8519 Signature- Legible or Not?

[quote=tinacara;79916]Hi to all!

I don't know if there has already been a post about this matter but I'm desperately in need of an answer.

Recently I have signed up with a telephone company here in Italy and when I got the contract it said that I had to sign "per esteso and legibile". Now being British we all know that having a legible signature is a big NO NO! My British passport and all my documents bear only my scrible.

How do I sign? Italian law states that your signature has to be legible, but having no ID which matches their way proves a BIG problem!

What should I do? Has anyone had this problem?? Hope I've explained myself clearly!

Thanks and Buon Anno to all!!![/quote]

I think if you sign and print you should be OK, like yourself I squiggle as well and have had no problems ........good luck

per esteso e leggibile - sign and print.

Per esteso means full name and it has to be legible. The telephone company explained that. All Italians sign legibly and I was advised to sign their way.

I've asked for residency here and I fear that my Carta d'identità signature has to be the Italian way. Is this true?

I also learnt that married women have to sign in their maiden names!

I find it really annoying when you sign and they ask you to do it again, because they cant read it.
Its NOT my signature if I just write it?? so how legal is the legal document that I have just signed if I have forged my own signature!

My father told me that over here, you need to sign with your surname first.

Not sure if true, or necessary, but that's what he told me to do in banks, etc

[quote=herealready;79922]I find it really annoying when you sign and they ask you to do it again, because they cant read it.
Its NOT my signature if I just write it?? so how legal is the legal document that I have just signed if I have forged my own signature![/quote]

That's exactly my point. Thank you!!! Any lawyers out there who can help???

The Notaio made it pretty clear to me he wanted my name in script. I explained it wasn't my signature and he told me he hadn't asked if it was :laughs:

I'm glad I could remember how is all I can say.

My signature look anything but legible - it looks more like a line drawing of a mouse with constipation.

When I signed for my house purchase the Notaio insisted that each time I signed I also printed my name alongside.

Nobody else signing had that problem - but I could read their signatures

The legible signature issue affects other EU countries as well,such as Spain. And married women must sign using their maiden name. If your normal signature is not legible, then you will be asked to print your name alongside as stated by Alan.

So I'm not alone. What if one day someone asks for ID for the self forged signature! What then? Isn't there a law on this issue?

How weird, I signed everything in my married name, all documents for house purchase, residency, and everything else that required a signature. I suppose as my full name appeared on the documents in print it wasnt percieved as a problem. Or as I have noticed before is it just more relaxed in this part of Marche?.
A

It's common for Italian women to keep their own names. For people coming in from abroad your ID etc already shows the married name. I'm guessing they assume that is your birth name. If your name matches your ID then I doubt they care. The problems are likely to happen if you some how end up with half your documents one way and the other half the other. Just stick to what you've been doing. If they asked you married your cousin :laughs:

I had a look at the application form for the "Codice Fiscale" and they ask you to state your "Cognome di Nascita", which, for women, is your maiden name. Check your Italian documents. Anyway, the Notary must have checked on all that.

I had to 'sign' four times before the notaio was happy with my signature. I couldn't really understand what he wanted ... I've had an illegible signature since my schooldays. and it's gotten worse over the years.
While the so-called signature isn't any proof that I signed the documents, I guess that's what the notaio's presence amounts to - a proof of the 'signature'.

Thanks for all your feedback! It's a problem not just for me I see. So my scrible plus the "Italian way" below the signature is the way forward?

yes. it is so stupid. all my official doc. are in a weird sig. not my own...ha! and in my maiden name too...ALL my non-Italian ID, etc. is in my MARRIED name and scribble. makes me nervous not to have anything at all with my "real" identity (!) I have an expired passport from my youth ;-) and a marrige certificate...but that's about it!

What I find really amusing is that Italians say you can't change your name for security reasons - for example, to stop you running away from your mafia past!! They must always know who you are & therefore you must keep the same name from birth. Having said that, by insisting that those of us who have married & changed our names use our maiden name on documents here in Italy is really making us have a double identity which could be very dangerous (:winki:) & is exactly what they want to avoid. And it's not only us Brits that change our names - the Germans & French do it as well & probably there are other countries that I don't know about.

"The legible signature issue affects other EU countries as well,such as Spain. And married women must sign using their maiden name."

When I lived in Spain & registered in my married name all the authorities where perfectly happy about that. I have always used & signed my married name in Spain as that's what's on my passport. Here in Italy on the other hand I have to sign my maiden name & until I get an Italian ID card I have no ID to say that's who I am!!! From my understanding Spanish women sign their maiden names because like Italian women they don't change their names when they get married.

My husband (who's Italian) signs his full name, sometimes with his surname first & sometimes with it after his first name (he's a little confused about that) but it's far from legible & no-one has ever questioned him about it. Except when he used to go shopping in Boots in the UK - every time he tried to pay by credit card they insisted on calling the credit card company to verify that it was him - his signiture really is illegible - & since he couldn't speak English at the time the whole affair was particularly amusing!! They would take him off to the office, call the credit card company, pass him the phone, he'd panic (couldn't speak the language) & say 'my girlfriend, my girlfriend' into the receiver. We weren't married at the time & his card was on the same account as mine. As crazy as it might seem it did the trick & he finally managed to get his packet of razor blades or whatever it was he wanted!!
:smile:

[quote=EddieB;80040]I had to 'sign' four times before the notaio was happy with my signature. I couldn't really understand what he wanted ... I've had an illegible signature since my schooldays. and it's gotten worse over the years.
While the so-called signature isn't any proof that I signed the documents, I guess that's what the notaio's presence amounts to - a proof of the 'signature'.[/quote]

Hi

We signed a few months ago and our notary told us that he is fined around 40 euro for every signature is not readable, so insisted in a nice manner that we wrote our name in a readable form. :wideeyed:somehow it gave formal nice feeling to actually write our names fully.:yes:

My signature has never been very good, usually always signing in a rush it gets worse, now we use pin numbers so much are we losing the skill to write well or is it just fashion, haste, that we have all caught onto a scribble that we claim to be our signature, but not our name?

Sorry do not mean to be fussy, just rambling thoughts.

Lin

[quote=Helen&Francesco;81107]What I find really amusing is that Italians say you can't change your name for security reasons - for example, to stop you running away from your mafia past!! They must always know who you are & therefore you must keep the same name from birth. Having said that, by insisting that those of us who have married & changed our names use our maiden name on documents here in Italy is really making us have a double identity which could be very dangerous (:winki:) & is exactly what they want to avoid. And it's not only us Brits that change our names - the Germans & French do it as well & probably there are other countries that I don't know about.

"The legible signature issue affects other EU countries as well,such as Spain. And married women must sign using their maiden name."

When I lived in Spain & registered in my married name all the authorities where perfectly happy about that. I have always used & signed my married name in Spain as that's what's on my passport. Here in Italy on the other hand I have to sign my maiden name & until I get an Italian ID card I have no ID to say that's who I am!!! From my understanding Spanish women sign their maiden names because like Italian women they don't change their names when they get married.

My husband (who's Italian) signs his full name, sometimes with his surname first & sometimes with it after his first name (he's a little confused about that) but it's far from legible & no-one has ever questioned him about it. Except when he used to go shopping in Boots in the UK - every time he tried to pay by credit card they insisted on calling the credit card company to verify that it was him - his signiture really is illegible - & since he couldn't speak English at the time the whole affair was particularly amusing!! They would take him off to the office, call the credit card company, pass him the phone, he'd panic (couldn't speak the language) & say 'my girlfriend, my girlfriend' into the receiver. We weren't married at the time & his card was on the same account as mine. As crazy as it might seem it did the trick & he finally managed to get his packet of razor blades or whatever it was he wanted!!
:smile:[/quote]

Very surprised about your comments. Both in Italy and Spain women do not change their names when they marry simply because it is not customary, you keep your original identity as per your birth certificate. If you look at what is required to get a "Codice Fiscale", if you are a woman they always ask for your maiden name or "name at birth" and not the married one...
Different countries, different customs.
And I must add that I have two different signatures according to the identity I have to use at a particular time. Both are legible and you can see that it is the same person signing, under a married or a maiden name. I have been doing this for ages and I never had a problem.