8584 Piemonte Restoration

Duncan .... How long is a piece of string?

How big's the property? Let's say a property of 160m2.....

Electrician €4-5000 1st and 2nd fix but not with georgian face plates or any other elaborte finish.

Plumber €10.000 should be enough for rads, boiler, couple of bathrooms, kitchen, et cetera ....maybe even a wood burner if you purchase to the right price and don't go for the Hans Grohe all singing and dancing taps...

Windows and doors allow between 300 -400 € per m2 unfitted.

Plastering internally about 10-14 €/m2 plus €2 for materials (that's on the high side) machine applied.

Painting €2-€5/m2 excluding the paint

External drainage.... Can't do this without knowing a little more about the size of the project.

Good Luck!!

Oh.... Prices from northern Italy ... lower down = cheaper!

lotan's prices seem very good, cheaper than I have experience of perhaps. Happy to reccommend the people we have worked with if required.

Thanks Lotan, just the detail I was looking for; the property is 350m2 although split so that not all would require renovation at the same time; my tastes are more simplistic and rustic rather than the top-end of the market. Accessability from Scotland is the main issue with location in Italy; I understood the market was dearer in the north (and Tuscany it seems) but the south is impossible to get to for us. I also love to drive over and have done so a few times now so the north is much more attractive for that reason also.

I won't entertain anything that needs structural work and probably would baulk at even a new roof; other limited internal work is possible by self and family, but electrics and heating etc is for the professionals.

Any views on the most efficient heating methods? What proportion of the year is it required, I've only experienced the Lake Garda area as late as September so haven't experienced the winters.

there a couple of other active threads on heating right now - check out
forums/cost-living-utility-services/

Hi Duncan, from a fellow weegie. Sorry to derail your thread but - how long does it take you to drive to Northern Italy from Glasgow & what route do you find best? I haven't done a car trip yet (as I don't have the time ,and my house is nearere Rome so a longer haul) but will do some day hopefully ...

Duncan,
As regards heating system you will need to answer the following questions......

1. Permanent/ holiday home? I presume holiday home.
2. How many times do you envisage being there at the coldest part of the year?

Lake Garda I can say coldest period just before Christmas until end of February very roughly.

Italian homes are cold and rather depends on the fabric of their construction - read no insulation. This makes them colder in winter and warmer in summer (with the exception of 1 meter thick walls) which are very cold in winter unless you throw tons of wood at them and just about temperate in Summer.

Give me your answers to the above and I'll make a suggestion.

Good luck!!

After these answers I can give some advice about the heating system

From Calais I go to Reims then head to Switzerland and the St Gotthard tunnel which brings you to Milan. From Reims to Lake Garda in 10 hrs is possible but watch the traffic around Milan during rush hour it can add two hours on. I've also tried the Mont Blanc tunnel; its about the same but I like Switzerland's scenery. You can go faster on the French autoroutes mind you and they're generally quiet. You'll need a vignette to go on Swiss motorways which costs about E30 I think but is valid for a year.

I live just across the border - in Lombardy - and have spent the past couple of years "doing up" a house here.

[B]I would suggest (strongly) that you make contact with a local Geometra before starting anything serious.[/B] There are several things that you will need local approval for BEFORE starting - more things than you might think of, such as windows, doors, fences, even painting in some areas. That contact might lead you on to other local contacts as well, but be sensible and use your head. Prices of tradesmen vary enormously from area to area, so there isn't a hard and fast rule that you can use. Accept that you will find the odd cowboy and try to take it in your stride - particularly plumbers - in my experience! It is really no different to the odd cowboy builder you would find in Glasgow, really. As a foreigner you will tend to attract the cowboy element more than a local will - much as an Englishman will attract the cowboy builders in Glasgow, of course!

Make sure that you visit as many DIY stores and Builders Merchants as you can to get an idea of what you want - and what is available - before committing to buying any hardware, such as showers, doors, windows, etc. You will get an idea of price of the things that way, giving you a better chance of finding what you want/can afford without wasting too many tears or much time.

You ask about heating; what sort of services do you have in your house? If you have the possibility of gas - use it! Gas is called metano here, by the way. Otherwise, look to see what other people are using locally - they are not stupid and usually know what works best and cheapest locally.

Having said all of that, there is help here should you need specific help. I am not far away, as are a few other people on here. Oh, another thing. Don't forget to include air conditioning in your plans at an early stage. You won't regret that one!

Good luck! PM me if you need more help.

PS. I use the ferry from Zeebrugge to Rosyth when I take a trip home to Scotland. It is actually cheaper then driving through England, as well as much quicker. Coming back I drive through France to Monte Bianco and home via Torino.

PPS. I just noticed that Lotan suggested that €10k would be the sort of price to expect to pay for a full heating systems, a couple of bathrooms, a kitchen and even a wood-burning stove. Sorry, Lotan, but you are MILES out there! For €10k you will barely get a kitchen fitted - OR a bathroom. Really. Remember also that UK plumbing methods are not allowed here either. See a Geometra before doing anything else. Please.

Dear Nardini,

I agree whole heartedly with nearly all you said however I feel strongly about a couple of points.

1. I have managed to negotiate 3 independent projects with locally sourced plumbers for local Brits without any hardship so €10’ should be enough - naturally depends on the number of bathrooms et cetera. So I must stick to my guns… sorry to disappoint you we English can do economical also.

2. Who said you can't use any other plumbing method here; as long as they are corgi registered (for gas works) in the UK with the applicable training they are allowed to register and do the works. As long as materials and equipment conform to the CE kite mark they are allowed in Italy.On this point you are wholly wrong!

3. Are you completely mental (not rudely)!!! Air conditioning !!

a. it costs an arm and a leg to run.
b. it is one of the greatest additions to climate change.
c. there really is no need.

You would be better off insulating your house….

a. this would increase its sales value with the new rules in place for energy conservation
b. you could get a grant from the state irrespective (upto 55% of cost) whether you are resident or not.
c. you can do your little bit for the environment.

Insulation has two benefits ….

a. You keep heated air in during the winter
b. You keep hot air out during the summer.

Our house with the new rules as a class "A" house holds between 20-24ºc year round without AC.

No air conditioning there are other methods available to cool a house both environmentally better, cheaper, with very little running costs.

[quote=lotan4850;80992]I have managed to negotiate 3 independent projects for local Brits without any hardship so €10’ should be enough - naturally depends on the number of bathrooms et cetera. So I must stick to my guns… sorry to disappoint you we English can do economical also.[/quote]
My point, exactly. If you are managing projects for Brits here in Italy, I assume you are both qualified and registered, yes? It would be a disaster for anyone to find their project is illegal after completion, wouldn't it.

I repeat my recommendation to anyone about to start any kind of work on their house to discuss the project with a local Geometra BEFORE commencing any work - no matter what anyone might tell them to the contrary. That is the stage when costs can be researched.

You may well have managed a couple of projects for people here in Italy, but I have completed 2 houses and an apartment in Milano for myself - with no problems and fully legal. But I don't wish to enter into an ego competition - and I am not trying to sell my services to anyone, either.

[quote=lotan4850;80992]2. ...............On this point you are wholly wrong!

3. Are you completely mental!!! Air conditioning !!
[/quote]
Sigh. I really see no point in becoming so personal.

My point that anyone seeking to undertake any kind of building work in Italy should find a decent, local Geometra is the most important point. Whether or not you like Air Conditioning is beside the point - IF anyone wants to have it fitted, sort it out early in the building works. That was my point.

Now, life beckons. Obviously, people can do whatever they like, but if they wish to live in Italy they should comply with Italian laws and regulations. A Corgi registered UK gas fitter would still need to pass Italian legislation requirements to gain qualification equivalency here to work as an Italian gas fitter - as with any professional or trade qualification.

So...

[quote=Nardini;80984]PS. I use the ferry from Zeebrugge to Rosyth when I take a trip home to Scotland. It is actually cheaper then driving through England, as well as much quicker. Coming back I drive through France to Monte Bianco and home via Torino.
[/quote]

Thanks Nardini, it was the Rosyth option that I was wondering about previously - I knew that route existed but had no idea whether it worked out quicker/cheaper than driving down south to the chunnel. I had heard that the ferry was very expensive if taking a car with you - could you advise the approx cost?

[quote=pigro;81000]Thanks Nardini, it was the Rosyth option that I was wondering about previously - I knew that route existed but had no idea whether it worked out quicker/cheaper than driving down south to the chunnel. I had heard that the ferry was very expensive if taking a car with you - could you advise the approx cost?[/quote]Yes, of course, Pigro. The company running the service is [URL="http://www.superfast.com/"]Superfast Ferries[/URL] - yes, the same as run the ferries from Ancona and Bari to Greece. I quite like the fact that I can get a decent night sleep before landing as well - weather permitting, of course!

The website has [URL="http://www.superfast.com/Scotland/English/passengers/sen_prices08.aspx"]all the prices on it[/URL] as well, which is quite handy. remember to calculate the cost to include your vehicle as well as the number of passengers travelling.

re: air conditioning, I have spent much of August the past three summers in my house in Piedmont. I haven't felt the need for air conditioning at all; but my house is at 1500 feet above sea level and is made of very thick stone.

I love the area, I came here for wine originally but loved the countryside and the people. Please feel free to email me if you have any questions.