8550 Advice wanted please.

Unless it is a really fantastic/fabulous renovation project, I wouldn't use an Architect.

We talked to a local Geometra [must be local - they know the ins and outs of getting things done in that area].

He was recommended by our Estate Agent, and later on, on another job, we used different geometra who was recommended by a local - both worked well. [We changed Geometrs 'cos the first was too busy, with a major project]

We sat down with him and described what we wanted [with a few sketches etc]

He did the plans, and when we OK'ed them he got estimates from local tradesmen.

He then [when we accepted the estimates] got planning permission, let the contracts and supervised the works [we were in UK]

Work was done [in both cases] to design and cost. Also in both cases the works overrun by 3 or 4 weeks [this seems normal in our part of Italy]

Cost - less than 10% of the cost of the works, and well worth it.

However, you should make sure you agree in writing what the costs will be for the various stages of the proces. So that if you cancel the job after the design/estimate stage, you only pay for the geometras work to that date - not the full fee [which some people have been stung with]

We are using an architect for our renovation and are very happy with the results so far, his costs are 10% of the builders quote which as far as I can gather is the norm. PM me if you want his details.
Giles

Dear Wayne,

None of the above really gave you an answer as far as I can see. Of course you can do the work as a DIY. What ever the case if you are doing any structural work or changing anything externally you need to speak with the geometra at your local commune and see if he requires planning permission for the changes. He will say yes obviously as the commune gets fee, however if you press him or speak to a friendly geometra if there is such a thing you'll eventually find out.

Works that you can undertake (after permissions - as above) but need to be checked before closing up all structural works must be done to the new seismic regs. Even though the existing structure may not be seimically built. Checked normally by a geometra. Arrange a fixed fee none of your percentage rubbish.

Windows can be changed without permission as long as they are of the same material wood for wood, design is the same.

Electrics should always be undertaken by an electrician as you will need a certificate for Habitation. Same applies for any gas supplied equipment similarly corgi reg. plumber. may also need for heating system but I have done without wthout any problem.

Internally you can do pretty much as you like. plastering painting, tiles, bathrooms et cetera.

Good Luck!

If you want some costings send us a mail and spec and I'll give you some idea of costs.

Hi Wayne

I used an architect in Orsogna and I was really pleased with him - he quoted an up front price, which was inclusive of design, sourcing the relevant people to do the labour, costing the materials, overseeing the whole project, arranging payment, sorting out planning permission and liasing with the relevant bodies - in fact everything that needed to be done. I also saved quite a bit of IVA because of various little loopholes he knew about.

If you would like his details, then do shout and ill send them to you.

Liz

Hi Wayne,
Have had initial, preliminary dealings with three Abruzzese Geometrae, two of which never got back to me, but the third is professional with a very good reputation amongst the local Italians. We are near Bisenti (TE) if that’s your area.
I’d also be interested in wading through some Italian building regs, so let me know how you get on.
Ditto with the building supplies info. Am currently trying to price up a very large amount of timber to construct a timber frame building (I’m a joiner) so that I can determine whether to build my own or buy an interlock kit.
Had a discussion with the Tecnico at our Commune about DIY. I’d had a very long telephone conversation with an English guy living in another part of Abruzzo who was trying to tell me that no matter how able I might be, my abilities would not be recognised here & any work I did would not be passed & I’d never be allowed to live in my own place on completion. Considering he claimed to a run a building company (or was a project manager working on Brit projects with Italian labour…. he never clarified) I decided his “advice” was compromised. Tecnico confirmed this view & said I could do it all if I wanted, I only had to pay a tame sparky & gas man to inspect & sign off the work, & make sure I used a Geometra to oversee all structural work. Unlike the UK where the building inspector from the planning dept. of the local authority comes out & inspects various stages before they’ll allow work to continue, here you employ a Geometra who gives the commune some form of completion statement signed by him & it’s his neck on the block.
The bricks & blocks one is a good-un as well. You’d think it obvious, but if you don’t know, you don’t know.
There are at least a couple of clearly experienced & knowledgeable people on this forum & I hope they reply a bit more fully. I’m currently searching for some resource or database that will help me price up my timber & for the quantity I need it’s worth looking outside my immediate area.
As far as Geometra’s fees go, 10% is a pretty normal scenario but needn’t be the case if you don’t think that’s the best deal for you. You can get a fixed price if you negotiate. The trouble with a percentage is that if the building cost escalate, & they invariably do, then the Geometra is quids in. So it’s in his interests to ensure that they do escalate. From a recent conversation I had it transpired that one guy was expecting his 10% based also on the cost of some white goods just cos he introduced his client to the place that sold them. It also seems that a lot of Geometras have their own building company, or are hand in glove with one, so, at least for me, the percentage option is one I’d usually be suspicious of.
Good luck.
Pilch

Pilchard,

Of course you can do it yourself! We built a concrete house using polystyrene panels DIY. No problem as long as the geometra signs it off.

We purchased all our timber and glulam needs from Sweden and Austria saving over €6.000 just on the roof. What you can save on the whole structure I have no idea.

One pointer the timber structurally must be designed and signed off by a structural engineer and then constructed with these drawings; the geometra signing off as it goes on.

If you decide to construct not using a kit (much cheaper but obviously slower); make sure you use a structural engineer and not a geometra. They may say he can get it passed. This is tempting because the geometras fees might be a pittance compared to the struc. Engineer; but this is a false economy. They (geometras) tend to over dimension on the safe side and this costs you dearly.

10% is too much for a complete build we ended up paying 3/4%.

Good Luck!!

Sorry lotan4850, which part of " Could anyone out there help with the following? Does anyone know of an Architect in Abruzzo that is reliable and what sort of charges they make for their services" did my reply not answer? The rest of the post I am not in a position to comment on, so i didnt!

[quote=lotan4850;80686]Internally you can do pretty much as you like. plastering painting, tiles, bathrooms et cetera.[/quote]

but... a new bathroom (rather than an upgrade) does require planning permission and certification from your plumber. We got stung by this last year.

We've just bought a house in Le Marche and are having fairly extensive work done.
Our geometra seems great, but wants to charge 14% of the total works price + IVA.
From some of the other posts, I gather this is high? Should we be negotiating nearer 10%

I think 8% is the norm, but negotiate if you can - we settled on a much smaller % with our Geometra, admittedly on the basis that there would be regular work for him ongoing on a number of small projects and with him charging some separate fees for basic project mgmt in our absence.