3631 A Way Forward?

Thank you for this Anastasia, I would like to ask George the fact that Tinks posts are getting through, as he is keeping to the rules of the forum, if he could now be allowed to join us without being moderated, If he cannot, how long will it be untill he can?

[COLOR="Red"][/COLOR]Fran, you're welcome.

I understand what you are refering to in your post above, but many others may not. Would it be possible for you to post again here and explain what your concerns are within this thread, so that everyone viewing this thread will have a clear understanding? We all know it's not easy to do this, but I'm sure we can try again.

Not everyone chooses to read every post and it will lead to confusion here.

In fact, this is a [B]perfect example [/B]from both of us how it can happen! :D :D

We should perhaps think of this thread as if everyone, including the webmaster has no other knowledge of any other posts relating to other threads. They will only have to read this thread to understand clearly what any concerns are.

[COLOR="red"]UPDATE[/COLOR]: Fran has now updated her post above, but I'll leave this one here as another example; cross posting can cause unavoidable confusion sometimes. :eek:

The "Way Forward" for the forum, is for all forum members to post within the rules, and, remember that people can be hurt by being attacked in text form, if a forum member is asked to change the way they are posting, they should give some thought to making changes to the way they post.

In the event of them being placed on any form of sanction, they should really use this time to reflect on whether they would wish to carry on being a member of the forum, and, again decide how they could change their posting habits.

Eventually, if the Admin. of the site makes the serious decision to ban the poster, they really should have the class to simply accept the ban, again review their posting habits and contact the administration with a view to returning.

It really isn't too difficult, but, there are some people who will not, ever accept that they have a responsibility for running their own lives, they then cry foul everytime something happens which they disagree with, and, so far as the forum is concerned, they then create other identities and try, yet again to blame the administration, and demand their earlier identity's return, it can be quite humorous at times to see a brand new I.D. come onto the site dive into the circolo read the "all mods are *****" posts then start a campaign...

Much, much easier to simply post in a reasonable and generally polite manner remembering that this is a site for Lovers of all things Italian, as opposed to lovers of "Fight club"

[QUOTE=GeorgeS]The "Way Forward" for the forum, is for all forum members to post within the rules, and, remember that people can be hurt by being attacked in text form, if a forum member is asked to change the way they are posting, they should give some thought to making changes to the way they post.

In the event of them being placed on any form of sanction, they should really use this time to reflect on whether they would wish to carry on being a member of the forum, and, again decide how they could change their posting habits.

Eventually, if the Admin. of the site makes the serious decision to ban the poster, they really should have the class to simply accept the ban, again review their posting habits and contact the administration with a view to returning.

It really isn't too difficult, but, there are some people who will not, ever accept that they have a responsibility for running their own lives, they then cry foul everytime something happens which they disagree with, and, so far as the forum is concerned, they then create other identities and try, yet again to blame the administration, and demand their earlier identity's return, it can be quite humorous at times to see a brand new I.D. come onto the site dive into the circolo read the "all mods are *****" posts then start a campaign...

Much, much easier to simply post in a reasonable and generally polite manner remembering that this is a site for Lovers of all things Italian, as opposed to lovers of "Fight club"[/QUOTE]

just look at the latest news from ITALY.

how can you use the words "all things ITALIAN" and not include fight clubs?

Thats what they do, in sport, in politics,and in life.

I agree its better to be as polite as possible, but that is at times,only a
diplomatic way.It does not show what people are really about.

ITALY is a passionate place,and the people speak their minds, which i for one
agree with.

Its far better to have the truth out in the open, than have people around
you who are two faced. Which one do you want? i would take people who
are open and frank about their opinions,over those who are two faced, and
come across as diplomatic in their approach......

SPEAK THE TRUTH SOD THE CONCEQUENCES

Yes Gio, I do agree with you this forum is suppose to be all about all things Italian, and we all know how passionate the Italians are, thats why I love and admire them, because I consider they wear their hearts on their sleeves,they show and say what they feel, but what I dont understand why when you ask a question regarding an other member whose been moderated, when will that member be able to come back and freely post, you dont get an answer from the moderater, yes george I mean you, oh thats right the forum moderaters are english, perhaps if they were Italian we would get a straight answer, no offence to all us brits, but can you see the diffrence, know where im coming from.........all i want is an answer:) :)

I ask this thread be used soley for the purpose for which it was created please.

[COLOR="Red"]All posts should remain on, or near topic, be non insulting to other posters and contain no swearing."[/COLOR]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Please, remember, this thread is not a place to question, answer or challenge other members about their views - it is a thread to state your opinions, questions and hopes [COLOR="Red"]to the webmaster[/COLOR]. If you agree or disagree with another post - then simply say "I agree with XXXX" or "I disagree with XXXX" and move on to your point.[/COLOR]

Giovanni, although your post appears somewhat as a response to George's post, I believe you are saying you "would take people who are open and frank about their opinions, over those who are two faced and come across as diplomatic in their approach".

George, you post does not abide in any way to the above request, which are, as you should notice, actually [COLOR="Red"]your own words[/COLOR] taken from the "Mod Free Zone" thread and quoted here!

Therefore, I respectfully request it's removal. Please re-post at any time if you have something "on topic" to say.

Thanks.

To keep posts polite and encourage active (yes even passionate) discussion is a very good thing.. however we all know that there are two different 'sides' here - which makes it very difficult to control.

I've recently joined another forum (not related to Italy) and the rules are much stricter, the mods were appointed by the webmaster, banned members stay out, there's no 'hidden' login (no posting without a login) so everyone knows who's online and any off-topic remarks are immediately removed an threads closed. Also, there's no facility to send PMs. They used to have a social hub like the CdC but had to close it as constant infighting broke out all the time!

Now, none of us wants this 1984 scenario to happen here, instead keep it open for all to actively participate. :)

Yes, Giovanni... I agree that Italians are passionate but if you're writing something down, it can easily be misunderstood (as happened this week). This can then escalate again...

However, I'm all for playing open and tell the crowd if someone's banned, for how long (week, month, for good) or pre-moderated, quoting the reasons for this. But in the end the webmaster's decision should be accepted as final regardless...

By the way, Anastasia, I disagree with you. George is entitled to voice his opinion here just as much as you and I ... :)

[QUOTE=Anastasia]I ask this thread be used soley for the purpose for which it was created please.

[COLOR="Red"]All posts should remain on, or near topic, be non insulting to other posters and contain no swearing."[/COLOR]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Please, remember, this thread is not a place to question, answer or challenge other members about their views - it is a thread to state your opinions, questions and hopes [COLOR="Red"]to the webmaster[/COLOR]. If you agree or disagree with another post - then simply say "I agree with XXXX" or "I disagree with XXXX" and move on to your point.[/COLOR]

Giovanni, although your post appears somewhat as a response to George's post, I believe you are saying you "would take people who are open and frank about their opinions, over those who are two faced and come across as diplomatic in their approach".

George, you post does not abide in any way to the above request, which are, as you should notice, actually [COLOR="Red"]your own words[/COLOR] taken from the "Mod Free Zone" thread and quoted here!

Therefore, I respectfully request it's removal. Please re-post at any time if you have something "on topic" to say.

Thanks.[/QUOTE]

Sorry for posting, what ,ok should not have been posted here....

As to your response. well, yes. If that means the occassional fall out, well
come on, we have all at one time or another had to clear the air.

At the end of the day, no ones being mugged, robbed, physically abused or
murdered.
Therefore why do we need such draconion rules? on a forum!
Has anyone threatened to use legal action? don't think so.

We are all humans ,and make mistakes and yes, i know the moderators have
to try to protect, everyone.but then again protect them from what?

No one is pinned in a corner,its not like they are being held against their will!

I really do not understand, so whats new.....

Iona, I agree with you!

Of course George is entitled to voice his opinion here just as much as anyone else!

However, if this thread is to remain "on topic" as per Georges request, should he not abide by his own words? I refer specifically to George's last two paragraphs of his post. No one has cried foul, blamed the Administration, demanded anything, "read the all mods are *****" posts or started a campaign.

It is simply a thread to express clearly and rationally, the major concerns and fears anyone may have to the webmaster within one thread. I have not expressed any concern, opinion or fear I may (or may not) have as yet and am still hopeful the real purpose of this thread can be acheived.

No one seems to appreciate the need for precision here...
a bit of control to sort the rabble out.

[QUOTE=giovanni]
Has anyone threatened to use legal action? don't think so.

[/QUOTE]
Perhaps they have? Ok, a direct question to the moderators: have they?

[quote=giovanni]
Has anyone threatened to use legal action? don't think so.

[/quote]

Yes - several times actually.

So - let me get this right. After you have been arguing for days on end about what is wrong and what is right on this forum what is the action that you want taken?

Please read the house rules - [url]http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/faq.php[/url] - and indicate to me what changes to those rules you would like. This does not mean that those changes would happen but I would like some clarity and would surely consider the possibility of making changes.

[QUOTE=ronald]So - let me get this right. After you have been arguing for days on end about what is wrong and what is right on this forum what is the action that you want taken?

Please read the house rules - [url]http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/faq.php[/url] - and indicate to me what changes to those rules you would like. This does not mean that those changes would happen but I would like some clarity and would surely consider the possibility of making changes.[/QUOTE]

I'd like clarification on whether this rule is actually being enforced:

[QUOTE="House Rules"]While suspended, returning to the Italy Mag forums by creating another account will constitute a further offence and will extend the suspension to the next period, or will result in your account being closed permanently.[/QUOTE]

Does this mean that the original account is closed permanently, but the duplicate account is allowed to stand, because that is what seems to be happening.

[B][/B]Thank you so much for responding Ronald! I knew you would see the purpose of this thread for what it is.

This is a chance for all to state with clarity. Please, don't miss this golden opportunity. I'm sure it can be done and I will start, if I may.

[B]I would like to see moderators elected and/or chosen by the forum members.[/B]

I'm sure the existing moderators are reasonable people and wont be upset, but will understand my statement above is genuinely not personal or a criticism of them in any way.

Thank you.

[quote=ronald]So - let me get this right. After you have been arguing for days on end about what is wrong and what is right on this forum what is the action that you want taken?

Please read the house rules - [URL="http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/faq.php"]http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/faq.php[/URL] - and indicate to me what changes to those rules you would like. This does not mean that those changes would happen but I would like some clarity and would surely consider the possibility of making changes.[/quote]

I PM'd suggestions months ago but to add to them I think modersting posts just causes more frustration. Just stick to the rules, written, public warning and then ban. The circolo should be hidden, in that way it protects the new members and others that are not interested do not have to see any of it, which happens if you search in new posts.

[QUOTE=ronald]Please read the house rules - [url]http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/faq.php[/url] - and indicate to me what changes to those rules you would like. [QUOTE]

Ronald,

Personally I feel that the house rules themselves are fair and reasonable. I do not believe there is much scope for change within them.

That said, I feel that there is a need for clarity in their implementation. I feel that in the past, the manner in which these have been implemented has been very much dependant upon the moderator implementing them and the parties involved.

If the rules are there, they must be implemented in ALL circumstances. Otherwise this leads to bad blood and leaves the mods looking as if they have not been even handed. Minor breaches are not OK. Those made in retaliation to someone breaking the rules are not OK etc etc.

If we compare this to say the British legal system, how this works is that a case is heard and a decision reached. This then acts as a precident for further decisions. This would require moderators to understand the rules, what previous decisions were and why they were made and base future decisions on them. That way even if people don't agree with the rules, they are aware of what happens when they don't follow them.

I would quote it, but can't find it in the search facility, so i assume it's been cleaned, but i distinctly remember one of GeorgeS's comments when he was made a mod. It went along the lines of 'i was appointed mod, read the rules but was given no instructions on how to implement them. This essentially means there is not a coherant approach to moderation. Also, if one mod has a long running fued with one member, they should be not be acting as moderator with that person.

I have said before that you cannot win and continue to believe this to be the case. That said, i believe that a more structured approach to implementing the rules would mean occassionally (very occassionally) you may achieve a no score draw.;)

Regards

Andy

PS: ******ing off to the 'heating systems' thread now cos it's more interesting.

PPS: You can start administering the bit about minor breaches after you've ignored the word '******ing' above.

Hey,

******ing never used to be picked up by the naughty word checker.

Andy

[QUOTE=trullomartinafranca]I PM'd suggestions months ago but to add to them I think modersting posts just causes more frustration. Just stick to the rules, written, public warning and then ban. The circolo should be hidden, in that way it protects the new members and others that are not interested do not have to see any of it, which happens if you search in new posts.[/QUOTE]

Just read this. Could have saved myself the trouble really. It should also apply to those posts which are nasty, then deleted. They cause just as much offence.

Andy

No Andy, your post said everthing that my little post meant but far more indepth and this is exactly what I mean. Everything you have said I agree with and have been requesting for ages.
Clarity and effective comunication, that way everyone knows exactly where they stand, no hidden agenders or confusion on the part of the role of the mods.

It isn't often I disagree with widow twanky - but (though I accept that the point he is making is a call for even-handednes) - the "one size fits all" approach to moderation belongs (in my opinion) in the fascist thread!
As I have pointed out more than once, going "off topic" frequently results in the most lively discussions - compare the Marche threads with the arid Umbrian ones.
In addition, on the occasions where a few members are chasing each other good humouredly around the forum, as happened one day last week on a few threads with sdoj, Markcarter, Relaxed and a moderator (she might blush if named!) were - (as well as having a bit of fun and alleviating office boredom) - in my view - creating a sense of community to any guest viewer: and of a friendly community to which the guest might well wish to return! However, at least one of these posters got a friendly PM saying "lay off, it is off topic".
So, what am I saying? Moderation is a diplomatic skill, and letting stuff run is a decision made by somebody given "control" on a shift basis. The mod might be in a foul mood, have a bee in their bonnet - they might make an error.
If they do, (particularly in the main forum) and a member feels strongly about it, they should be publicly challenged - politely and reasonably, but they should be challenged, and they should respond.
As far as the off the wall insults which appear every so often in the circolo, I propose that a new smiley which says "I am drunk" should be added! Whether the poster is sober enough to remember to use it is another matter...

[quote=Ric]I'd like clarification on whether this rule is actually being enforced:

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B]House Rules[/B]
[I]While suspended, returning to the Italy Mag forums by creating another account will constitute a further offence and will extend the suspension to the next period, or will result in your account being closed permanently.[/I]

Does this mean that the original account is closed permanently, but the duplicate account is allowed to stand, because that is what seems to be happening.

Does this mean that the original account is closed permanently, but the duplicate account is allowed to stand, because that is what seems to be happening.[/quote]
This is a tricky one to enforce. We know of a couple of people who have done it - and quite a few people in the forum realised it as well since apparent "newbies" seem overly concerned about the inner workings of the forum and the ins and outs of historical arguments in the Circolo :) .

These people have been asked to own up but refuse to do so or refuse to confirm it. It seems that they feel ok about lying to people that they are someone else. We don't want to push it too far because as long as the arguments are in the Circolo we can live with it and because (and I cannot stress this enough) THIS IS JUST A FORUM ABOUT ITALY not a place where we can spend endless hours trying to argue with people about relatively irrelevant issues.

So if someone is that determined to create new personas well we can contain it and make sure that everything outside the Circolo is nice and tidy but we will not enter into endless battles.

The Circolo is not visible to people who have not signed up. And I think most people can see the Circolo for what it is and they don't need to be protected. As you can see its "same old - ressurected new olds" that keep posting here.

[quote=Relaxed]It isn't often I disagree with widow twanky - but (though I accept that the point he is making is a call for even-handednes) - the "one size fits all" approach to moderation belongs (in my opinion) in the fascist thread!
As I have pointed out more than once, going "off topic" frequently results in the most lively discussions - compare the Marche threads with the arid Umbrian ones.
[/quote]

In fact you don't see me complaing about it do you?

[quote=Relaxed] In addition, on the occasions where a few members are chasing each other good humouredly around the forum, as happened one day last week on a few threads with sdoj, Markcarter, Relaxed and a moderator (she might blush if named!) were - (as well as having a bit of fun and alleviating office boredom) - in my view - creating a sense of community to any guest viewer: and of a friendly community to which the guest might well wish to return! However, at least one of these posters got a friendly PM saying "lay off, it is off topic". [/quote]

And boring old me might complaing a bit about this but fundamentally won't do anything just remind you that threads need to be kept tidy for people to find info without getting confused. Also don't get upset if I delete something like this. After all such games have little temporal value.

[quote=Relaxed] So, what am I saying? Moderation is a diplomatic skill, and letting stuff run is a decision made by somebody given "control" on a shift basis. The mod might be in a foul mood, have a bee in their bonnet - they might make an error.
If they do, (particularly in the main forum) and a member feels strongly about it, they should be publicly challenged - politely and reasonably, but they should be challenged, and they should respond.
As far as the off the wall insults which appear every so often in the circolo, I propose that a new smiley which says "I am drunk" should be added! Whether the poster is sober enough to remember to use it is another matter...[/quote]
You have been doing quite well in insulting each other in the Circolo recently and noone has been kicked out...

So essentially all I am doing is saying - keep it sensible and keep in mind that this is first and foremost a place for people to find info about Italy and perhaps have a giggle along the way and - who knows even make a friend. Punto. Basta. E semplice no?

I think that when you are saying - commendably - that you want the main forum to be a source of information, with the odd giggle, and a place where you might even "make friends", is a bit at odds with your desire for the forum to be a "journal of record".
Even - a few years down the line - someone looking for good information is going to be able to skim through the odd one liner (and have a historic giggle) - or do you think that the journal of record stuff is the main purpose? If you do think that, then you have to go the FAQ route (which has been suggested on various topics frequently) - but that route denies people like JohnR the dialog that ocurred about roof construction on the quad bike thread...Yes! Now that is where I think moderation is important, and was not invoked despite my public post asking a mod to split the thread into "Quads" and "Roofs". Now that would have been good moderation - but I appreciate that you had "other things to think about" in the area of outlandishly offensive posts.
It is very difficult to win all of the time, but I sense that moderation in the organisational sense (spot something off topic which deserves a new title) is being ignored because of self-imposed (by which I mean moderator/webmaster imposed) obsessions about witchhunting dodgy members.
It would be nice - for me, and I'm conceited enough to think it would also be nice for guests - to be able to have a bit of a crack on with fellow friendly jokers in the main forums: so why not "pre-moderate" the dodgy ones in the main forums and let them loose in the circolo? It doesn't seem to me that the pre-moderated ones have half the offensive potential of other members who seem to be free to post!

The easy answer is for all those unhappy with the modaration on here to start their own forum, its not hard, Puglia lot did it..........:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=paula hampson]The easy answer is for all those unhappy with the modaration on here to start their own forum, its not hard, Puglia lot did it..........:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Hmmmmm!!!!!!!

I did NOT say I was unhappy with the moderation on here, infact what I said was this;

[B]I would like to see moderators elected and/or chosen by the forum members.[/B]

Nothing more, nothing less.

I just want to be very clear.

Thanks.

PS. I've responded to your PM Paula. Thanks.

Of course some are unhappy with the moderation, otherwise this thread wouldn't have been started in the first place.

No need to have responded, it didn't exactly say much did it..;)

[quote=paula hampson]Of course some are unhappy with the moderation, otherwise this thread wouldn't have been started in the first place.

No need to have responded, it didn't exactly say much did it..;)[/quote]

Talking about responding to PM's Paula I take it that the lack of response to mine to you means you are happy with all this stupid fighting that crops up.
My PM was for peace and that I was actually agreeing with you the other night, just in case by some glitch you have had problems with PMs.

No glich, lack of responce to the fact I'm too busy, house cleaning took priority yesterday, evening out last night, Italian naturally, except for 5 mins last night while the dog took a pee and just putting the slap on for a day out today with the family and a nice spot of lunch somewhere. :D

[quote=paula hampson]No glich, lack of responce to the fact I'm too busy, house cleaning took priority yesterday, evening out last night, Italian naturally, except for 5 mins last night while the dog took a pee and just putting the slap on for a day out today with the family and a nice spot of lunch somewhere. :D[/quote]

So in the time it's taken you to respond to Anastaisia and me in the forum you could have repsponded to my PM.
I guess that is the answer then, your are happy with the fighting and do not wish to make peace.
At least I know where I stand, thank you.

[QUOTE=ronald]In fact you don't see me complaing about it do you?

And boring old me might complaing a bit about this but fundamentally won't do anything just remind you that threads need to be kept tidy for people to find info without getting confused. Also don't get upset if I delete something like this. After all such games have little temporal value.

You have been doing quite well in insulting each other in the Circolo recently and noone has been kicked out...

So essentially all I am doing is saying - keep it sensible and keep in mind that this is first and foremost a place for people to find info about Italy and perhaps have a giggle along the way and - who knows even make a friend. Punto. Basta. E semplice no?[/QUOTE] Well said Ronald - Bravo Bravo

I use five forums on a regular basis,they are all on diferent topics and are run
generally the same way.Never the less they do differ on major pionts where
moderating is concerned.

Three of them do use a voting system yearly for moderators,and it seems to
work pretty well,and to most people it is an acceptable way to keep the
sites fresh,and active.

The next thing you have to ask, is where do you want a site to go?
There is not a real answer to that, but if i read RONALD replies correctly,it
doesn't enthuse me.You see one of the sites i use is a ALFA car site,well more
specific a ALFA 156 site,started by an enthusiast based in NORWAY.
So what you may ask, well it has grown and grown and grown,from really
humble beginings of one persons personel car site, to one that can be found
mentioned not only as a reference for ALFA car fans, but to being mentioned
in those online encyclopaedias.
It is now grown so big, that advertising more than covers the site costs and
enlargement, that has been necessary as it now covers all modern ALFAs.

Special offers to members, from those that advertise, are REAL, not just
words.
Again so what, you may ask,well nothing is secret on there,everyone has a
voice,and everyone is kept in the picture about what is happening.

People have been banned, a week, a month, even 3 months,and one person
forever, but at every stage the forum was informed of the reasons, not like
here where it was kept quiet and left to each person to ask, what is going on.

Quiet frankly we where treated like children around an adult discussion, which
in my opinion shows that the moderators got it wrong, big time. Infact really,
their actions of not informing us,was to say the least childish itself, worse
still it shows they are not sure as to how the site should evolve.

If this site is to be used regular by all lovers of ITALY, it has to stay at the
forefront of evolving,or else as new sites spring up on the same subject,it
will fall behind,and who knows dissapear altogether.

Dont believe me?
Well heres an example.

DIESELCAR magazine over a decade ago someone had the foresite to see
there was a market for a diesel only mag.
It then went on to produce a website,really usefull full of users, but the mods
overtime became for too powerhungray,stuck up there own backsides!

The majority of members revolted left and started their own site some 2 years
ago, this has gone from strength to strength, and the oldsite? well its still
their, but alas its just a shell,and nothing else.

You do need to evolve,you do need to keep the members informed,and not
wait to be prompted.

I like this site, and i am lucky,two of the sites i use are highly recomended,
and i have been lucky to see this happen from near their beginings.

I would like to be lucky again.......

Note. its the people who make the site....

Well said Gio!

Gio we also belong to car forums,and I also agree with everything you have said in your above post, Im so pleased that some members here really do care which way this forum is heading.....

Fair enough - so Gio and Frantiani what are you suggesting in concrete terms? What would you like to see change in this forum? What aspect of the forums you believe is not clear enough?

As for the banning I thought it was to the benefit of the person banned to keep reasons quiet. But from now on I have no problem of making a public announcement.

Currently Aliena is banned for very clear reasons. Wishful Thinker is under moderation first for insulting two members in chat and now continuing in moderation for having created Sally Zia - and to be fair to him he has said that Sally Zia was only created to fight for Aliena. That's it - a couple of other members were placed in moderation briefly - one of which was jig (again for the fighting). Now Jig is not in moderation. Wishful Thinker will not be in moderation for much longer even though he does not accept being in moderation even now. Aliena created at least 3 other accounts of which two I cancelled and a third is actively participating right now but behaving so well that I am willing to let it slide for the time being.

So we are talking about a grand total of 3 members (that I can remember of) ever having any clear penalty of which soon all 3 will be back participating in one form or another.

You asked for chat I installed ot - you aksed for a Circolo it is still here. Members who have an accommodation for rental in Italy get 3 months free (and several have already done so and others will hopefully take advantage of this in the future - and I take this opportunity to ask those that I have not replied to to keep bothering me until I do reply!). Members who contribute get prizes.

I totally accept Relaxed claim that some threads would benefit from more work from my side.

So overall there you have it. I think all current moderators are great in what they do even if George is clearly not to everyones liking.

I am all for democracy. Futher down the line we can choose other moderators and do that through a public vote.

Anything else?

Yeah.. just one thing.

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We all kinda like the idea of having a big brother to look after everyone!

baci

Firstly Ronald, thank you for your swift answers, you have now satisfied me with going public as to why certain members,had been banned or have been moderated,even though how long wishful thinker is suppose to be moderated for,we still dont know, but if he is posting within forum rules can one presume he is ok to post freely? secondly Im delighted that you have at least considered to put it to the forum in a public vote for future moderaters, as far as Aliena is concerned If she is on the forum posting I for one would like to welcome her back, and if you feel the lady is behaving her self, is there no reason why she cannot stay? all we wanted was to have more communication regarding moderation, and what was happening with our friends, because Ronald there are quite a few members here that actually care about each other, the forum is an excellent one in my opinion, its had a few blips but it can work even better if we take care of it, by everything out in the open, none of us left in the dark , we all know the score now, so lets all move forward :) once again thank you::)

[QUOTE]a [B]couple[/B] of other members were placed in moderation briefly - one of which was jig[/QUOTE]

Was that a typo Ronald because that would make four, I guess so cos can't think of anyone else.

And just to add, new mods arrived without members being previously warned or considered, there was a lot of confusion at the time of George being a mod, then not a mod and then a mod again. Also could you make clear what is classed as "insulting" to other members as it seams to differ depending who has done the insulting. Some get banned and some don't.

So maybe you can understand from members points of view why the situation has needed to be made clear.

[quote=trullomartinafranca]Was that a typo Ronald because that would make four, I guess so cos can't think of anyone else. [/quote]

I can only recall three so that would be a typo.

[quote=trullomartinafranca] And just to add, new mods arrived without members being previously warned or considered, there was a lot of confusion at the time of George being a mod, then not a mod and then a mod again.[/quote]
Existing mods where consulted and all new mods are based on reccomendations from other mods. In the future we can have a wider consultation.

[quote=trullomartinafranca] Also could you make clear what is classed as "insulting" to other members as it seams to differ depending who has done the insulting. Some get banned and some don't. [/quote]

I would class what Jig told DaveJ in a previous thread (which DaveJ notified me about) as insulting and. I have asked Jig to avoid insulting people like that and she has a. deleted her post (I know that might just be a tactic) and b. at least typed an apology. In the general request of not acting with "draconian" measures and treating everyone as adults I don't thing banning is called for in that case. However, if the insulting continues then pre-moderation and then banning would be applied. Just like I did with Aliena and Jig in the past

[I]Is it me or it or are we ALWAYS going around the same names that just can't seem to step back from the keyboard and take a deep breath :D
[/I]

[quote=ronald]
[I]Is it me or it or are we ALWAYS going around the same names that just can't seem to step back from the keyboard and take a deep breath :D[/I]
[/quote]

No it's not you, cos it is the same people that have been asking the same questions, to make matters clear and for rules to be acted on, not one thing one min and another the next, for months.
It's just taken time, a learning curve I guess. :D

Hopefully there will be no need for rules to be applied because members can see exactly where they stand, are clear about what has happened without jumping to conclusions, step back, take a breath, see a joke rather than an insult or ignore and not start a war. ;)
p.s. For those that are not in front of a keyboard much, they wouldn't have a clue what has been going on.

But I will not sing it in a police state.

I'm not sure of my english, so may be it doesn't fit at all with our situation, but this reminds me a
"[B]Dance of the gull catchers[/B]"
with people going around and around not being able to chatch the gull ?
:)

p.s. That's a citation, who's able to get it ? :cool:

[QUOTE=trullomartinafranca]So in the time it's taken you to respond to Anastaisia and me in the forum you could have repsponded to my PM.
I guess that is the answer then, your are happy with the fighting and do not wish to make peace.
At least I know where I stand, thank you.[/QUOTE]

I'm a non smoker. To me the forum is a quick fag. If I'm up to my eyeballs in cleaning and I have a quick cup of coffee, thats when I log on, I look at three forums on Italy, one of which concentrates on puglia, which you know my second home is in. My spare time is very limited, 4 children, 2 thriving buisinesses, so if I havn't responded to your mail its because I really have more imortant things to concentrate my spare time on than silly sqables on here.

Paula,

Per piacere.. mi raccomando.. hush now. Ronni has a headache.

:) :)

Paula ... Trulli ... please shake hands! :)

Ronald, we have had several discussions about how to deal with the issue of aliena’s account creation and rule breaches. I was under the impression that any return would be managed, however, again, you are demonstrating your knee jerk reaction to situations and a breathtaking lack of consistency. I did state in an earlier discussion in the moderators section, the discussion following your publishing of alienas e mail to you begging to be allowed back as your “first mate”, then laying down HER terms for her return, the replacement of the Sirena tag etc.,( I must say, I did agree with your assessment of her mental state.) I did say at that time, I would walk away from the forum if she was allowed to simply return, this I will now do.

We have a set of rules, which we agreed, and which you promulgated to the forum members, yet, on Sunday, you have very clearly stated that in the case of WT, it is acceptable to create additional Identities to avoid pre moderation, then, lie to you about the creation of those Identities, yet, still be taken off pre moderation soon. In the case of Aliena, pantera la ragna,Anastasia, Thomas prozione et al, it is acceptable to create multiple Identities, and lie about them to avoid being banned from the site. You made the post on Sunday without full consultation with your moderators, (incidentally, I also think it is about time you came clean over the fact that YOU, and YOU ALONE make the final decision over members being banned, or placed on pre moderation, and, you often don’t tell the moderators either that you have made a decision, or, the reason for the pre moderation).

So, you have decided that La Sirena is to be allowed to carry on posting, in spite of your tough talking about “collateral damage” and deleting accounts which you could clearly see, using log on and user agent were generated by the same computer, Allow me to detail a few of La Sirenas many breaches of the rules.
She came in fighting, and set herself against the Forum members who live in Puglia, she constantly hijacked sensible threads and indulged in arguments on the open forum, the circolo was created to allow a group to play, keeping the rest of the forum “sensible” the infighting and arguments continued, including the sending of viciously unpleasant Private Mails to anyone who disagreed with her. You created the Sirena tag to allow her to carry out her periodic deletion of all her posts without losing her “status”. She dis approved of my being appointed a moderator, so started an unfounded campaign to have me removed, you complied, I did actually watch you remove my mod status at the admin. Board, then spend 10 minutes sending private mails to aliena sdoj adriatica wt to confirm your actions, although you didn’t actually inform me that I had been tried…
She carried on her obnoxious behaviour on the forums, by PM and in the chatroom.
She posted a link to the “Mohammed” cartoons which could have caused major problems for the magazine and the website. Again, I was subjected to personal abuse by PM for daring to remove the link. She used vile and threatening language against another member in the chatroom, and was asked to cease posting (you didn’t have the bollocks to ban her, did you) when the other member apologised????? And she was allowed to start posting again, aliena immediately sent another threatening PM, so she was placed on pre mod. Again, she didn’t post much of any use during the period, mostly swear word filled posts criticising most of the mod’s and attacking other members, she was eventually banned all mod’s agreed, one even saying “at last some decisive action”. However, she instantly created pantera, posting openly as aliena11 and challenging the forum admin. I alerted you, she was banned, she then created La Ragna, and posted the following message.
“Pusha da button Georfge.. and then tell ronni you know he didnt really push the wrong one that night.. he only told ya that cus he shit himself cus he IS a W*ANKER.. and guess wot.. everyone knows that too!

Mr Marche.. respect.. but you're wasting your time

Matron.. live.. let live.. and enjoy

Marc.. bring yer mam round fer tea one day and Aliena will teach yer howta spell yer name proper like OK lar?

Sano.. stop f*ucking whinging.. no one gives a flying f*uck “

But, in your words, she’s behaving herself now, so it’s OK to carry on posting…
Welcome to the family RON…

I’m off, you talk a good talk Ron, but you wimp out at the slightest of problems, you really aren’t worth the bother anymore.
Bye.

Oh dear. What a mess. What a shame. Feels like this board is imploding.

M

..........I'll get me coat.

[QUOTE=Marinaw]Oh dear. What a mess. What a shame. Feels like this board is imploding.

M[/QUOTE] Oh dear - Mamma mia - you are right Marinaw - its such a shame that just a few can spoil the site. I'll bet a certain Miss Bossy Boots is laughing her head off at her near demolition of this site. Please give it another try George.