Angie and Robert's activity

Most people around here are paying a euro per litre, James who is the company you get your gas from?

This has been posted by Robert not Angie –              Penny – When I said that M5S only won 28% of the votes cast it was said in the context of Ram’s statement  ‘I find it deeply undemocratic that his party which took 28% of the vote wants absolute power’. No single party won more votes as we know but, still, having 72% not vote for you is hardly a basis for  going it alone.             My post was about how Grillo’s personality and style puts me off M5S. This arrogance and unwillingness to compromise or engage in dialogue is another example of what I dislike about him. Grillo obviously is not  the whole of M5S but he is a very distinctive part of it in the way that Berlosconi is of PdL. Grillo is founder, main spokesperson and leader (or so he is usually described) and so is bound to influence people’s view of M5S, either for the good or the bad.  Anyway on this particular point, not making alliances in government with other parties,  I think M5S are in agreement with him are they not ?             I am sure we all agree that Italy badly needs solutions to its problems and I sincerely hope they find it.  I sometimes think that I would like to be more positive about M5S’s ability to produce this solution but for the reasons I am sceptical.  

posted by Robert not Angie This was reported by ANSA (ANSA) - Bari, January 18 - Italian comic and political gadfly Beppe Grillo called for the end of labor unions at a meeting of his anti-establishment Five Star Movement (M5S) on Friday. "I want a State with balls. Let's throw out the unions, which are an antiquated structure like the political parties," he said. "Companies need to be made up of those who work". Grillo, who has slipped from second to fourth in the election race amid claims of an autocratic leadership style, is on what he calls his "tsunami" political tour for the February vote.

This has been posted by Robert not Angie -  Penny – I seem to have read so much about Italian politics over the last few weeks that I really can’t remember where I saw the statement about abolishing the unions . I think it was an English language site , probably either the Guardian or BBC. If I find it I will let you know. Gala – Like you I don’t really trust or have much faith in Grillo either. When I first read about him a couple years ago I thought he was interesting, speaking a few home truths that Italy really needed to hear. But the more I found out about him the less I liked. His whole style is very off putting to me. The angry rants, the insults, the often rather stupid jokes. Seeing a piazza full of people chanting Duce ! Duce ! – whoops, sorry, Be-pe ! Be-pe ! is disturbing to me.             Likewise with M5S itself I thought at first that all these supposedly bright young people involving themselves in politics was fairly encouraging. But when you consider that, bright or not, they were inspired to get active by the afore-mentioned foul-mouthed ranter then they look less appealing . Earlier in this post people discussed whether M5S was a youth movement or not . Well when you consider that it is inspired and led by a 64 year old ( twice the average age of M5S deputies apparently ) then that really can’t be the case. Besides I seem to remember that many of Mussolinis earliest supporters were young people so age doesn’t really mean much in this context.             Dialogue and compromise are central to the democratic process ( however imperfect it may be) but neither of  those words seem to feature in Grillos vocabulary.  As Ram says he has only 28% of the votes cast ( I thought it was 25% but am happy to stand corrected ) which means that 72% didn’t vote for M5S. Even more if you consider the 30% who didn’t vote for anybody. Hardly a ringing endorsement by anybodies standards. So perhaps a bit of humility needed , but that’s another word that Grillo has little time for I would say !  

I meant of course 'Comparisons would inevitably be made to Italy’s history in the earlier part of the LAST century'.  

This has been posted by Robert not Angie -              Grillo says he wants to abolish all trade unions in Italy. Not reform them or curb them but abolish them. Does anyone else find this as alarming as I do ?  Whether you love unions or hate them I suspect there are few people reading this who would want to deny people the right to join one if they wanted to. This is a fundamental right in any free country. This is a very extreme and authoritarian measure and if Italy does abolish them it will be in the same camp as some of the most unsavoury regimes in the world.             Tolerance of unions is often seen as a litmus test of a country’s commitment to freedom, human rights and so on. If  Italy did this then it would be excluded from all sorts of  international agreements and organisations, including I imagine the EU. Italy would be marginalised and lose prestige and influence in the wider world. It would cause alarm bells to ring in many countries who are Italy’s friends, allies and partners. Comparisons would inevitably be made to Italy’s history in the earlier part of this century.               Is all this Grillo’s intention, if so he should say so. Or has he not thought it through, in which case you might want to call into question his judgement .

Just an observation,in our village in rural Marche the vote went 50/50 Grillo/Bersani, but then our neighbour always said "I am a man of the left". Berlusconi got a few paltry votes....the voters will be hiding from the bar crowd tonight!.

I hope Flip is right on his safe bet.

Dont know where you are in Italy but here in Marche and elsewhere we have a very active facebook page which deals with re-homing animals, and we have had much success, can you pm me more details please.

We use Pegas here in Marche, always very helpful with am excellent service.