court, but never collected a dime.

[COLOR=Red][I][I][COLOR=Orange][QUOTE=alan haynes]Sorry about the delay in responding - work got in the way. The £7000 was approximately 60% of the total cost of the holiday, and consisted mainly of the courts assessment of the 'loss in value' as calculated by my friend. eg - things like reduction in value of flights through bad booking [1st Class reduced to Business Class'], Failure to provide hotels with facilities as advertised [5 star down to 3/4 star], lack of private cars to pick up my friend at airports to take to hotels, etc etc..]

However, anyone who sells something [be it an aardvark or an appartment to rent] has a duty to ensure that it is fit for purpose [not just believe it is]. If he doesn't ensure it is OK - by checking, or having checks made - then he runs the risk of a 'Claim' if things go wrong.[/QUOTE][/COLOR]
I am not a lover of the 'litigation society' that we are moving towards, however - if you don't get what you have paid for, there must be some redress. Obviously my friend tried to reach a suitable agreement with the Agent, but he denied any responsibility.[/I]

Martins response [as an Agent] to my original posting was interesting [methinks he doth protest too much][/I][/COLOR]

Welcome back Alan. Just one thing you got wrong, my response was not as an agent but as a property owner and honest business man. However having seen some more facts from your friends case I would agree there were certainly grounds for litigation.

Really, I don't protest too much. Whilst I believe in what I say I was honestly just enjoying a bit of banter with George.

However Alan thanks for your humourous response and valid discussion regarding this subject and for the record in my entire professional and private life I have never been sued, never sued anyone and never tail ended anyone although I have been tail ended myself. :D

[QUOTE=FrancisM]Alan,
Was this award paid by the responsible party? I was once awarded $107,000.00 in Superior Court, but never collected a dime.[/QUOTE]

The Agent paid up - he ignored the court order to pay the £7K, [they often seem to do so], so my friend wrote to the court and they issued a Baillif's Warrent [or something like that], and the Agent paid straight away, rather than have his goods seized. The whole process was very quick - took about 2 weeks from him writing to the court about the non-payment.

One other thing about the Small Claims Court is that some people think thay can delay things by not turning up at court to contest a claim - the beauty of the system is that if you don't turn up you are assumed [if you are being sued] to be pleading 'guilty', and judgement against you is [almost] automatic.

[QUOTE=alan haynes]The Agent paid up - he ignored the court order to pay the £7K, [they often seem to do so], so my friend wrote to the court and they issued a Baillif's Warrent [or something like that], and the Agent paid straight away, rather than have his goods seized. The whole process was very quick - took about 2 weeks from him writing to the court about the non-payment.

One other thing about the Small Claims Court is that some people think thay can delay things by not turning up at court to contest a claim - the beauty of the system is that if you don't turn up you are assumed [if you are being sued] to be pleading 'guilty', and judgement against you is [almost] automatic.[/QUOTE]

[size=2][size=1]In the USA, the court rendering the judgement does not care whether or not it is ignored by the party who is liable. They basically expect you to bring another case to the courts for non-payment of the judgment. It is a never ending cycle; most people finally just give up. One of my judgments of $1,033,463.00 dollars is now worth, on paper, over 10 million dollars, at 10%/year interest. But, it is totally meaningless, because the bum-lawyers all disappeared, after running into trouble also with the State Bar. And, no authority is interested to ensure judgements are respected and paid.[/size]

[size=1]In the infamous O. J. Simpson trial, nobody collected a dime from him, although the civil judgement ordered him to pay restitution. He his living the good life, while laughing at the courts.[/size]

[size=1]It appears that the courts in your country know what their responsibility is, unlike the courts in the USA. [/size]

[/size]

I never cease to be amazed at some of the "strangeness" around in the legal system in America, who knows, maybe one day the powers that be over there will be less obsessed with playing politics over judicial appointments, and, actually, errrm, overhaul the system. I was aware of the difficulty of getting the money once it was awarded, it is many of these awards which lead certain people to make the "litigation society" claim, it is far easier to get the court's orders enforced in England, the order issued to have the settlement paid, could, perfectly legally, have meant that goods and chattels would be removed from the agents premises, and sold to make the amount of the settlement.

To tail this Post off, we have had a success. The agent, when presented with images of the property, agreed we had a case and has given us 1/3 of our money back. So, it is always worth making a complaint if things aren't up to scratch. But it's not about the money, just the principle of not being ripped off and ensuring someone takes responsibility for sub-standard goods.

The postscript to all this is that the agents are going to sue the owner of the villa... it appears there have been other complaints about that property as well.

Good News Derek, pleased you were satisfied in the end, although I suspect you would far rather have simply had a good holiday...

We've lived in our present house for 13 years and apart from the usual blown light bulbs and trouble with the heating I dont think any of us have been injured!Thats despite 2 of our own children and 3 nephews!

We used to rent out a house in France or Italy when our children were younger and have experienced all sorts of mishaps including water pouring in through stone wallsand fusing the electricity and rubbish plastic chairs snapping in half.
The problem is that so many builders and house owners are sloppy and use cheap crappy equipment.There's loads of talk in these forums about Ikea and buying stuff from it as its so cheap! My experience with that shop is that you may get stuff that looks ok ish but it just doesnt seem to stand up to the sort of abuse its going to get in a holiday place.

If owners won't spend the time or money on quality building, furniture and fittings then then can expect to be sued.Its just no good saying that the house only works out at £20 a night if 6 share its not just the money its the time that you need to take into account!

We have bought a lovely house in Abruzzo to restore for rental so I have an interst in this forum :)

Thats a very good, and valid point, I haven't destruction tested any Ikea furniture, so cannot attest to it's durability, but, when constructing furniture for rental properties, it is wise to consider possible abuses, although most people will treat the property with respect, there will always be the odd one's who wont... So, remember, fix the Pebble print firmly to the wall with an Italian made fixing and if possible use shatter proof plastic to glaze it... ;)

[QUOTE=manopello]We've lived in our present house for 13 years and apart from the usual blown light bulbs and trouble with the heating I dont think any of us have been injured!Thats despite 2 of our own children and 3 nephews!

We used to rent out a house in France or Italy when our children were younger and have experienced all sorts of mishaps including water pouring in through stone wallsand fusing the electricity and rubbish plastic chairs snapping in half.
The problem is that so many builders and house owners are sloppy and use cheap crappy equipment.There's loads of talk in these forums about Ikea and buying stuff from it as its so cheap! My experience with that shop is that you may get stuff that looks ok ish but it just doesnt seem to stand up to the sort of abuse its going to get in a holiday place.

If owners won't spend the time or money on quality building, furniture and fittings then then can expect to be sued.Its just no good saying that the house only works out at £20 a night if 6 share its not just the money its the time that you need to take into account!

We have bought a lovely house in Abruzzo to restore for rental so I have an interst in this forum :)[/QUOTE]
i couldn't agree more manopello,there is a certain impression ,and i may be wrong ,of the philosophy of (massima resa,minima spesa) or rather max. earning from minimum expenditure in these things.We have spent,and continue to spend a lot of money on what may seem trivial details like toilet roll holders the nice looking chrome ones we bought and had fixed ,revealed themselves too weak for the toilet paper grabbers ,we are now taking them out and having them replaced by chromed steel,double attachment ones which appear to resist the efforts of even the most determined of trashers.
Anyway ,personally i don't care for Swedish design if you know what i mean....