8580 Whos leaving?

Just to assure everyone the bargains are still there but you have to look in the right places and use the local agents who are born and bred in the locality and know it like the back of their hand.

I have had a couple of customers selling up their farmhouses after only a couple of years, the problem being that they found them to be too big, they have consequently both bought in towns and have found costs far more reasonable, and one of them recently told me, they now feel part of a comunity rather than on the dge, but not quite in, because of the location of the house.
There seems to be more people who are thinking of buying in towns, apart from the prices being more realistic, the costs of restoration are generally more affordable, (not many townhouse require work on foundations for example), and what many people seem to overlook, the maintenace and upkeep of a smaller house, costs less, as do the taxes (ICI).
There are some good bargians to be found in town or village centres, lokking in the right area, where there is less british influence on the prices also helps, as mentioned The Ascoli and ascolano areas, to Acquasanta are relatively undiscovered.

We're selling, but only due to the fact that we have a mortgage AND the low value of the dollar. If we didn't have a mortgage, even the low value of the dollar wouldn't make us leave! Luckily, our house is in a small Umbrian hilltown, and we're hoping to sell the house for a fair price.

Considering what we paid for the house and what we've paid in renovations and improvements, we think our price is reasonable....and being expats ourselves, we have no intention of keeping someone else from realizing their dream! Luckily our area isn't over-run with foreigners and the prices are still affordable.

We're another selling up and have had an offer. :yes:

[quote=scatterbrain;80710]We're another selling up and have had an offer. :yes:[/quote]

Not to be blunt .........but ?

But what :bigergrin: The thread said 'who' was leaving not 'why' :nah: Our reason is simple, we just wouldn't use it as often as we thought we would. We live near Manchester and the budget airlines are mainly from London which is fine apart from arriving back at midnight on the return. The drive back at that time, to Manchester, doesn't bother me or my husband but we have 4 kids to think about too. Am I sad I'm selling? To be honest, not really. Do I regret buying, definitely not :nah:. Its been a great investment and we will look for something else but who know's where :v_SPIN:

[quote=scatterbrain;80717]But what :bigergrin: The thread said 'who' was leaving not 'why' :nah: Our reason is simple, we just wouldn't use it as often as we thought we would. We live near Manchester and the budget airlines are mainly from London which is fine apart from arriving back at midnight on the return. The drive back at that time, to Manchester, doesn't bother me or my husband but we have 4 kids to think about too. Am I sad I'm selling? To be honest, not really. Do I regret buying, definitely not :nah:. Its been a great investment and we will look for something else but who know's where :v_SPIN:[/quote]

Thanks for taking the time...........good luck back in the yUK

[quote=Angie and Robert;80478]The post by tenneval set me to thinking. Would it be possible to find the statistics for home owners selling up and leaving Italy, [B]and their reasons,[/B] [/quote] that's what the original post said, so that's why I listed our reasons. I'm sure there are as many reasons for selling/buying as they are people, but I do think it's nice to have an idea 'why". "Why are you selling your house?" is usually the first question we're asked when people find out our house is for sale. No sense keeping it a secret!

first time I've posted on this site. I am a retired, single woman who is trying to get to Italy to either buy or rent. The decimated dollar against the Euro is not helping as I am
on a budget. Do I continue to try and make the move in the face of "bad new" or give it up entirely. I'm getting older, don't have the option of waiting too much longer. Want to do it but don't want to do something stupid either. Any advice?
Thanks for any help.
Laroma

Maybe consider some of the more off the beaten track areas. If you don't mind be outside the main tourist towns prices are cheaper. You'll likely face a trek to things like airports but otherwise it might fit you needs.

Thank you for your help, Tennaval and NickZ.
Right now I really think buying is not a good idea - renting for a while will be better. NickZ, I would rather not be in a high tourist area. Some smaller towns in Tuscany or in Le Marche or Abruzzo that provide transportation.
I'd rather have an apt. in town where I can walk to the stores. I'm sure I
can find something. Then, later, if things are better, I can buy.
Thanks again.
Laroma

Small towns tend to force you to get a car sooner or later. You might be able to walk to all the grocery stores etc but eventually you'll want to see something outside of town. The bus choices are geared to the people going to the cities to work or the kids going to school. So you're up catching a 7am bus and not back until mid afternoon. Then you need to hope the bus goes some place you want to be.

It's doable but not exactly the freedom of the open road.

[quote=NickZ;80785]Small towns tend to force you to get a car sooner or later. You might be able to walk to all the grocery stores etc but eventually you'll want to see something outside of town. The bus choices are geared to the people going to the cities to work or the kids going to school. So you're up catching a 7am bus and not back until mid afternoon. Then you need to hope the bus goes some place you want to be.

It's doable but not exactly the freedom of the open road.[/quote]

That is a very good point made by NickZ - but all is not lost if you choose a town served by a railway station, as trains, at least if the station is on a decent line, are much more frequent than buses, and don't cost very much at all to use. As an example, somewhere like Terontola on the border of Umbria and Tuscany would be cheap to rent, untouristy, and with direct trains to Rome, Florence, Siena or Perugia and Assisi.

Around Narni in southern Umbria, or Poggibonsi in Tuscany would also work on this ease of travel criterion. Perhaps anybody not wanting to run a car should select possible locations using a train map!

Well, I can see the logic of what NickZ is saying. Charles, your idea of locating towns on a train map is excellent! It's kind of a catch-22. Larger towns, such as Florence, usually have excellent tranportation but are more expensive to live in. Smaller towns are cheaper but good transportation is somewhat lacking. May change my mind later
about a car but for right now, I'd like to avoid buying one if possible.
Thank you very much for your help.
Laroma

You can always consider a town near a bigger town. A bigger town with a car rental shop. Take the bus to the rental pick up a car for a day or a week. Cheaper and less hassle then owning a car.

Only downside is automatic cars can be rare outside the tourist airports.

NickZ, that is an excellent idea! That's why I love these forums; others can think of great ideas that I haven't. That I would like. Being able to rent a car only as needed.
Guess I'll just have to learn to drive a shift!
Thanks, NickZ
Laroma

[quote=marcorestauro;80620]I have had a couple of customers selling up their farmhouses after only a couple of years, the problem being that they found them to be too big, they have consequently both bought in towns and have found costs far more reasonable, and one of them recently told me, they now feel part of a comunity rather than on the dge, but not quite in, because of the location of the house.
There seems to be more people who are thinking of buying in towns, apart from the prices being more realistic, the costs of restoration are generally more affordable, (not many townhouse require work on foundations for example), and what many people seem to overlook, the maintenace and upkeep of a smaller house, costs less, as do the taxes (ICI).
There are some good bargians to be found in town or village centres, lokking in the right area, where there is less british influence on the prices also helps, as mentioned The Ascoli and ascolano areas, to Acquasanta are relatively undiscovered.[/quote]

Agree with every word. As I've mentioned before, we owned a very isolated farm house that we used as a holiday home for 10+ years. But when we decided to live here permanently realised it would make far more sense to move in to a village. You do feel part of a community, and this is very important if you are here year round or even visiting regularly. It's far easier to find people to look after your house when you're away, do odd jobs, etc. Plus you make friends. Being able to walk out to the shops, bank, post office rather than having to drive 9 km each way is so convenient. Also, being in a village and protected, house is easier and far, far cheaper to heat. There are some beautiful village properties around, many not requiring much work, some fully and charmingly restored. Re location, someone else mentions the Tuscan/Umbrian border, absolutely. Around Chiusi for example or Citta della Pieve. Chiusi's on the main line (Milano/Roma) with good bus connections too.

I think there will always be a highish turnover in holiday homes for a variety of reasons. It may turn out to have been a mistake, novelty wears off, bored with going to the same place repeatedly, need to liquidise the cash for other purposes. And the current exchange rate isn't helping either. Several American friends here living off interest from savings are finding it tough. And I am alone in thinking that prices for just about everything are going up monthly? V

[quote=Violetta;80862]
And I am alone in thinking that prices for just about everything are going up monthly? V[/quote]

No you are not, sometimes it seems as if prices are going up daily!

Thank you, Violetta. You said it better than I could have - all the good reasons for
wanting an apt. in town. Besides, for a single person, being out in the country in a
farm house would make me feel more isolated. I stayed two months in Cortona, once,
and even in a two month period, got to know some of the townspeople.
I will check out the Tuscan/Umbrian border area.
Any and all information is very welcome.
Thank you for your encouragement.
Laroma

[quote=Violetta;80862] Being able to walk out to the shops, bank, post office rather than having to drive 9 km each way is so convenient.
And I am alone in thinking that prices for just about everything are going up monthly? V[/quote]

Only point watch the location of the villages. Some can take quite awhile to get you to a main road. Going around windy roads from the village centre to the valley floor is pretty to look at but not great if you're in a hurry.

Prices are highly dependent on what you buy and where. Went to see my cousin. Just south of here. Diesel was 6+ centes less. Grocery shopping was cheaper. Plus she made me lunch :yes:

Just out of curiosity, how many people constitute a village? Or a small town. Is there a difference?I'm talking about a village or town that has a population of 7,000 to 12,000 inhabitants. Plus or minus. The larger towns
have museums, concerts, etc. Smaller ones have more of an Italian neighborhood feel.
But nothing will be just right. There are always pros and cons. Just depends what your priorties are.
Ha, ha, NickZ, lunch was a priority.

Agree with you, Nick, about easy access to the main road. We're only 8 mins drive to the A1 though it can be a difficult 8 mins in winter (as recently) when fog rests in the Chiana valley until midday. You get to know the corners where the black ice forms but it's still a bit hairy sometimes.

Laroma, although I hope it's decades off yet, when we bought this place we did give consideration to fact that I might one day be here on my own. At our old house, I used to be petrified on my own at night, even though we only lived upstairs (never renovated downstairs) and our security was supposedly good. Now I have neighbours who although not so close as to intrude, would hopefully hear me scream on a quiet night. Also, it's nice to have people around, people that drop by, remind you to close your shutters when a storm's coming (how do they know this???), admire your garden, etc. I got to know more people in 10 minutes in this house, than I did in 10 years at our other place. And although it's only 300m away, it can sometimes take me quarter of an hour to get to the post office in the morning as so many people stop to chat. Village life (I think we're around 1,400) is great.

Incidentally, Italian speakers, what term do you use for "village"? I've always used borgo or villaggio, tho' not keen on the latter, too lazy. But American friend tells me she was taught paesino. I know paese (that's village too, isn't it?) but I can't find the diminutive in the dictionary.

[quote=Violetta;80911].....

Incidentally, Italian speakers, what term do you use for "village"? I've always used borgo or villaggio, tho' not keen on the latter, too lazy. But American friend tells me she was taught paesino. I know paese (that's village too, isn't it?) but I can't find the diminutive in the dictionary.[/quote]

The word "paese" has many meanings, including village, area, country, region.... and "paesino" is used as a diminutive. "Paese" is used very much as the French word "Pays" if you can remember your school French.....

Violetta, I am not afraid of living on my own; been doing it for 15 years.
What you described your neighborhood is like is exactly what I am looking for.
Really want to stay away from those areas swamped with tourists. Am looking to connect with my Italian neighbors and truly experience the Italian way of life.
Thanks for your imput.
Laroma

Holidays are Ok for a break but if you are thinking of moving then take a long-term rental first and you can look around and if it is all too much then back out with no harm done and if you love Italy like most of us then you can buy.

Yes, that is what I will do, Elliven. Buying right now is not really a good
idea. And you are correct, if everything works out, rent now, possibly buy later. It's just too big a decision to buy for now.
Thanks,
Laroma

I see many very lovely, restored farmhouses for sale round here for prices in excess of €700,000 sothe prices have gone up but are they selling??

I'd love to know.

Also, I wonder how many people are selling up because their relationship has broken down. I would say this has happened to about 1/3 of the people I know here. Is it just me or is that representative?

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][SIZE="6"]PRODI[/SIZE][/COLOR] It was all too much

Penny, the estate agent who sold us our house was telling me at a drinks party at Christmas that the market in southern Tuscany has been very quiet since middle of last year. Most of the rural properties on her books will be in the Euros 600,000 upwards. And I notice even walking around the villages that smaller (cheaper) centro storico houses and apartments have had vendesi signs on them for over a year now, even in the very popular places. For Brits and Americans, the exchange rate has possibly had a big impact, especially for Americans. And for everyone, including those in the Euro zone (there are lots of French and Dutch around here), could it be that vendors are over pricing their properties?

I don't know of anyone selling due to relationships breaking down here but do recall many years ago house hunting in France and in the space of one morning viewed 3 or 4 properties that were all on the market for that very reason. Sad, huh? V

We are selling up in northern Marche. Moved to Italy end of 2006 and back to Uk end of 2007. We bought a farm house in the middle of nowhere. Lovely but lonely place to be. Views to die for but not to live for! Hard to make friends when you have no neighbours.

Maybe if we had moved to a village or small town it would have been different. Many non Italians we met loved the country life though. I loved the quiet and the darkness at night and the widlife - even the snakes. Just couldnt live there. Horses for courses I suppose.

Best of luck. I think renting is a great idea. There was quite a lot to rent in our local small town of Pergola.

Sad it didn't work out Felicity. Could you not just keep the house as a holiday one and rent it out as well???

Felicity, you have been very forthcoming and straightforward explaining why the Pergola countryside didn't suit you. Could I be impertinent enough to ask why you thought it was a good idea back in 2006? Can you remember what decided you to buy a 'place in the country' in Italy? Can I ask if you were somewhat surprised that your Italian neighbours did not speak English? Hopefully - even though you have decided it didn't work for you, you don't have too many regrets at having experimented!

Felicity, but you can still make it different. Have you not considered selling up in the country and moving in to a village or small town, maybe even renting first? V

We should all thank Felicity for speaking so honestly. Perhaps her message will act as an eye-opener for some... I am sorry that it did not work out for you, Felicity; however, I am certain that you gained experience through it and we all need to learn our own lessons.... even if sometimes it is the hard way. Best luck with your future plans.

[quote=felicity;81301] We bought a farm house in the middle of nowhere. Lovely but lonely place to be. Views to die for but not to live for! Hard to make friends when you have no neighbours.

Maybe if we had moved to a village or small town it would have been different. [/quote]

I think many fall into the same trap.
We know of several families/couples who bought houses in the middle of nowhere, exactly as you described. They would be fantastic holiday homes and you would be thrilled if you rented one, but I know there is no way I could live there. Some still live there, others have upsticked and either bought in a village/town or moved back to the UK. Also, I think few realise just how cold and harsh it can get over the winter months and how hard it can be to effectively heat an old house.
At the end of the day, many of the country houses Brits and others buy have been abandonned by Italians or only used as holiday homes for the self same reasons!

Good luck, I hope it all works out for you.

[quote=anne2;81333]I think many fall into the same trap.
We know of several families/couples who bought houses in the middle of nowhere, exactly as you described. They would be fantastic holiday homes and you would be thrilled if you rented one, but I know there is no way I could live there. Some still live there, others have upsticked and either bought in a village/town or moved back to the UK. Also, I think few realise just how cold and harsh it can get over the winter months and how hard it can be to effectively heat an old house. [/quote]

Absolutely Anne. This was us and we knew from having spent a month over Christmas at what was holiday home that we could never have stuck it all winter long. It wasn't hard, it was IMPOSSIBLE to heat our lovely house on the hill with 360degree view. And it was so cold and windswept I spent all winter thinking I'd accidentally left a door or window open! So we sold up and moved in to a village and, as I've posted before, our lives literally changed for the better overnight. We have friends, neighbours, a lovely snug and cheap to heat house. Can walk out to shops, restaurants, bank, PO. And this is why I would urge Felicity to perhaps consider doing the same. If you love Italy, surely it breaks your heart to leave? And another, possibly better option in the short term is renting initially in a village or small town. There are some lovely and very reasonable places around at rock bottom rents, though word and mouth is arguably best way of finding them. V

Whilst we live in an old farmhouse in the countryside, we did make sure it was only 10mins walk from our village,but our young Italian friend still thinks its lonely and we must be sad living there!!. She has an apartment on the coast and prefers the beach and the cities, and is probably only still here as she is an only child and her parents live locally.

I guess it all comes down to research as mentioned in past posts, and /or renting to get a proper feel for living here.
A

My house is in the centro storico of a little town in Abruzzo and is very pretty. There are plenty of neighbours but its limited resources and my lack of Italian I reckon would make for a really miserable time if i chose to live there permanently.

[quote=turtle;81304]Sad it didn't work out Felicity. Could you not just keep the house as a holiday one and rent it out as well???[/quote]

Love to Sally but cant afford it.

[quote=Charles Phillips;81305]Could I be impertinent enough to ask why you thought it was a good idea back in 2006? Can you remember what decided you to buy a 'place in the country' in Italy? Can I ask if you were somewhat surprised that your Italian neighbours did not speak English? Hopefully - even though you have decided it didn't work for you, you don't have too many regrets at having experimented![/quote]

Charles,

I wanted a better quality of life for my family. I knew my neighbours didn’t speak English I did not know how hard it would be not to be able to make real, tell your feelings to, friends because is hard to express emotion in another language. Something I have always taken for granted without realising what a privilege it really is.

I don’t regret it. I learnt a lot about myself and about what is really important to me in life. I still love Italy I just can’t live there all the time. Wish it hadn’t cost me so much money to find out though! :winki:

felicity, thanks for the honesty of your post. For what it's worth I believe that the experience will have made you stronger in MANY ways - some which you may not yet appreciate. Nothing you do in life is wasted if it's done with positivity at the time. Best of luck for the future; keep us 'posted' on your progress.

Hi

Thanks Felicity, for your openness, I am sure it will help others.

Buying the right house is never easy and buying the right house overseas is doubly difficult.

We came in April 2003 with a brief to buy something to live in and somewhere where visitors would like to take their holidays. For us this had to be Tuscany, not because it is necessary the best place in Italy but because it is the place that just about everyone outside Italy has heard of. Umbria, Puglia, etc. all wonderful but not many Americans, Brits etc. had heard of them in 2003 and we weren't going to survive without a business that could be up and running immediately. We didn't have time for the rest of the world to discover these other wonderful places.

We also needed somewhere close to a village and good size town for our everyday (365) needs and those of our guests.

After THREE MONTHS and 8,000 kilometers of driving and looking around houses in Tuscany, Umbria and the Marche, we found NOTHING! so tight was our brief.
But, sods law, or perhaps the gods thought we had tried hard enough, within 2 days of
getting back to the UK we found the house we are now in on the web. The next day I was back and within 3 months we had moved in. BUT, we learnt so much in those 3 months, we learnt to 'read' the houses and community and also to 'translate' estate agent speak into reality.

We now live and have our business in wonderful countryside, on the edge of a state park, with direct views to the Etruscan (6th bc) city of Arezzo just 10 mins. drive away -which comes complete with Eurostar link to Rome, Florence, etc. four airports within 2 hours, 15 mins. from the main A1 north south autostrada, history and culture oozing from every town and village, countless restaurants, banks, car hire, an excellent hospital, excellent shopping and Esselunga - Italy's answer to Waitrose.

But it hasn't all been easy, we have struggled to learn the language, have learnt how to accept the Italian way (why should I expect an Italian to defer to me in custom or tradition - I am an immigrant!), we do miss our friends and family but skype, good airport/cheap flight access and the internet have helped so much. There are always new challenges, especially with an old house but with our new friends and the network of contacts we have built up it is getting easier.

But our life changes, with age and circumstances and like others have posted before, whether here or in UK we make changes/moves to accommodate this -- so for now, and I hope for a long time we are here at La Torre. (I still pinch myself that I can right NOW reach out and touch a wall built 1000 years ago with stone shaped in Roman times and yes Violetta, the views!!) I am so proud to be a guardian of this beautiful house and can only imagine the lives of the countless families that have lived, worked and died here. I hope we can do it justice. When we were introduce to the local padre he was reassured that we would be looking after La Torre, a feature so significant in the Arezzo area it is used a the 'landmark' for all new developments.

Before making any move, home or away, it is so important if you come as a couple, to make sure your relationship is strong because change always brings stress and those issues that you had at home are the first pieces of 'emotional' baggage that gets packed.

It's only Monday morning,,,, I'll stop there before I get carried away!

[url=http://www.tuscanyfortwo.com]Tuscanyfortwo.com[/url]

[quote=Aretina;81411]....

Before making any move, home or away, it is so important if you come as a couple, to make sure your relationship is strong because change always brings stress and those issues that you had at home are the first pieces of 'emotional' baggage that gets packed.

........

[url=http://www.tuscanyfortwo.com]Tuscanyfortwo.com[/url][/quote]

Excellent advice in general, Aretina, but I wish to highlight this paragraph as it is most important. And not many people realise it.....