12048 New law to allow 20% extension of house size?

Very good - better get my extenison built before midday!

Is this so that they can provide more living space for migrant spaghetti harvesters?

I wondered if the proposal's origins lay more in the need for extra space for storing the rich bounty of fish that is available at this time of year - but it's all over the local press too [URL="http://www.corriere.it/politica/09_aprile_01/piano_casa_berlusconi_3601c8d6-1ea3-11de-9011-00144f02aabc.shtml"]«Piano casa, 60-70 miliardi in circolo» - Corriere della Sera[/URL]

you all (other than Marc) appear to be suggesting that the guardian article is an April fool joke? If so, I think you are wrong - not only was the article published yesterday, but I'm pretty sure this is a genuine initiative, ostensibly aimed at helping the Italian construction industry & the wider economy by creating demand for house renovation/improvement.
[url]http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/building-renovation/11949-gov-stimulus-building-industry.html#post114199[/url]

Its all true - sorry to say.
If you have a property that is not in a centro storico, or has vincoli you will be able to add 20% of the volume with only a DIA. If you knock down and start again and are green in your construction you will be able to add 35% of the volume. Its going to be a nightmare! BTW The Guardian on twitter is surely the april fool?

yup, it's been in the news here for a while now. The cosidetto "piano casa 2009".

I thought that it had always been possible to increase by 20%. I've heard of estate agents using that as a selling point outside of protected areas.

yes, we used the allowance last year to add an extension. I think this is on top of that, though.

Sorry Ram, I didn't realise that you'd already posted this info.

I'm gratified that other people think that I'm mischievous and witty enough to publish this as an April Fool's joke though!

[quote=juliancoll;115060]How would anyone know? :bigergrin:[/quote]

Hey - nothing has to make sense in this beautiful country :no:

[quote=Marc;115076]

I'm gratified that other people think that I'm mischievous and witty enough to publish this as an April Fool's joke though![/quote]

I wasn't sure Mark (I mean I'm sure you have it in you, :winki: but that it was a fool) hence the note of caution in my post :laughs: I was also sceptical that the Italian press would co-ordinate a pesce di aprile. That said, in its own right it is yet another great Berloscherzo of a proposal.

Well how beautiful will it be when everyone can put on these horrible extensions.Haven't we got enough concrete already?

Keep it small is what I say ! And made out of lime!

My understanding is that the commune does not give planning permission for these expansions and that they will be "self certified" by a geometra or architect so I wonder where that leaves you with neighbours adding on monstrosities ? ? ?

However I suppose no one will know how it will all work until the law is approved.

As of today the piano casa is: Building up to 20% of volume without a concession edilizia but with a DIA will be permitted for single and bifamiliare houses even if terraced, BUT outside centro storico and sites of special interest. It seems that to get the full 20% you must use bio technology and energy saving materials - though if there is no concession granted nobody will ever check on the building, so I reckon there will be a vast amount of breezeblocks being thrown aound in the next year or so. If you knock down an entire building and start again, using green materials, you can gain up to 35% of volume. Here in Sicily Lombardo is promising also to allow 'regeneration' of centro storicos which is a recipe for disaster. Berlusconi also wants to give a push to the newbuild industry for first home owners - so that means ugly cheap flats being built everywhere. It is, in my opinion, one of the worst thought through, reflex pieces of legislation ever introduced by Berli. The latest addition to this madness is that if you knock down and rebuild an abusive building it will suddenly become ok - though its not clear whether you will be able to increase the volume by doing so. Its not as if they arent mixing enough cement already - so I think we can assume that Berlusconi has bought alot of shares in Prontomix and wants a quick profit.

I do not see much difference in terms of quality, between a "self certified" (by a professional, not by the owner) DIA and a project approved by the Comune's planning committee. Have you ever seen a building that was rejected because it was "ugly"? No!! If the volume calculation and the heights are within the limit and the hygiene regs are met, anything gets approved in Italy, hence the horrible architecture that we are surrounded by. So, the problem is not the DIA, but who designs the building or the addition - so be aware of who you employ to do this.
Berlusconi (who has many other defects!) is not responsible if you employ a geometra (a surveyor!) or another unfit professional (such as a “perito agrario” - agriculturalist ) to design your house.
By the way, the “abusi edilizi” - unauthorized buildings are not included in this possibility.

The proposals at the moment are roughly as ram says, but now the regions have 90 days to work out the details of how the 'new rules' will be applied. That'll no doubt stretch to 120 days, and then there will no doubt be a couple of years of transition...so I wouldn't hold your breath for living long enough to see any changes! Meanwhile expect half the country to be designated centro storico, or vincolato in some other way.

[quote=Charles Phillips;115142]The proposals at the moment are roughly as ram says, but now the regions have 90 days to work out the details of how the 'new rules' will be applied. That'll no doubt stretch to 120 days, and then there will no doubt be a couple of years of transition...so I wouldn't hold your breath for living long enough to see any changes! Meanwhile expect half the country to be designated centro storico, or vincolato in some other way.[/quote]

I laughed out loud when I read this -- but isn't this why we moved to Italy..???:smile:

PIANO CASA - The details and simplifications:

A DIA for extraordinary maintenance whill not longer be requested under the new decree, nor for change of destination, for paving of external areas, including parking, and for a series of other works which will become 'liberi'. It is one of the simplifications contained in the draft of the Piano Casa which should get approval from the Regions . The text will be discussed before Easter.

The new laws have the objective to accompany Regional laws and be adopted within 90 days, and therefore to assist the 20% increase promised by the decree on cubic metrage, and the plans for demolition and reconstruction. The text contains various simplifications, and will be accompaied by a law with more structural measures, starting with the cancellation of the permission to build.

For the 'ampliamento di cubatura' (the 20% more) all that will be needed will be a 'denuncia di inizio attività' the DIA - which will also include underground works to the sides of the property, but not on the access side - with the limit of an increase of 20% of the overall volume.

Actually the DIA is necessary also for extraordinary maintenance, while 'edlizia libera' will include removal of barriere architettoniche, and underground 'research'. Also all works inside the property which do not affect the overall cubatura will become un-notifiable including, movement of earth for agriculture, temporary open deposits for goods and materials, emergency works, change of destination without building works, paving of outside areas, installation of solar panels and tanks for LPG. the only formality requested will be a communication to send to the Comune within 30 days of the finishing of the works ' to show the legitimacy and effect of the same'

A larger impact will be the new laws on authorisation 'paesaggistiche'. . Once a destination has been released the Sovrintendenze will not be able to annul it, only express their opinion.

Could you explain what authorisation 'paesaggistiche' is pls?

Thanks

As I understand it, if the comune decides that an area of outstnading natural beauty can be built on, the Sovrintendenze (Beni Culturali) can do nothing apart from complain. But we await further clarification this week - there is always the chance that Napolitano won't sign it!

I think it is too early to state what you can and you can't do and if you need a DIA or not. This will create confusion at a later stage.... Let's wait and see the final text and how this will be adopted by the various Regions. I believe the matter is not over yet and there will be suprprises!

How or will this affect the need to have representation by a Geometra? I realise that it's early days and the proposal is not yet law but would be interested in opinions.

[quote=Poetica;115745]How or will this affect the need to have representation by a Geometra? I realise that it's early days and the proposal is not yet law but would be interested in opinions.[/quote]

A far as I have followed the proposals - and I agree with marco that until the DL or whatever has been published we are all whistling in the dark - there are not proposed any signifigant 'opt outs' from using a geometra (or architect) as direttore di lavoro.

Maybe doing a patio or manutenzione ordinario will be able to be signed off by the proprietario (as can be done today), but any more substantial works will need a technico abilitato. This isn't a conspiracy against 'foreigners' - it is simply about Italian comuni not employing 'building inspectors', but depending on private 'experts' to comply with the norms. England (under Thatcher) tried to move in this direction - but it didn't work.