8545 Oil for heating

[quote=Lorraine;80155]............I have now had to pay for another 500 litre but think someone is taking the proverbial...............Lorraine[/quote]

I think someone is taking your oil!

Reminds me of my son 'borrowing' next door's gas bottle when ours ran out at 10.00pm on a Saturday night. [I wasn't there at the time, of course]

no help after the event, but when we inherited an underground gas tank with our house, I ran it to empty before refilling, then carefully noted the actual volume of gas it took to refill & the usage each time we went over for a holiday. Assuming your oil tank has a meter, doing the same will allow you (a) to see roughly how usage consumes the oil and (b) whether the reading is possibly dropping in between visits (i.e. a leak or pilfering).

[quote=Lorraine;80155]
We have a thermostat for the heating which comes on for approx 2 - 3 hours on a morning and 4 -5 evening and this heats the water for the radiators and bath/sink but only when the house is in use.

Lorraine[/quote]

Also check that the thermostats are actually working correctly. Luxembourg neighbours of ours had a similar experience only to disocover the thermostat was faulty and although they showed everything was switched off the heating was in fact on whilst the house was empty so the oil, as in your case, was used up horribly quickly and they returned to find a cold house and no oil!

Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately the tank is old and doesn't have a meter. Next step is to try and prove the guy who delivered the oil is on the fiddle and hopefully will end up on the dole!

Lorraine

It is [B]just[/B] conceivable that you could have burnt this much oil in a three week period. 500litres of oil, given an averagely efficient boiler, represents between 3500 and 4000 KWh.

Running the heating for 7 hours a day, for 21 hours is about 150 hours. The boiler (if it is not a particularly large house) is probably rated at 30kW. Demanding 25 kW from it for 150 hours would use all the oil.

I think you should follow anne2's advice and check the system before you start challenging the delivery driver!

It's worth checking the tank and associated plumbing to see if you have a leak. The fuel consumption is on the high side.

We have a 2500 litre tank, which is impressively expensive to fill. It lasts exactly one year with our usage. This is for a house with four bedrooms and six other rooms with solid masonry walls. This is for the UK that has a longer winter season than Italy. So I can see that consumption could get as high as 500 litres a month but IMO it's right at the upper limit of usage.

OTOH we do have a new condensing boiler which is much more efficient than the boiler it replaced. The old one would use about 30% more fuel, so if you have an old boiler perhaps that is the source of the problem.

BTW, I'm astounded anyone can afford oil fired CH in Italy, isn't the oil about the same price as diesel?

You are right lotaresco, nobody in their right mind* would choose 'ex novo' to install oil fired central heating today in Italy. The fuel costs €1.20 per litre (IVA inclusa). However (and perhaps this is the case with Lorraine) gasolio used to be quite a common fuel for boilers: which could suggest Lorraine has an installation which is not as efficient as it could be, simply due to it being somewhat antiquated.

For comparison, assuming 80% efficiency from the boiler (in other words, not a state of the art boiler), using gasolio would cost €0,15 per kWh, gpl €0,125 per kWh (at €0,70 per litre), metano €0,0824 per kWh, and a geothermal electrically powered solution €0,08 per kWh).

But, the fundamental misconception which UK ex-pats/holiday home owners bring to the central heating 'scene' in Italy is that a): anybody has given any thought to the design of their radiator/boiler installation and b): anybody (other than Berlusconi) can afford to heat their uninsulated draughty exposed house to more than 15 deg C!

* This sort of decision can be subject to a gamble on any futures market in liquified gas/electricity/oil, (basically for these three fuels the same gamble) or a gamble on the futures market in natural gas. In addition, the developments in diesel powered boilers have hit a bit of a brick wall, because it has not been the fuel of choice in the price critical domestic boiler market for a long time.

[quote=Charles Phillips;80189]You are right lotaresco, nobody in their right mind* would choose 'ex novo' to install oil fired central heating today in Italy. The fuel costs €1.20 per litre (IVA inclusa). However (and perhaps this is the case with Lorraine) gasolio used to be quite a common fuel for boilers: which could suggest Lorraine has an installation which is not as efficient as it could be, simply due to it being somewhat antiquated.

For comparison, assuming 80% efficiency from the boiler (in other words, not a state of the art boiler), using gasolio would cost €0,15 per kWh, gpl €0,125 per kWh (at €0,70 per litre), metano €0,0824 per kWh, and a geothermal electrically powered solution €0,08 per kWh).

But, the fundamental misconception which UK ex-pats/holiday home owners bring to the central heating 'scene' in Italy is that a): anybody has given any thought to the design of their radiator/boiler installation and b): anybody (other than Berlusconi) can afford to heat their uninsulated draughty exposed house to more than 15 deg C!

* This sort of decision can be subject to a gamble on any futures market in liquified gas/electricity/oil, (basically for these three fuels the same gamble) or a gamble on the futures market in natural gas. In addition, the developments in diesel powered boilers have hit a bit of a brick wall, because it has not been the fuel of choice in the price critical domestic boiler market for a long time.[/quote]
Thanks Charles, you obviously have done a lot of research on heating, as we did before we moved here. Thats why we opted for our heating system.

I am reading this thread with interest. I think it is a very good idea that the boiler is checked before there is any question of the integrity of the delivery man.

We use gas for central heating and also have a wood burning stufa in our kitchen, but it is very expensive to use the ch, and we use it sparingly, we are aware of the high charges for gas and therefore dress accordingly. I dont think in our old farmhouse that there is ever going to be a solution for inexpensive/ effecient heating. The only thing we can think of for now is to install another stufa in the sitting room, with an outside flue which would need to reach above our 3 storey building, so that may prove to be an expensive option as well. Has anyone got any other cost effective ideas, that will tide me over until we win the lotto, and can afford to put in DG?
A

Lorraine,

You could have a leak from the tank if it is old? We had oil heating until 18 months ago and than changed to mains gas. We didn't seem to use a lot in the times we were there and have quite a lot left. if anyone could use, you are welcome.

I actually ordered 500 gallons of oil at £247 in the uk about 1 month ago and I expect it to last until April as we have only 4 rads on for a few hrs a day and the thermostat is always on low.If we get a lot of cold weather then possibly we'll need more by March.

Have you made sure the gauge is working?Is there an oily smell around?

I think its important as fuel is so dear in Italy to get rads with individual controls so that you can at least keep one room toasty!I haven't researched this yet but I hope these can be bought in Italy?

Sorry me again, actually this thread does raise some interesting points;how many of us know people who want to move out to Italy full-time when they retire/give up work? Most will be living on less than they did in the uk assuming that costs in Italy are lower and that their money will go futher.

It may be a wise move for anyone who wants to make the permanent move so many of us dream of to consider if they really can afford to heat the home they are thinking of buying!

[quote=manopello;80234]II think its important as fuel is so dear in Italy to get rads with individual controls so that you can at least keep one room toasty!I haven't researched this yet but I hope these can be bought in Italy?[/quote]

They are available, all of our radiators have their own control. The normal on/off control was removed and the individual graded control put on in its place. Have no idea whether it is possible to buy radiators with this control already in place, but if not, it is a simple process to add one.

[quote=manopello;80235]Sorry me again, actually this thread does raise some interesting points;how many of us know people who want to move out to Italy full-time when they retire/give up work? Most will be living on less than they did in the uk assuming that costs in Italy are lower and that their money will go futher.

It may be a wise move for anyone who wants to make the permanent move so many of us dream of to consider if they really can afford to heat the home they are thinking of buying![/quote]

A good point. Also very few seem to realise how cold it does get in winter and for how long. When visiting for holidays most seem to avoid the winter months so do not get first hand experience of living in a fridge until they make the big move!
None of our Italian friends live in a warm house - usually only one room is heated and when I do home visits the oldies are usually found wrapped up in umpteem layers, literally sitting on the hearth with all the men keeping their hats on!

Thanks again for all the comments and ideas. The house is big with a radiator in each of the 4 large bedrooms, living room, dining room, kithchen, landing and corridor downstairs so it does take some heating. The radiators don't have individual controls so when the heating is on it's on all round the house unless we turn radiators off so it may be worth having new controls fitted if possible. There is definitely no leak from the tank as we would have smelt the oil and my query was mainly because the last time we had the tank filled (500 litre) the oil lasted over a year and prior to that when we bought the house we were told the tank was over half full and it lasted nearly two years. At that time we didn't even have a thermostat so the boiler was on 24/7 while we were there. We have a wood burning oven in the kitchen which we have never used and seeing as the kitchen is the only place with no heating I may try it. Does it make good bread?

Lorraine