11066 Winter Weather and relocating

Just sharing with you something I came across on Friday morning and posting also for the benefit of any potential Italian house purchasers who may be lurking on the forum. I was in an electronics store not far from here late last week buying a new dishwasher. I'd noticed the British registered car in the carpark and whilst waiting to pay, the owners appeared. I would have known they were British for they were both wearing lightweight almost summer in appearance clothing. Outside it was 8 degrees, slight mist, drizzle. We got talking, they weren't all that happy. They bought a house nearby in the early summer and had just moved in planning to live here permanently. They mentioned the lack of things to do, how they had been spending their days trawling around the shops, in particular they were complaining about the weather, more especially the cold and the damp and fact that it had been raining virtually without break for two weeks. They assumed this was going to be a short lived thing and that mild sunny weather would return soon. The look on their faces when I told them it could be like this from now until March was something I shall never forget. It won't be (we hope!) but there have been years when it's rained for months on end in southern Tuscany and they were mortified when I told them this too.
Please anyone reading this and thinking of selling up in the UK and moving here, I can only speak for Tuscany but we do have real winter weather in these parts. You will need an effective form of heating in your house and if you're not used to living in the countryside (and so many of people in the UK aren't) be warned that it can be very miserable out in the country with the incessant rain and cold. (And that's before you take in to account making friends, language issues, etc.) Irrespective of your circumstances, do please ensure that you see the area you are planning on moving to for at least three months over the winter period, ideally renting first. And do your homework, lots and lots of it.

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General chat about Italy

Very wise advice.
It nevers ceases to amaze me how so many people assume that Italy enjoys constant warm sunshine all year round! So many think it rains /snows / gets cold only in the Alps and Dolomites, they forget about the Appenines running down the centre and just how high they are, not to mention the bitterly cold winds that can blow in from the Balkans! When you point out to them the extremes of temperature we experience every year they just look at you as if you are obviously mad and despite having lived here for 9 years and they are enjoying their two week summer holiday, they clearly know what they are talking about and you are clueless!!!!!!!!!

What can you say? :rollingeyes:

There have probably been Brits who moved to Florida and were then hugely surprised when their first hurricane hit.

One my surprises when researching moving to Italy was discovering that the annual rainfall and minimum winter temperature maps in my Royal Horticultural Society Encyclopedia of Gardening showed that large areas of central Italy have a climate – in those terms, anyway! – roughly comparable to that of Glasgow.

You've been here a lot longer than my two years, Violetta, so I'm not disputing your statement that it can rain for weeks on end, but my experience so far is that, yes, there are wet, cold, windy, generally miserable days – even weeks – here on the eastern slopes of the Apennines in Abruzzo, but usually those periods don't last too long before the sun comes out for at least a few hours and makes everything a little more cheery (even if it still is a bit soggy and chilly). That is what, to my way of thinking, makes winter in my current home much more pleasant than it ever was when I lived in central Scotland.

Having just looked at the detailed weather statistics for [URL="http://www.gaisma.com/en/location/london.html"]London[/URL] and [URL="http://www.gaisma.com/en/location/florence.html"]Firenze[/URL], I was again surprised to learn that the annual precipitation in London is significantly less than that in Firenze (629mm and 829mm, respectively) and the average number of days with precipitation in the period November to March is not that different: 14.3 for Firenze and 12.6 for London.

Those figures, of course, do not tell the whole story. One of the major differences in the climate of London and Firenze during the months from November to March is that the average insolation (the total amount of heat received from the sun) in Firenze is twice that of London. This indicates that the sun shines more often in Firenze and it feels much warmer when it does put in an appearance.

So, yes, as your experience indicates and as the new kids are learning, the statistics show winter in Tuscany and many other places in Italy can be miserable at times but, on average, it's a bit more miserable in London and a [I]lot[/I] more miserable at points further north in the British Isles.

Still, it's perplexing that the transplanted Brits you encountered were surprised by the sometimes dismal reality of winter in Tuscany. It seems to me that looking at temperature and rainfall statistics is something that any rational person would do before deciding they wanted to live permanently in a new area. These days, it's not at all difficult to track down that sort of information.

[quote=AllanMason;104409] It seems to me that looking at temperature and rainfall statistics is something that any rational person would do before deciding they wanted to live permanently in a new area. These days, it's not at all difficult to track down that sort of information. Al[/quote]

This begs the question as to whether people (or at least some people) are in fact rational. Because even if you have the information, you then have to believe it - and it seems to be quite easy not to believe if it contradicts the 'dream'.

It's like the visitors we sometimes get, who (despite strenous warnings about the weather), insist on arriving in November with a suitcase full of tee-shirts, shorts and bikinis - and then spend their time with us standing directly in front of the [I]stufa[/I] saying "I know you told us, but...".

Our first Christmas here, we received no end of calls or cards from friends back in the UK saying things like ‘I’ll bet you’ll be spending Christmas day on the beach!’ or ‘I expect you’ll be having a BBQ for Christmas lunch’ They were all surprised to hear we were snowed in, and huddled round a log fire.

As you say do your reseach!

Agree with all of the above, and add that the thing that has surprised me the most is the sometime ferocity of the winds. And that's all year round. Took me a while to realise why plastic chairs around a swimming pool can disappear overnight!

[quote=annec;104413]Agree with all of the above, and add that the thing that has surprised me the most is the sometime ferocity of the winds. And that's all year round. Took me a while to realise why plastic chairs around a swimming pool can disappear overnight![/quote]
Compared to Scotland, there's hardly any wind here and a typical day has a breeze, if that. In the heat of the summer, it's fairly predictable that we will get a wind from the direction of the Adriatic late in the day, but most of the time the speed of the wind and it's direction seems completely erratic and unpredictable to someone who has always lived in a climate where there are definite prevailing winds.

As you say, sometimes the winds are ferocious. Last night, for example, we were awoken at around 3am by the arrival of the Sirocco. In the dark, it is disconcerting – actually rather frightening – to look out the window and see enormous, ancient oak trees thrashing around like mere shrubs.

The temperature rose about four degrees during the night and the day started solidly overcast with the rain pouring down. However, as if to prove the point I made above, an hour or so ago, the clouds parted, the sun appeared and we now have scattered clouds in a blue sky with sparkling clear air that allows us to see clearly the blue of the Adriatic 30 km away.

There are much worse places to live in the winter.

Many British people moving to either Italy or Spain think that they are going to live in an eternal summer. It is obvious that they do not research sufficiently the destinations and they do not realise that in each one of this countries there is a wide variety of climates, not to mention micro-climates. Still, the weather patterns may be more favourable than in certain areas of the UK, but you should not move only because of the climate, unless there are some health reasons which recommend this move. But then, look at latitudes, general weather patterns, visit the place both in summer and in winter and then, when you have all your facts worked out, decide whether it is a wise idea to move or not.
As Violetta recommends, try to rent first for a while unless you know very well the region. And take into consideration issues such as language, friends, entertainment, isolation, family.... Many things to consider before taking the plunge and making yourselves miserable.
Italy is a place to enjoy, not to endure.

I agree with all thats been said (thats a first!) , also what surprises me is visitors who walk around inside in chilly weather wearing t shirts and bare foot complaining of the cold, when we have the stufa going but are wearing the usual indoor wear for chilly days of bobble hat (just joking) warm sweaters, furry slippers and socks.

Today after rain and high winds the sun has come out and its lovely , even if for a short time, perhaps this is the difference even amid bad weather here we do get sun and it is possible to be outside and enjoy it, on a recent trip to the UK it rained for 4 days and was dark and gloomy, its the lack of sun that does it everytime for me.
Talking to other friends that live out here we do agree especially if you live in a rural environment that you do have to be used to your own company, and to enjoy it, and it cerainly wouldnt suit alot of people , however much they are caught up in that "dream"
A

We arrived in Puglia in December 2005, and whilst we did not expect an "eternnal summer", we were taken aback by how cold the house was, even on a warm sunny day. Central Heating which had been low on our priorty list went to the top, and now we are very glad that we have termo-camino and central heating in the evenings.

Here in Puglia we are lucky enough to get a lot of sunshine through the winter months, Nearly every day it's possible to be outside, walk on the beach, work in the garden, often warm enough to sit and read in a sheltered sunny spot. Any rainy windy days are balanced by lots of sunny warm days when we can still be outside ..... but, even on a warm sunny day, it does get cold late afternoon and at night. But winter here is definitely better than winter in the UK, and it doesn't last as long!

With all the resources of the internet now available you would think that people might undertake better research and think a little more deeply about their own situation before taking the plunge of buying.

As I'm single the idea of being far out in the country has never struck me as a good idea, nor the necessity to be reliant on a car to do anything. I'm happy enough with my own company, today for example I'm having a quiet one as alI football in Piemonte/VdA has been called off, but if I need to I can take a 5 minute stroll into town for an apperitivo. It would be nice to have a garden to potter about in, but I make do with hot peppers, basil and tomatoes on the balcony.

As a skier I was under no illusions as to the weather I was letting myself in for here in the mountains!

When we started to look for a house here in the late Spring five years ago, we couldn't believe the road signs which showed snow chains/warnings of ice etc. We just thought it was a joke... how wrong we were. At 500m. we are sometimes snowed in and we certainly know what weather is now but the choice between the brightness of the light here and gloomier UK I know its the former everytime.

And in the present economic climate I know I prefer to be here than in the UK where 'spin' and 'news gloom' seems to be adding unnecessarily to the very obvious real difficulties that many are suffering.

I've just come in from a long stroll in the countryside enjoying a couple of hours of glorious sunshine in between the showers and after last night's storm. Al's right, the heat of the sun even on a winter's day, is very powerful here and I fear I did possibly paint an overly dark picture of what our winter weather is like. We've regularly had Christmas drinks outside over the years and so long as you're sheltered from the wind it can be pleasantly comfortable. But then I think of numerous days on which it's been so cold - too cold - I haven't wanted to walk out to dinner (only 5 mins away) or even get out of the car on some occasions! And there have been many Novembers and Februarys when it's rained practically each and every day. We had snow last Easter, May was a rain soaked right off too. Yes, the light is far, far brighter than in the UK, the incessant greyness and gloom nowhere near as bad, thank goodness. Then, when the sun does shine - as it did this afternoon - it's truly bright and the countryside looks beautiful beyond belief. I just feel it's important that anyone planning on making the move from the UK, isn't motivated purely by what's often an inaccurate view of the local weather. V

ps: I think I've posted before on this but you know Rome receives a higher amount of rainfall than London? I couldn't believe it when someone told me this but when you next have nothing to do, check the stats for yourselves. Quite incredible.

[quote=Aretina;104428]And in the present economic climate I know I prefer to be here than in the UK where 'spin' and 'news gloom' seems to be adding unnecessarily to the very obvious real difficulties that many are suffering.[/quote]

Oh absolutely, Aretina, it was such a relief to be back for last week in London it drove me crazy, it's all you hear or read, it's all people talk about. But, at least where I was, people were still spending. I was "sucked" in to M&S at Marble Arch on the Thursday they had their 20% off everything except food and it was sheer and utter bedlam with people buying up everything in sight. I left and went off for a drink leaving my girlfriend waiting 20 minutes to pay!

Agree with everything posted previously! It has always amazed us that people do not understand that Italy has cold and wet weather. In fact it still has real seasons, perfect.
If you want heat and sun all year this is not the place for you! As has been said previously with a warm fleece on and sitting in a sheltered spot it is possible to feel the heat of the sun all year.

Yes I agree with posts our house has taken about 48 hours to warm up and it's only November.
I always advise anyone thinking of moving here to rent first and include at least one winter before buying a permanent residence - having said that on New years day I have sat for 4 hours on the terrace reading, in only a light jacket overlooking the glorious Lake Albano.

And another thing: be prepared for the power to fail at the merest hint of a storm. Four hours without electricity last night and thunder so powerful all the pictures on the wall and things on tables rattled. Can someone explain to me the connection between storms and power outages and how does it suddenly come back up again? I have visions of a little man in an Enel van driving around the countryside in the middle of the night in the pouring rain fixing pilons but this isn't the case, is it? We live in a village, note.

It is interesting how different the weather is the nearer you are to the mountains. We have friends in Penna San Giovanni (about 25km nearer the coast) and last winter they were bemused when we said we couldn't get the car out to get to their house because of snow. I think they thought we were pulling their legs as they were in lovely warm sunshine with no sign of snow.

We definitely think the weather is sunnier on the other side of the Appennines. We've experienced it many times. It will be overcast here in Amandola and when we get over the crest of the mountains it is sunny. You can see the clouds forming and where they stop and it is often this way round.

Mind you my husband is from North Yorkshire so it is still warmer here :winki:

Both my son and husband are night owls, often not retiring to bed until 5, 6 or even 7am. Yesterday morning they both checked the outside temperature (about 5am Italy time, 4am UK time). Here in Puglia it was 15 degrees, in Northumberland -5 degrees. I'm glad I'm here:yes:

[quote=Violetta;104495]Can someone explain to me the connection between storms and power outages and how does it suddenly come back up again? I have visions of a little man in an Enel van driving around the countryside in the middle of the night in the pouring rain fixing pilons but this isn't the case, is it?[/quote]
I believe the reason you have electricity outages during storms is due to either wind or lightning causing problems which result in part of the electricity supply system being shut down to protect it.

Wind will bring trees into contact with power-lines and this will cause an overload on the circuit as a major surge of current goes to ground via the wet branch and trunk. What happens is the same as would occur in your house if you grabbed a live wire while in the shower: the circuit breakers trip. It's just that ENEL's circuit breakers are a lot bigger than yours and they carry the electricity supplied to large areas.

Lightning causes ENEL's big circuit breakers to trip for another reason: a lightning strike on or anywhere near a power-line will cause a surge of current on the line.

I think it's unlikely that there's a man driving around in the middle of the night resetting the circuit breakers in electricity sub-stations, but rather that someone (or maybe a computer) in a central control point decides when the storm has passed that the danger of further surges and overloads is past and a signal is sent out to turn the power back on. The main breakers tripping will protect the system from major damage, but the brief spikes that occur before the trip don't do the equipment any good. There's also a strain on the electricity generating end of the system if large parts of the country are all, in effect, switching on and off rapidly and repeatedly.

It's all too easy for those living in Britain to forget just how much hassle is saved by having virtually all local power-lines underground.

[quote=AllanMason;104580]
It's all too easy for those living in Britain to forget just how much hassle is saved by having virtually all local power-lines underground.
Al[/quote]

This is also a rural-urban issue. I lived for many years in a rural upland area of Britaln where power-lines were above ground, and power cuts were frequent in times of electrical storms and high winds. So were power surges - these were particularly good at killing off cordless telephones.

Cuts and surges are little more frequent in our part of Italy, even though we have considerably more frequent electrical storms and more violent wind and rain.

[quote=bosco;104581]This is also a rural-urban issue. [/quote]

Indeed. I used to work for a leccy board - in an office in IT - but was still aware of what was going on outside. In the 1987 hurricane and its aftermath, for example, it was all hands to the pumps. Thats why we'd have a right to prune and lop trees which were a threat to our lines, and the stats on rural OH line outages were watched like a hawk.

I was without electricity for 9 days after the hurricane - not impressed with the electricity workers efforts and I was living in Godalming in leafy Surrey at the time.

Out here we have frequent mini power cuts where the power goes off and back on immediately but has bu99ered up all the settings on electrical items, you reset everything and …plink it does it again!

Back to relocating, I am surprised by the number of people who don’t appreciate that living in rural Italy can be a bit of a challenge. If you live in a picturesque old place with no central heating you are going to have to get dirty and cut logs, light the fire etc. Also those charming old wooden shutters and doors can let a howling gale through the house. Those lovely thick stone walls take an age to heat up and can be very damp. A house which may seem to be a rural dream for a holiday in the summer can be an absolute nightmare in the depths of winter.

Totally agree with the Damp Comment. It takes all Summer to dry out your walls and then Autumn comes and your back to square one, especially if your neighbours house in the village is unoccupied for 11 months of the year. Still you do get a satisfied feeling from chopping logs and firing up the Stuffe. We've just had 4 solid days of wind. rain, hail and snow; but I wouldn't swap it for life in the UK anyday, or any weather.

[quote=pgerrard;104590]We've just had 4 solid days of wind. rain, hail and snow; but I wouldn't swap it for life in the UK anyday, or any weather.[/quote]

Absolutely, same here. Besides which, we lived and worked for years in a part of the world where we didn't have any seasons at all, it was either hot or very hot, so despite being kept awake two nights' running by thunder and currently sitting here with hot water bottle on lap whilst writing in effort to keep warm, love the changes that the seasons' bring. When I comment here on the climate, it's generally merely observations, not complaints. And even though it has been dire the last fortnight, at least long hot summers are virtually guaranteed.

Thanks Al for v interesting explanation re relationship between power outages & storms. And my comment re man in Enel van driving around the countryside climbing pylons was tongue in cheek!

Bosco, You are absolutely right. We live in England in North Yorkshire and last year had at least 5 power cuts, some lasting for several hours. Over the last few years we also have also had a power surge which finished off quite a few bits of electronic equipment including the central heating control panel- not good news in December! In Lunigiana, we haven't experienced any power cuts to our knowledge and have had some bad storms. I suspect it is also due to the fact that in privatised industries (as in UK) the level of maintenance including checking the condition of trees nearby to overhead lines is zero!

[quote=Nielo;104588]I was without electricity for 9 days after the hurricane - not impressed with the electricity workers efforts and I was living in Godalming in leafy Surrey at the time.
[/quote]

In that case I don't think you appreciated the scale of the problem. We called in convoys of linesmen from the Irish Republic. I personally got to work by bicycle as all the roads were blocked by massive trees and I could pick the bike up and climb over them!

[quote=Nielo;104588]Those lovely thick stone walls take an age to heat up and can be very damp.[/quote]
I have vivid and not-so-fond memories of living in a Victorian terrace flat in Scotland that remained damp all winter (i.e. most of the year), not least because the only installed heating in the place was old-fashioned, open coal fires which seemed to suck more heat up the chimney than they put into the room.

I don't find our current home damp at all, although it does have metre-thick stone walls. Is it possible that this has something to do with the outside being covered in concrete render? Do those lovely exposed stone walls that every Brit looking for a place in Italy visualises when they think of their dream casa actually let moisture penetrate all the way into the house?

I do agree on the former point though: we have found that it can be a problem heating up that huge mass of masonry if you go away for a while.

My husband had a damp-proofing and plastering business in the UK prior to coming here (yes - he's a man of many talents!) and is pretty amazed at the damp in all the buidlings here and the fact that people seem happy to live with it. He says much of it is made worse by salt contamination which sucks moisture up from the ground or in from outside.

There are things you can do about it but most people don't want to be told to rip all the plaster off the walls of their finished house!!

Those lovely 1m thick stone walls are perfect for insulation both in summer and winter. There are other problems that can cause damp and also make the house difficult to warm up and those are the ones which should be investigated. Lack of double-glazed windows, poor roof and ceiling insulation, total lack of insulation in some outside concrete jobs, same with some plaster applied..... We have to check every bit of the house and fix the problems, otherwise we are spending fortunes and effort in heating a house.
We did all the right things, had our heating connected to city gas (much cheaper than gas bottles and far much more convenient) and now the old mill, even if it is on the river bank gets warm in less than half an hour and then we have to lower the thermostat so that it would not be too hot inside. The mill is over 200 years old, thick walls throughout... the typical old Tuscan construction, but it is a pleasure to live in. We are still sorting out some problems with damp in the lower cantina, the one that is directly on the river, but it is almost right now after ripping off some plaster walls which were creating quite a few problems.
So don't blame the old construction. Possibly some later additions or bad renovations are the real culprit.

[quote=sueflauto;104606]In that case I don't think you appreciated the scale of the problem. We called in convoys of linesmen from the Irish Republic. I personally got to work by bicycle as all the roads were blocked by massive trees and I could pick the bike up and climb over them![/quote]

My house was all electric. We had gas central heating but the pump was electric so for 9 days I had no heating, no hot water, no method of cooking, no washing machine, no lighting etc etc.

In order to get my kids to school in some state of cleanliness I was getting up at 5 am to light the BBQ to heat water so we could wash. I was cooking for a family of 5 on a single ring camping gas stove and doing the washing by hand in cold water. I did not have a car so I walked the kids to school and I walked to work.

I know the electricity workers were shipped in from all over but I still think 9 days was a very long time to find the fault and rectify it. The rest of the neighbourhood had their electricity restored in 4-5 days. I also believe the electricity workers were paid, where as I wasn’t so I’m afraid I am still not impressed.

We find the the combination of our metre thick walls and closing the shutters on the windows certainly ensures that we keep heat in in the winter and out in the summer. (We live in the shade for most of July & August but prefer it that way and at least we remain cool.)
A question though: two rooms at the rear of the house actually back on to a hillside. They were recently renovated with damp courses installed, properly plastered or whatever needed to be done. But these rooms are ones that we use mainly in the summer plus we were not able to extend the gas central heating to this area. Italian friends are nagging me to buy those dehumidifier contraptions that you plug in to the mains. What do you reckon, are they effective?

Yes, Violetta, the dehumidifier works but it has a problem. It must be switched on all the time and it consumes a lot of energy. Perhaps you should look again at the possibility of extending the heating to those rooms.

As I feared, thanks Gala. We have a fabulous antique wood burning stuffa that we would like to use up there but we need planning permission to install a chimney, etc. so it'll have to wait until next winter.

Lest we all forget; most of us live in houses that were built before central heating, double glazing etc were even dreamt of (ours is approx 600yrs old). Most houses had large wood burning fires in every room and the inhabitants wore lots of clothes. Another reason to do your research before you buy a house; visit the chosen area in winter. Tuscany though, to my knowledge, has always been wet, cold and damp in the winter.

[quote=Gala Placidia;104643]Yes, Violetta, the dehumidifier works but it has a problem. It must be switched on all the time and it consumes a lot of energy.[/quote]
Definitions of "a lot" vary, of course, but our dehumidifier (a portable job bought from Castorama for €99 last year) is rated at only 235 Watts.

The dehumidifier has a sensor which detects moisture in the air, so you can either have it running continuously (if you really want to add about €1.50 a day to your electric bill and you enjoy a house with an atmosphere similar to that of the Sahara) or you can set a knob so that the thing only switches on when humidity reaches a certain point. While ours is left on all the time, it's "on" only in the sense that our central heating is "on all the time"; it definitely does not run constantly, but rather only starts up when the air gets a bit muggy.

The built in reservoir holds 6 litres, but you can connect a hose and have the water collected drain away. If the weather is really humid and we've been putting additional moisture in the air by bathroom and kitchen activities, the reservoir can fill up in less than 24 hours, so the thing is definitely not some sort of silly gadget. It does work.

Bear in mind that the electricity that the thing uses is mainly turned into heat and the only place that heat can go is into the air of the room it's in. Because it's not drawing a lot, it's certainly not like running a fan heater, but it does help warm up the place a little.

We bought the electric dehumidifier last year when we got fed up with mildew growing in our bathroom and discovered that the stupid calcium carbonate flake dehumidifiers were all but useless. I was sceptical at first, but now I'm a great fan. We've not seen a speck of mildew in the bathroom since and it just makes the house a whole lot nicer to live in during the winter when you can't open windows and air the place out very often.

Sounds effective Allan - Could you tell us what the make and model is?

[quote=AllanMason;104649]Definitions of "a lot" vary, of course, but our dehumidifier (a portable job bought from Castorama for €99 last year) is rated at only 235 Watts.

Al[/quote]

Would endorse all that Al has said re the dehumidifier as it matches exactly our experience. Ours is a DeLonghi DEC 12 - bought it a few years ago. It is definitely not an electricuty gobbler and does rasie the room temp a couple of degrees.

Obviously, dehumidifiers have changed a lot in energy consumption since the last time I had one, which was a real electricity gobbler. I'll have a look at Castorama next time we are in Lucca.

And perhaps I'll try one after all as the one I've seen is in the same price bracket as Al's. Off to buy it in a minute on what is (at last!) a gloriously sunny day here in southern Tuscany. Thanks again, Al.

[quote=Luce Dell'Amore;104678]Sounds effective Allan - Could you tell us what the make and model is?[/quote]
The badge on ours says "Delchi", but it was (like just about everything these days!) made in the PRC and we have seen identical machines bearing different brand names.

The plastic mouldings of [URL="http://www.castorama.it/prodotti/artI243.php"]this one[/URL], for example, are identical to ours, but it has a different badge and two additional lights next to the knob. Since the specifications are the same as ours, I think it's likely the internals are identical.

I'm looking at a Castorama catalogue titled "[I]Guida riscaldamento[/I]" which we picked up a couple weeks ago. It lists three dehumidifiers. One is ours. Another sells for €10 less but has a water capacity of only 2 litres, which I think is silly and would get annoying quite quickly. The third is a Carrier brand machine which is priced at €245, has a power rating of 280 Watts (compared to 235 for ours) and can supposedly extract 16 litres every 24 hours while ours can do 9 litres in the same period.

Personally, I think you're paying something extra for the brand, but the Carrier might be a better choice if you've got water trickling down the walls. In terms of initial expenditure, it would actually be cheaper to buy two of the Delchi machines, but if the performance figures are accurate, the Carrier would be more cost-effective in the long run.