8485 Italian Neighbours

Sounds like you had a good Christmas G&L. Your neighbours sound just like ours.
I'm not there full time yet but my house is v close to yours, so keep in touch - I can offer a proper bed if the caravan ever gets too much!

Well, yes, wonderful Italian neighbours!!
We have had a stream of these fabulous people dropping in with auguri & gifts for the past few days, and now have been invited to a 'cenone' ( a 12 courser!!) tomorrow night in the palazzo across the road, made by the best of the local cooks, and dancing & fireworks afterwards!
What a brilliant way to celebrate the New Year!
Can't wait!:bigergrin:

[quote=Annmarie NZ;79551]Well, yes, wonderful Italian neighbours!!
We have had a stream of these fabulous people dropping in with auguri & gifts for the past few days, and now have been invited to a 'cenone' ( a 12 courser!!) tomorrow night in the palazzo across the road, made by the best of the local cooks, and dancing & fireworks afterwards!
What a brilliant way to celebrate the New Year!
Can't wait!:bigergrin:[/quote]

The same as you, and others, we have wonderful neighbours. One of the things we really don't worry about when we come to finally settle down is the quality of the people around us. They reacted magnificently when the builder fouled up our build and let us use their guest house for several weeks. And each time we return it's not long before we hear someone calling to us to come for coffee which turns into coffee and homemade cake and good natter about all the vicini and those funny folk on the other side of the valley and have you heard about old whats-his-name and the pig that died of shock?

And then the invites to cena, oh heavens I have to get into training for those. Our neighbour is one of the best cooks in all of Italy, I'm convinced. She takes ordinary meals and raises them to an art form.

I'm pleased that all of you have found a niche in your communities and are happy with your neighbours acting like stereotypically gregarious Italians. You and they clearly find your socialising an enjoyable and positive experience, and that's great.

However, just in case this thread is read by another borderline misanthrope who, like me, considers people "dropping by" unannounced to be a very annoying invasion of personal space, I'd like to mention that not all Italians behave like that; living in Italy does not require one to enjoy being constantly pestered by people who want to gossip, give you tiny cups of syrupy coffee or feed you huge meals.

The people who live around me have been very friendly and helpful, but they've been willing to engage with me on my terms and they have not in any sense forced themselves on me. I suspect that my home being a farmhouse some distance from other houses has played a role in that, and probably also the fact that I was a single middle-aged chap when I arrived. I'm certain that the fact that I have not made any efforts to socialise has played a large role in the locals behaving as they have toward me.

God knows what they think of me - if they ever think of me at all - but I'm honestly no more bothered about that here than I was when I lived in the UK.

Al

Thats an interesting post Alan. We live in a farmhouse down a white road about 10mins walk from our village, with only another house lower down, so apart from passing farmers, and our neigbour Mario who comes daily to work the land have no real "neighbours" as such. We chat out on the road and speak to Mario every day, but have not been inundated with visitors.

I dont feel isolated, and we do have Italian friends, and its great that others as posted above have closer neighbours to socialise with. But as you say it is not always the case, and around here there is a polite reserve with some people. The best place for a free for all and a good gossip is the doctors surgery, I have seen people chatting madly and then when I asked a friend who the other woman was and where did she live, she said she had no idea, had never met her before (and this is a small village) so thats another assumption gone.
A

Its good to hear all sides of this debate.

Allan I'm sure you are right about the locals being more reserved as you moved in as a single man. think that most people in the countryside find it more diffucult to 'accept' those not fitting into the typical married couple with or without kids pattern.

This doesn' mean that once they get to know you they won't be just as
kind and helpful as they are towards a conventional couple its just that they are not sure of how and when to approach single people or a couple of friends.

Our main problem with socialising is the fact that we are vegetarians.Actually it really isn't a problem as nearly every meal has something wonderful we can eat but it makes the host feel awkward and some think they need to get special foods in!

As far as people dropping in at anytime well good if you are retired on just using your place for holidays but we both work from home and I can imagine it would be pretty irratating for us if we were trying to meet a deadline!

Basically the wonderful thing about Italy is that if you want to spend your time socialising you can but if you want to seek some peace and solitute you can do that too and as soon as you've had enough plunge back in and soak up la [I]dolce vita.[/I]

I too am a vegetarin of thirty years and our invites to the Italian neighbours are not difficult as there's always bread, cheese and tomatoes which I am given at every meal...the discusssion is usually about the poverina she never eats meat, they ask me every time I go " and you don't eat any meat?..It does not make them feel ill at ease only me for being seen as odd or difficult. I have been given a semplice sugo of tomatoes only to discover they had used chicken stock...well it's got no meat in it has it!
Sprat

Our neighbours are wonderful, they check on the builders, report to us... they even gave us one of the typical "presepe" for Christmas... we could not possibly ask for anything better. We are delighted with them.

[quote=Gala Placidia;79715]Our neighbours are wonderful, they check on the builders, report to us... they even gave us one of the typical "presepe" for Christmas... we could not possibly ask for anything better. We are delighted with them.[/quote]

Our neighours are also wonderful, I've missed them all over Christmas and can't wait to get back. I don't quite understand the point of traveling to another country to hide away from from everyone or to regard friendship as intrusion. Takes all sorts I suppose.

Dont get me wrong..please, our neighbours are wonderful too and I don't know what we would do with out there generosity and helpfulness.It has been an eyeopener for me arriving in a country and knowing no one and suddenly we have Italian friends who miss you when you go to the U.K, who visit when you are ill, who bring you all manner of foods and wine and are looking for nothing in return. I love Italy and the Italians.
Sprat

[quote=lotaresco;79717]Our neighours are also wonderful, I've missed them all over Christmas and can't wait to get back.[/quote]
As I said above, jolly good for you. I'm capable of understanding that approach to people and I'm pleased you're happy with your relationship with your neighbours.
[quote=lotaresco;79717]I don't quite understand the point of traveling to another country to hide away from from everyone or to regard friendship as intrusion. Takes all sorts I suppose.[/quote]
I wasn't a sociable type when I grew up in the US; I wasn't a sociable type when I lived in Scotland for 30 years. But, at 50, I should suddenly become a sociable type upon moving to another country just because that's how the natives believe people are [I]supposed[/I] to behave? :veryconfused:

I don't "hide away" from everyone. My friends I choose carefully and geographical proximity of their home to mine is not a determining factor.

I'm just not the sort that requires lots of validation and interaction with others in order to be happy and to know that my life is complete.

I posted in this thread because I'm fairly certain I was not unique in having a few concerns about stereotyped Italian gregariousness before I made the move. All I wanted to say was that people considering a move to Italy who are at all worried about that needn't be too concerned. My feeling is that many Italians have difficulty understanding the concept of "personal space", but my experience is that their friendliness need not be overwhelming.

Al

[quote=AllanMason;79720]My feeling is that many Italians have difficulty understanding the concept of "personal space", but my experience is that their friendliness need not be overwhelming.[/quote]

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Heh, well we have good friends up your neck of the woods who run businesses in Castelli. So I shall make it a mission to search out the hermit on the hill and advance bringing good cheer and happiness and plant a big smackng kiss on each cheek. If I can get crowds of adorable little children to manage a presepe outside your door I shall consider my job well done. I'm sure that there's a great big cuddly love monster in there just waiting to get out if you have enough hugs. Maybe I can throw in a few adorable kittens as well.

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My experience of Italian neighbours is quite different, but maybe it's just the Friulans. My (Italian) wife and I have found them to be quite standoffish, often not even returning a greeting, and certainly not welcoming in the sense of asking after you, bringing you food or wine or anything. So count yourself lucky if yours do!

I found even in shops, where they have a commercial interest in being friendly, they are not always so. Wehn I first moved to this town, I went into a shop where they sold domestic items, as we were in need of lots of little things like pots and pans, toasters, etc. I greeted the owner and said (in my admittedly rudimentary Italian) that we had just moved here and needed to buy things for the home, and she just grunted. Needless to say, I bought nothing and didn't go back.

Before this turns into another fit of Gradese grumpiness, I should say that some of the people we have met have been very friendly and kind, but it's by no means the rule.

[quote=gradese;79734].............. Whn I first moved to this town, I went into a shop where they sold domestic items, as we were in need of lots of little things like pots and pans, toasters, etc. I greeted the owner and said (in my admittedly rudimentary Italian) that we had just moved here and needed to buy things for the home, and she just grunted. Needless to say, I bought nothing and didn't go back. ................[/quote]

If your town is anything like the one near us, one extended family may well have an 'interest' in many of the local businesses. Sounds to me as though you may have upset them all by how you [understandably, but regretably] reacted to the grumpy owner.

[quote=gradese;79734].............. Whn I first moved to this town, I went into a shop where they sold domestic items, as we were in need of lots of little things like pots and pans, toasters, etc. I greeted the owner and said (in my admittedly rudimentary Italian) that we had just moved here and needed to buy things for the home, and she just grunted. Needless to say, I bought nothing and didn't go back. ................[/quote]

If your town is anything like the one near us, one extended family may well have an 'interest' in many of the local businesses. Sounds to me as though you may have upset them all by how you [understandably, but regretably] reacted to the grumpy owner.

It may be worth trying to 'rebuild bridges'.

.

Perhaps some of the kindly Italian neighbours look on it as if they are mini ambassadors (and of course, it's absolutely nothing to do with their curiousity about their foreign neighbours) and maybe the grumpy Italian neighbours aren't really grumpy at all, but have a more pragmatic approach in thinking that their foreign neighbours have decided to live in Italy so they just allow them to get on with it.

You'll possibly find the first flush of kindliness fades just a little after you've become part of the furniture and that's when you'll realise that all Italians are grumpy. :laughs:

[quote=mungo;79740]...and that's when you'll realise that all Italians are grumpy.[/quote]
Ah, so I'll fit right in afterall! :laughs:

[quote=lotaresco;79722]Heh, well we have good friends up your neck of the woods who run businesses in Castelli. So I shall make it a mission to search out the hermit on the hill...[/quote]
Well, I'm not too hard to find: not only am I the only Brit (so far as I know) around here, I have a pushpin all my own on the Member Map. Be advised, however, that the long driveway that you see on the map does have speed cameras installed.:bigergrin:
[quote=lotaresco;79722]...and advance bringing good cheer and happiness and plant a big smackng kiss on each cheek.[/quote]
...Well, if you [I]insist[/I]. I just hope you'll have shaved recently... :eeeek:
[quote=lotaresco;79722]I'm sure that there's a great big cuddly love monster in there just waiting to get out if you have enough hugs.[/quote]
I'm very happy to admit that a few people have found that to be the case - including the lovely person who has made my existence here decidedly non-hermit-like. I am picky about people, but I'm not impossible to please!
[quote=lotaresco;79722]Maybe I can throw in a few adorable kittens as well.[/quote]
I'm not sure talk of throwing kittens around will be welcomed by the technical blonde (amongst others). I am sure the four resident cats here would not be thrilled to have more competitors at the food bowl. :nah:

Al

[quote=gradese;79734]My experience of Italian neighbours is quite different, but maybe it's just the Friulans. My (Italian) wife and I have found them to be quite standoffish, often not even returning a greeting, and certainly not welcoming in the sense of asking after you, bringing you food or wine or anything. So count yourself lucky if yours do![/quote]
After reading all the other posts in this thread, I was thinking that i must of been in a different Italy, until i read your post. This is exactly how we find our neighbours. We go out of our way to greet them and try to do favours for them, keep a low profile/quiet, etc.

In return, we get the exact opposite. They just ignore us when we say hello, they are inconsiderate, yet for the sake of peace, we don't complain. Yet in the summer, they saw fit to come round and complain, because a few drops of [I]water[/I], from watering the balcony plants, had fallen onto an (illegally) parked car. We didn't try to argue with them...

[quote=Italiargh;79777]After reading all the other posts in this thread, I was thinking that i must of been in a different Italy, until i read your post.[/quote]

It depends on where you are. I get asked often about the "cold and unwelcoming" aspect of the Brits, but that observation extends to others. I had to fly back to England in a hurry to deal with a client last year. I drove to Ciampino and took an Easyjet flight to Bristol, nearest point to my client's offices. On the way back it was stinking hot in Rome, I think it was close to 40C. But by the time I got to L'Aquila the temperature had fallen to 18C. I mentioned this to my friends when I got home and one said "It's just like those people who live in L'Aquila, cold!"

I had a practical demonstration of the value of neighbours. My wife missed me while I was away but she put a brave face on it. However one evening I got a call from my neighbour's daughter and she let me know that it had been a bad day with my wife in tears so I should call her as soon as I could. I did and my wife was grateful. As far as I'm concerned my particular neighbours are more like family than strangers nowadays, but we have spent ten years getting to know each other.

[quote=Torchiarolan;79723]Our neighbours are fantastic.

Generally.... Italians ?... We love them :yes:[/quote]

Our neighbors, both Italian and British, in our small, rural, Tuscan village, are fantastic. From our first night, during a rare, heavy snowfall being greeted by a wonderful British neighbor checking on our welfare, to being welcomed into the community of approximately 12 permanent families as almost family members, has been a great experience. Fernanda, with a garden adjacent to ours, offers us fresh eggs daily, along with whatever veggies she is harvesting. Wilma, the “Matriarch” of the village brings by fruits and veggies several times a week. Louisa, a neighbor lady who walks by daily, brought candy on my birthday, in addition to flowers every week. We were the only non-family members invited to Luigi’s 80th compleanno festa. Need a plumber, electrician, or any other type of service, tell Luigi and what you need will be at your door the next day. We are permanent Sunday dinner guests at the home of the “Matriarch.” I have at least an hour a day, at my convenience, language lesson with one of several villagers. Italian cooking lessons, just ask. Our British neighbor is taken out to Saturday night dances in a neighboring village by a local family. We have permission to harvest mushrooms and chestnuts from everyone’s lands. Cannot think of anything negative about our experiences here.
Hospitality with a capital H.

[quote=alan haynes;79738]If your town is anything like the one near us, one extended family may well have an 'interest' in many of the local businesses. Sounds to me as though you may have upset them all by how you [understandably, but regretably] reacted to the grumpy owner.

It may be worth trying to 'rebuild bridges'.

.[/quote]

I don't want to give the impression that I was in a huff. I just decided not to buy anything, said goodbye in a friendly way, and left. No question of giving offense to anyone. So any coldness from our neighbours is just down to their attitude, rather than my/our behaviour. And, having read Italiargh's post, I'm glad that we are not alone in this perception.

Well i did speak to my father about this subject this morning and it does seem as if we managed to find the unfriendly part of Italy, he comes from Forte Dei Marmi in Tuscany and says the attitudes of people from there and here, are polar opposites.

I suppose that is a price to pay for cheaper housing :winki: