In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[QUOTE=Italyinourhearts]
So, the questions are:
1. Is it possible to have those permissions granted or reviewed now?
2. If so, what's invloved?
3. Can anyone confirm that this remains the sellers responsibility?
Meanwhile, the bank won't issue a mortgage on the property, saying that to go forward they require that official municipal acceptance is granted.
Very disappointing, but we had been braced for such things occurring.
IIIOH[/QUOTE]
Here are my opinions
- Question 1
Yes, if the Piano Regolatore Generale (General Buildig Plan) of the Comune where you're buying allows to built that extension.
In this case your vendor can ask for a "concessione in sanatoria", paying a mere fine and all the other fees on building permissions
- Question 2
The better way is to appoint a geometra to check that opportunity
- Question 3
Yes it is a seller's responsability.
He must sell you something allowed by the municipality, otherwise the local authorities could even order to demolish the illegal extension
This is just a general opinion, becouse many othere situations might occour:
- the illegal extension might have been built before 1967, when there were no binding building permission
- there's a "condono", that can make legal what is presently illegal
etc etc
My advice is to contact a geometra
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
The agent, via a geometra is looking into it.
Interestingly, last week the story was that the current owner had paid the fine, so I (wrongly) took that as meaning everything was in order.
I now wonder if there's more to it: either the fine hasn't actually been paid, or that the fine was just part of the solution - with required paperwork to follow.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
This must be disappointing for you, but shouldn't be too difficult to resolve.
(I am assuming we are talking about a fairly recent extension, properly constructed, built on land clearly in the ownership of the house, and with the same architectural character as the existing house. In other words, something for which permission would normally be granted without argument.)
As notaio has explained, the vendors can ask for a concessione in sanatoria (basiclly a back dated permission). They may already have done this, and paid the fine and fees, and are simply waiting for the final issuing of the documents from the comune.
Alternatively, they have could have asked for a condono - another type of retrospective permission, and have paid this fine, but have not yet registered the condono perfectly with either the comune or the land registry.
If either of the above apply, the problems should be resolved quite quickly.
Even if the vendors have done neither of these things, they still can, and certainly it is their responsibility to do this.
A local geometra may be able to give you an idea of the time scale involved - he will know how long the comune normally takes to grant such permissions.
Hope it all works out for you - as you say, it is by no means an unusual situation!
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
A local geometra (in Umbria) told me that the Comune had up to 2 years to consider approving a 'condono', once the application had been made and the fine paid. Not very good for anyone seeking to sell their house, since its sort of left in limbo for all that time.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
There's a visit to the local commune office happening tomorrow - I'll let you know how long they estimate it'll take to get fixed. My hunch is that it won't be quick - not because there is an impossible problem, but becasue that's the way it is in the south...
Very frustrating.
IIOH
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Oh Marc - I do think you are being overly pessimistic, (or maybe your geometra is!), the procedures for a condono as aganst a concessione in sanatoria are a bit different, and if you are up against a comune who really don't "approve" of condonos, then go for the concessione in sanatoria.
Condonos sanction stuff which is (or can be) absolutely of the wall: if it is just a little uncontroversial something which nobody has bothered to trouble the authorities with, then a "post dated" permesso (in sanatoria) isn't that difficult, or time consuming, to come by!
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
As far as we know there have been no objections, certainly the extension looks pretty fitting and well built (to my eyes) it's even hidden behind a clump of trees.
Given that the fine has been paid, I guessing the remaining issue is that the commune have still to decide if the extension stays or goes?
Is there any way to speed up the commune? Without the right papers our mortgage falls through and the sale with it.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Aarrgh - don't try to do anything in Italy on a hugely tight time scale!! We have a saying here (us ex-pats) which is very important - accompanied by a shrug, we say "This is Italy". Hopefully this is part of the reason you are buying here. :)
It will probably be easier to renegotiate a mortgage than try to hustle the comune.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[QUOTE=Relaxed]
It will probably be easier to renegotiate a mortgage than try to hustle the comune.[/QUOTE]
AND - tell the vendor that you will be holding back the 'value' of the extension until the permission is granted - even if this takes a couple of years
Have you spoken to your geometra, he should be able to tell you. I know that abusive build can be resolved by paying a fine, assuming they don't make you pull it down but thought that only happened every so many years, not sure if it can be done at any time.
From what I gather, I think, even if it can be resolved sooner rather than later it will take time.