11090 Image of Chianti in England

Chianti? Isn't that a wine you get in Italian restaurants, the one that's always sold with pretty wicker baskets around the bottle? You know, the wine that Italian restaurants in England always use the empty bottles to put candles in, and the red wax drips down the neck and onto the wicker basket so it doesn't get onto the check tablecloth? I think you can drink it as well, but the Valpolicella is just so much cheaper!

[Sorry about that - couldn't resist a bit of ancient social history, even if it does show my age.]

[quote=Stuart O;104633]Dear All
I have to give a short talk soon, which has to cover the image of the [B]Chianti area in Britain, [/B]or perhaps wider. If I say the word 'Chianti', what does it mean to you? Any of your thoughts/impressions/insights would be gratefully received.
Thanks in anticipation
Stuart[/quote]

I am confused!

Are you asking about a Chianti area in Britain? How the British view the Chianti wine? What the British think of the Chianti growing region of Tuscany?

Sorry but could you please clarify?

Do we have anyone on the Forum who lives in the Chianti? You would think so, wouldn't you, bearing in mind how many English speakers do live in the area. Earlier in the autumn, even living around here, I hadn't heard an English voice for a couple of weeks. Then we stopped by the Sunday market in Panzano in the Chianti and the place was literally overrun with Brits, Americans, Australians even. Heard this Aussie woman yelling at the guy on the fruit & veg stall, "Gimme some of that bearsall. I wan' some bearsall." And astonishingly the guy understood and gave her a bunch of basilico. Which is now referred to always in our house as, "bearsall"!

I think he's talking about 'Chiantishire' - that well known area in Italy where Brits go to get the sun, but without having to make an effort to integrate into the Italian way of life, as they have imported England there

It has its own advertising websites, such as
[url=http://www.chiantishire.org/index.htm]Chianti Shire[/url]

Newspaper coverage
[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2002/oct/13/buyingpropertyabroad.property]Looking for a house in the country? Try Chiantishire | Money | The Observer[/url]
[url=http://www.italiaplease.it/eng/megazine/giroditalia/rieti/]Chiantishire - in and around Montevarchi — ItaliaPlease[/url]
[url=http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1495046.ece]Chiantishire rises in protest as ‘tide of cement’ pours over land - Times Online[/url]

and its a place to avoid if you want to see the true heart of Italy [IMHO]

i was told Tuscany was "chiantishire" because it's the costa del sol of Italy, where Brits and Americans can live without being bothered by Italians.
Thats why I chose not to move there. Having said that when I have visited Tuscany I have never seen a fish n chip shop or a brit pub so maybe it's not as bad as it seems.

It's lovely, the countryside's beautiful if a bit too wooded for my taste and, of course, wonderful wine everywhere. Best bit though is the location as most villages are so well positioned for getting in to either Florence (if you live in the north) or Siena (further south). Beyond hearing lots of English voices and the newstands selling a good supply of English newspapers year round, there's no visible evidence of the area being overrun with Brits and we're there quite often. We're going up in a couple of weeks to buy some wine for Christmas and I'll report back on what it's like out of season for invariably in winter you don't even see/hear that many English speakers. There are lots of Dutch there too, and Germans as well as Americans.

Incidentally, it may be sunny today but UK temperatures!

[url=http://meteo.corriere.it/meteo/citta/previsioni/greve_in_chianti.shtml]Greve in Chianti: meteo e previsioni del tempo. Corriere della Sera[/url]

mmmmmm. I see the cynics are about.
Chianti is a DOC area classification for a wine; the region being to the North East of Siena. It is a very popular area with Expats from all over the world; which has resulted in higher than average property prices. However the area still remains unspoilt by enlarge, and is the flatter area of Tuscany. The majority of Tuscany is nothing like this area as it is affected by the Apennine Alps, and is more mountainous; oh and less pretentious.

Thanks very much for responses so far - more welcome - everything, however banal or sophisticated, will be a help in this very unscientific survey.
Sorry if the original message seemed ambiguous - I thought it was reasonably clear but perhaps I was wrong. I was trying to leave it a very open question so as not to limit or steer people's responses down a particular route. I will rephrase it:

Dear All
I have to give a short talk soon, which has to cover the image in Britain, or perhaps in the wider world, of the Chianti area. If I say the word 'Chianti', what does it mean to you? Any of your thoughts/impressions/insights would be gratefully received.
Thanks in anticipation.
Stuart

I lived in Siena for 8 years, and apart from the crowds of tourists (yes a lot of Brits but not only) almost all year round (a small lull in Dec-Jan ), I agree that there is no evidence of a British invasion in Chianti. My opinion - stunning, magical countryside, amazing food and wine, endless cities, towns, villages to visit (all offering historical and artistic interest), great climate. Can you tell I miss it?
good luck with your talk!

Stuart, in return may we ask what your own opinion is of the Chianti? Presumably you have a good knowledge of/close connections with the area? V

Dear Violetta, and other helpful respondents,
In fact I don't know the Chianti area at all. I have driven through it, but my visual impressions are all muddled up with those of Sienese hills. Nor do I have a good understanding of the wine: I used to think that Chianti was a rough red, good but not sophisticated, although the bottles on English supermarket shelves now tell a different story.
My own connections with Italy relate to a relative buying a small house in Umbria almost twenty years ago. This has been our main holiday destination ever since, and more recently has also been the base for some research I have been doing on changes in the area after WW2. I therefore know a lot about the Umbria-Marche Appennines, but much less about other areas.
Thanks again for your comments
Stuart

[quote=Stuart O;104701]In fact I don't know the Chianti area at all. I have driven through it, but my visual impressions are all muddled up with those of Sienese hills. Nor do I have a good understanding of the wine: I used to think that Chianti was a rough red, good but not sophisticated, although the bottles on English supermarket shelves now tell a different story.[/quote]

Scenically so different, we live in the latter and it's unrecognisable from the Chianti. Re the wine, I've long felt it's virtually impossible to buy good Italian wine anywhere in Britain unless you know a specialist wine merchant. And as someone at Berry Bros & Rudd was telling us the other week, there's a dwindling demand as a growing number of people prefer either recognised French appellations or acquire a taste for the New World.
The Chianti we drink today in Tuscany today has improved in quality beyond all measure to the stuff we remember in raffia bottles 20/30 years ago both here and in the UK. And many producers are diversifying and producing wines under the label of Super Tuscans. The cynic in me says this is fuelled by the American market and their almost insatiable demand for anything Italian. But it does make for more interesting drinking for the rest of us, assuming we can afford some of the newer blends.
I don't wish to appear rude but you don't feel a visit and some firsthand experience would be helpful in advance of your talk?

[QUOTE=Violetta;104704}I don't wish to appear rude but you don't feel a visit and some firsthand experience would be helpful in advance of your talk?[/QUOTE]

Surely that depends on the subject of the talk - if the talk is on impressions of Brits (including those who haven't been there) then why would you need to visit. I have done academic research on destinations and at times want to compare impressions of people who have been with those who haven't or compare the perceptions people have before and after visiting, or compare their impressions with mine when I do research in the field. More important (if it were to be a scientific study - which we are told it isn't) is not to have people seeing what other people think so we come up with the raffia wine bottles ourselves rather than by being prompted.

Interesting topic.

Chris

I remember the fiaschi and the dripping wax, but my overall impression of Chianti wine isn't a favourable one. Whereas for example I remember Alois Lageder 1982 Cabernet Riserva, or Masi's Campo Fiorin I've never had a memorable Chianti whose name I noted for later: tell a lie Campo dei Sassi was good for the price some years ago. By and large Chianti to me means a fairly anonymous, if obviously Italian wine. It's actually a DOCG now, not a DOC, but the regulations used to allow up to 10% white Malvasia (IIRC) and it's significant that the "super-tuscans" marketed as vino da tavola to avoid being restricted by the regs. Have never been able to afford the latter, so can't comment on their quality. I just assumed they were drunk by the sort of people who could afford holidays in Chiantishire in posh villas with infinity pools!

Somebody commented about not getting good Chianti in the UK apart from specialist merchants. I haven't tried much here (still investigating my local area :-) ) but wouldn't be surprised if the same wasn't the case.

[quote=herealready;104645]i was told Tuscany was "chiantishire" because it's the costa del sol of Italy, where Brits and Americans can live without being bothered by Italians.
Thats why I chose not to move there. Having said that when I have visited Tuscany I have never seen a fish n chip shop or a brit pub so maybe it's not as bad as it seems.[/quote]

Quite different from the Spanish "costas", although some, such as our town in the province of Lucca, have strong historical links with the British. I must tell you that we are fully integrated with the locals, speak (or try to speak) Italian all the time and there are no fish n' chip shops or similar gathering places around. There are some British and other English-speaking residents in the area; however, their numbers are limited.
As for Tuscany in general, every region is different. We are in the "green Tuscany" area, or "Toscana Verde" a beautiful place with fantastic scenary and a great microclimate, much milder than other places within the same region.
Regarding Chianti wine.... there are some good ones and some awful ones. But there is a great variety of other wines produced in Tuscany.
And the cuisine and regional products are superb!

Gala,
Please tell me more about your microclimate.
My wife really fancies south of Rome (we were impressed with Formia) where the cactus and lemons grow but how is it there?

Bagni di Lucca has a very mild climate. Winters are cold, but not terribly cold. It does not snow. Summers are cooler than in other places, mainly because of the breezes coming from the river. When it is 38º in Florence and steaming hot, we enjoy much lower temperatures and need a light blanket at night in the middle of August.
Rain tends to fall during winter time.
It is all very green and the landscape is breathtaking. You can see some photos in my album, just go to my member's site, it is open to everybody.
You can have more information through: [url=http://www.welcometuscany.it/tuscany/lucca/garfagnana/bagni%20di%20Lucca.htm]bagni di Lucca village Garfagnana tuscany tourists web guide travel tips tour operators resources tuscan search engine[/url]
or
[url=http://www.valdilima.com]Val di Lima - The guide to Bagni di Lucca and around - Start here![/url]
or simply do a Google search.

Just in from having nipped up to the Chianti to stock up on vino. Stopped in two towns, Greve & Panzano, shopped in both, had lunch in the former and didn't hear a single British voice in either. Only visible sign of Brits was, as I've mentioned before, the huge selection of British newspapers and magazines in the newsagents. Countryside dull and depressing on a greyish winter's day, the trees on the heavily wooded hillsides bare of leaves, as always, we were so pleased to get home to the beautiful open landscapes further south. The area honestly cannot be compared with somewhere like the Dordogne or several other departments in south west France where Brits are highly visible, en masse, all year round.

ps: dead posh shops though. Not just the infamous Dario at Panzano but most of the butchers in Greve too have their own websites! Take a look at this one: [url]www.falorni.it[/url]

Just a quick report back, particularly to those who replied to me in the first place. I gave my talk, in Greve in Chianti, in mid-December, and it went OK I think. I'd been asked to talk about l'immagine della zona Chianti in Inghilterra as part of the presentation of a book whose production was sponsored by the Societa' di Mutuo Soccorso of Greve. I understand that locally there is an appreciation of the role that the influx of Brits (and others) played in the 1960s in the regeneration and salvation of wine production in the area, after the crisis in local agriculture that had been deepening ever since the 1920s. For this reason they were keen to have a contribution from a British academic. In the current economic climate there is a good deal of concern about the prospects for tourism, and lack of clarity about what must be done to continue to draw people to the area.

The book, for those who might be interested, is 'I "neri bianchi". Mezzadri di Greve in Chianti tra lotte sindacali e fuga dalle campagne (1945-1960)', by Leo Goretti, published by Odradek (ISBN 88-86973-93-4).

I talked about my own personal history as a sort of symptom of the British relationship with the Italian dream, about my own research and the contrast between the Chianti area and the area where I have been doing this (Umbria/Marche Apennines), and about perceptions of the Chianti area from the British perspective as revealed by my unscientific trawling around forums and websites and canvassing all my family and friends.

Staying in the Chianti area for the first time, I was really struck by the intensity of the wine and olive oil production and the way this dominates the landscape. It's so different from 'my' Italy, where other crops are far more important.

Thanks again for your thoughts
Stuart

Thanks for the feedback. So many people ask for advice on forums and then you never hear from them again.

The concern for tourism is echoed where I am, in the Alps, where skiing, hydro-electric and associated industries have brought in income to a formerly very poor area. This year is bucking the snow trend but there is a realisation that the lower resorts will suffer in the future. The financial situation also impacts summer bookings: a student of mine who is a hotel administrator hosting UK groups was giving me her declining figures the other day. Just hope she keeps coming to English lessons as the £/€ level is helping nobody at the moment!