10881 Advertising?

Careful folks.... Christiana is part of The Management and I think that Italy magazine are allowed to post advertising on their own web site! Let's just hope it doesn't open the flood gates to people who think they can get away with it too.

[quote=Marc;101744]Careful folks.... Christiana is part of The Management and I think that Italy magazine are allowed to post advertising on their own web site! Let's just hope it doesn't open the flood gates to people who think they can get away with it too.[/quote]

That was my thought as well............goose and gander

I know you will not believe this one minute - but Cristiana posted this purely to raise the profile of the Property of the Week series and perhaps start an interesting debate on prices given that there is comment on the story about the price of the property. The company in question is not even an advertiser of Italy Magazine currently! The link is not to a pure ad but part of the editorial of the web magazine so it doesn't really contravene forum rules (you can of course argue that we should not have such editorial about property but that is a different issue). So Marc no this should not open the flood gates - ITALY does very little really in terms of promoting anyone on the forums.

One last note - let's not have another thread completely overtaken by a side-discussion. I am moving these posts to the appropriate forum where (if you are still interested) we can pick up the discussion.

Why would we not believe you? Seems to me you have given a straightforward reply.

Not sure where you are moving this discussion too Ronald so I am inserting a reply whilst I can.
The property in Puglia is being sold by an agent based in Cortona Tuscany. Whether they are advertisers or not, by appearing in such away on the Forum (they are ostensibly being given the backing of Italy Magazine). I wonder if this type of "publicity" is in the best interests of those reading the Forum, who may assume Italy magazine "recommends" the estate agents?
I for one did not care for this approach.

Ronald. I believe that the problem is, yet again, one which could have been easily avoided if Cristiana had actually stated her point, rather than just slap an empty post on the table. You see, it rather looks like a challenge when that happens. It also rather treats people here as though they are children that can be spoken down to as mere idiots. Non siamo deficente, Cristiana - capisce?

If you wish to turn this forum into a children's playground - or see the posters as idiots, you should have a look at a few other fora for English Italian lovers - see the problem? They are the graveyards that this forum could become, so very, very easily.

My point? Engage in conversation. Simple. If you have nothing to say, don't waste the bandwidth with an empty post.

Ronald. The fact that the "Property of the Week" section is getting very few views at the moment is to do with the economic situation - not that the people that use the forum are all foaming at the mouth, ready to buy anything, but are unable to think of looking at the section. In fact, there will be quite a few on here having to sell up their holiday homes over the next 12-18 months. Be subtle about it. Please explain this to Cristiana.

Thank you.

[quote=ronald;101758]I know you will not believe this one minute - but Cristiana posted this purely to raise the profile of the Property of the Week series and perhaps start an interesting debate on prices given that there is comment on the story about the price of the property. The company in question is not even an advertiser of Italy Magazine currently! The link is not to a pure ad but part of the editorial of the web magazine so it doesn't really contravene forum rules (you can of course argue that we should not have such editorial about property but that is a different issue). So Marc no this should not open the flood gates - ITALY does very little really in terms of promoting anyone on the forums.

One last note - let's not have another thread completely overtaken by a side-discussion. I am moving these posts to the appropriate forum where (if you are still interested) we can pick up the discussion.[/quote]

I, like juliancoll, have no reason to disbelieve what you say here Ronald.

However I [I]would[/I] question this part of your statement:

[I]"The company in question is not even an advertiser of Italy Magazine [U]currently[/U]! The link is not to a pure ad but part of the [I]editorial[/I] of the web magazine so it doesn't really contravene forum rules (you can of course argue that we should not have such editorial about property but that is a different issue)."[/I]

Currently?????
So they aren't advertisers (yet), right? Well if that's NOT an ad in disguise, and (it would seem) FREE of charge, aren't they the lucky ones.... How much does IM charge for such ads, and do current advertisers get the chance to have [I]thier[/I] properties in the forefront of a forum debate on prices? I rather think not. Well not unless the comments are 'anti', in which case Admin/Mods would delete 'em without even batting an eylid - wouldn't they?

Is it, as you suggest, part of an 'editorial' about this property?
But an editorial is:
[I][B]editorial[/B] adj referring or relating to editors or editing. noun an article written by or on behalf of the editor of a newspaper or magazine, usually one offering an opinion on a current topic.[/I]

But this post is offering price, full details of rooms, fittings, area, how to get there, travel suggestions and even the estate agents 'phone numbers! I somehow doubt that the written 'opinion' here was written by the poster, but more likely by the estate agency's promotion dept. It's an advert for ONE villa, not an editorial on a new architectural style in Puglia!

So what makes that different from pure advertising?

Just a thought guys..........would it not be better to delete both threads, and have a new section called article's of the month or something similar..........just trying to keep the peace here.

You know what Ricky, I often read your posts and just chuckle before moving on, but I wonder how often your short posts really do hit their mark. This is one of those times and I thank you for your suggestions as it does seem some are Hell bent on causing a build up of bad feeling.

Nardini - no reason to be so suspicious and we certainly don't want to treat other people as if they are idiots. I don't want to go into the relative merits of the debate on language, just wanted to say that intentions were misread. Question is (and I don't require an answer) - do you want to move forward or forever view the other with suspicion?

Carole - the company in question was an advertiser and may very well become an advertiser again but that will not not be based on the strength of that story (if only things were that simple!).

The post is written in the typical style such posts are written across many publication of this type - it is not a hard-hitting piece on the state of the Puglia market - the comment is where there is some space to make things more interesting and what Cristiana was hinting at - unfortunately she is a bit shy to say more than the bare minimum right now - but I agree there is a balance to be struck and hopefully it will eventually be established.

[quote=Cristiana;101720]"A pretty stone house in vernacular Apulian style, the cream-hued Villa Arco brings together the best of traditional architecture and new build comfort..."

Read more:
[url=http://www.italymag.co.uk/italy-featured/puglia/villa-arco-san-vito-dei-normanni-apulia]Villa Arco, San Vito dei Normanni, Apulia | Italy Magazine[/url][/quote]

The only thing I can see that is Cristiana’s contribution is “Read more”

The first paragraph is a direct quote from the ‘Editorial’ and the rest is just a link.

There is no invitation to comment on the price and no explanation as to the purpose of the post.

I am not attacking Cristiana, just trying to point out why the post has been perceived in the way it has by some members.

Ronald, you were doing so well - until you deleted the posts above and left your comment about 'trading insults'. There were no insults - only attempts. Please amend. :winki:

Ronald, please can you respond to Ricky's excellent suggestion which is -

[quote=deborahandricky;101785]Just a thought guys..........would it not be better to delete both threads, and have a new section called article's of the month or something similar..........just trying to keep the peace here.[/quote]

[quote=ronald;101804]Nardini - no reason to be so suspicious and we certainly don't want to treat other people as if they are idiots. I don't want to go into the relative merits of the debate on language, just wanted to say that intentions were misread. Question is (and I don't require an answer) - do you want to move forward or forever view the other with suspicion?[/quote]Well, Ronald, I will answer as it is the "polite" thing to do. I have voiced a view held by several regular posters here that it is very difficult to hold a conversation (this is a message board, remember) with someone that is unable to communicate using English very well. This is an English language message board, remember. Most people that come on here are not Italian speakers, after all. Cristiana has an unfortunate ability to write in a very confrontational way, which is not good for a moderator. She has shown that she does not understand British English very well - certainly not if there is either humour or irony involved. She has also shown a tendency to leap to conclusions (and into action) about what she has read, without feeling any need to either justify or explain her actions or responses. Now, you may very well counter that with "she has to learn", which would be fair enough if she were not putting herself into a position where she can take punitive action against either posters or posts. However, she can - and she has done. We are now seeing her post a link to an expensive property in Puglia without any comment - despite there being a perfectly good section on the magazine in which to advertise it.
[quote=ronald;101804]The post is written in the typical style such posts are written across many publication of this type - it is not a hard-hitting piece on the state of the Puglia market - the comment is where there is some space to make things more interesting and what Cristiana was hinting at - unfortunately she is a bit shy to say more than the bare minimum right now - but I agree there is a balance to be struck and hopefully it will eventually be established.[/quote]

I replied to your PM some while ago in some detail, Ronald, as you may recall. My points at the time were that Cristiana needed a lot of help with her English - both written and comprehension. Please help her - or check her actions before they become issues. Again.

I appreciate the need for the magazine to generate advertising revenue - as I have said in the past. However, you have to appreciate that whilst an advertisement is perfectly acceptable and normal in context, it is less so when it is not even up to the standard of most of the Spam which finds its way on here - and which is so admirably dealt with by the moderation team.

I'm not trying to fan the flames here but I wonder if a 'How to be a forum administrator' booklet is available... the last event that caused a good deal of hot air also involved Cristiana's actions.

ps. was writing this as above post was added, and my comments still stand.

[quote=juliancoll;101808]Ronald, you were doing so well - until you deleted the posts above and left your comment about 'trading insults'. There were no insults - only attempts. Please amend. :winki:[/quote]

I agree - all these deletions breed far more bad feeling and mistrust than you can possibly imagine Ronald!

If you can delete peoples comments and views so easily, can you not find a way to re-instate them in the same manner?

Either that or delete the whole thread, not just piecemeal as you've just done. That is just plain divisive and will create bad feeling and suspicion amongst members for no reason at all!

Hi

Must be a record 9 viewing the announcements page!

Also, a translation hint for any in need... irony used in previous post!

Nardini while I don't agree with absolutely everything you say or with the way you say it you have a point - and hasty action was taken. As I said before, do we move on or linger on it? I've stated in the previous post the thinking behind the latest link and why not more explanation was given and the need for balance (which answers you post Nielo).

Sally I think its a bit late to delete, etc and move on etc. Past experience shows that if I delete everything and ask people to move on it is not particularly liked (and I think rightly so)

Aretina there are several booklets - and I assure you that they are being read :smile:

Carole B: If I delete the whole thread I would be insulting everyone that took part in it as I cancel their relevant comments. Two members has a silght diggresion into what seem to be part of a longer argument between them that are not useful to this thread. If I left them they run the risk of simply taking the thread in that direction. I did not delete one person's insults and left in the other - but both. What would perhaps be patronising or divisive would be to do anything more than just removing comments that in a normal conversation would be swept away by the wind but in a printed conversation remain on the screen for far too long than I am sure any of the people involved would want them

Lessons learned for me: balance required, enough explanation required, members are sensitive about anything spammish - which is great.

Now, let us put this particular debate to rest and move on to the next one :wink:

Wait Ronald I haven't said anything other than reference to Ricky's excellent suggestions.

Sorry. Ah yes Ricky suggested the deletion of both threads. Well okay don't delete but still consider his idea a better option.

[quote=ronald;101814]
(which answers you post Nielo).
[/quote]

Thank you Ronald but my post was merely a statement of the facts as I see them and needed no answer.

I suppose its down to how you perceive your relationship with IMF, for me I am a "guest" they allow me to post I am grateful, I actually dont give a hoot about who said who did what or whatever, and am surprised that it should course such a response, or perhaps I am more realistic, IM is a commercial enterprise, we are all here because of that.Whether you like it or not.
A
A

Interesting Angie, I don’t feel the same.

I feel that the members are not ‘guests’ of the forum they ARE the forum.

Without members who are willing to post and participate the forum would just be a piece of empty web space.

Note to self...

Must get myself a mobile internet setup, as it seems I miss all the best bits when I'm out earning a crust.....[IMG]http://www.italiauncovered.co.uk/forums/images/ibulletin/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Our crusts have been well earnt, believe me, or do join us more often?
A

funnily enough i remember a fair time back how there was a large degree of lamenting /complaints/ arguments over the fact that this forum had few to no Italian native posters....

now from this and other related threads involving an Italian native it would seem to me its clear that it would not be an easy choice for anyone who is partially or fully bi lingual Italian English to become a member here as there seems to be little slack cut to allow for the differences in nuances...

i often find it very difficult listening to Italians that have learnt formal English at university and speak a sort of stilted but grammatically correct version of the language in either following there points or not just falling asleep... however i make the effort because they are doing the best with what they have learnt ...and by engaging in conversation they will learn from me some of the typical English ways of expressing oneself.... although i cannot hold myself up as a shining example of englishness ... or even britishness...

i think it was quite brave that the forum decided to let a native Italian speaker who has pretty good english... bloody hell wish i could write in Italian that way... so we all know she has trouble with being a bit short worded... unlike me... but we also know two other things...she is new to the job...which gives anyone an excuse to have a chance to learn a bit more and make a few silly mistakes... she also is learning how to communicate in english with us... but given the anger she seems to generate when she does make what some see here as a mistake or non apt posting she gets very little chance to engage in that....

i really do think that we should all allow her a bit more time and a bit of slack so that at least she can start some sort of rapport with the place and begin to communicate a bit better and if after a while she still gets up peoples noses ...or so it seems then let the pack tear her apart once again...

adriactica has written "...funnily enough I remember a fair time back how there was a large degree of lamenting /complaints/ arguments over the fact that this forum had few to no Italian native posters...."

I would say that Forum members have warmly welcomed posters who are Italian by birth. What has not been welcomed is a person (Critiana), who has a position of authority and has acted against the rules that apply to Forum Members and that most of us endeavor to abide by.
Her actions do not require language skills, they require discussion with Ronald before action is taken. Rather than Ronald having to be "the voice" that defends her after the event. It is all part of the "learning to do the job" process.
To subit a Property PR piece straight out of Italy Magazine, where online readers can easily find it, should they want to, with what seems to be no good reason, apart from extra publicity for the estate agent, is valueless to the purpose of the Forum in my opinion. I would like that thread deleted please. It can still be located via Italy Magazine online.

I am one of the voices lamenting the lack of native Italians on this forum. I think (and it is only my opinion) that people, who really know the system because they have grown up with it, would be of invaluable help with a lot of the technical enquiries here.

I also think (again my opinion only) that a lot of slack is cut for members who post usefully. I myself make no end of typographical errors, for which I am rarely castigated and Adtiatica’s grammar is bizarre but most of the time you can work out what he’s trying to say and there is little if any comment.

I believe that the problem lies not with Cristiana’s ability with the language (which lets face it, is pretty good) but in the fact that she is able to wield such power, without a clearer understanding of the nuances involved.

I had “poor lost soul or wind up merchant” deleted as ‘terms not appropriate on this forum’ I have not argued the case, because I don’t think it is worth it, but I fail to see what is wrong with either term and it does leave me in the position that I will probably incur the wrath of Cristiana without ever knowing why or how I am doing it.

I think that If Cristiana did post and engaged in dialogue with members in an open way, she would be welcomed and would probably profit from the exchanges as much as the rest of us, but if she continues to use her position to make arbitrary moderating decisions or flout the rules the rest of us must stick by, then she is going to find things much more difficult.

Perhaps everyone should take a deep breath, forget what has already happened, wipe clean the slate and start afresh?

[B]The fact that Cristiana is part of the Admin team makes no difference to my post here as I am not talking about the rights or wrongs of any Admin decisions she has made.[/B]

Well said Adriatica. What amazes me about all this is how Cristiana has been jumped upon for the way she expresses herself in English and yet, the vast majority here could not reach the same level of expression in Italian!

There are so many English (mother tongue) speaking members here who have a much poorer level of comprehension, spelling and grammar than Cristiana and make meny (sic) mistakes and yet we say nothing - there is no attempt made to correct them - no thread to discuss the poor use of their own language - no suggestion that they should not interact because they don't use their own language correctly! Some of the posts are totally incomprehensible and yet we manage to generate replies and offer help!

It seems some believe Cristiana "is unable to communicate using English very well, has an unfortunate ability to write in a very confrontational way, which is not good for a moderator. She has shown that she does not understand British English very well - certainly not if there is either humour or irony involved".

I just don't get it as I seem to understand her and I don't find her posts confrontational. Is that because I accept the differences between Italian and English expression? Is it because I'm just picking a fight with Nardini because I am against his views? [B]Absolutely not[/B]. I want Nardini to express himself - to have the freedom to post his opinion and reasons - and therefore, allow me to do the same - without either of us taking any offence. I believe we actually both understand and accept this concept - accept that no malice is intended from either side - and welcome the ability to have this discussion in frank terms.

Examples are [I]to[/I] numerous [I]too[/I] recall and [I]their [/I] are lots of [I]raisons[/I] why this [I]happins[/I], but how [I]meny[/I] of us have used [I]their[/I] instead of [I]there[/I], [I]where[/I] instead of [I]were[/I], typed [I]proffessional[/I] instead of [I]professional[/I], often forget the difference between [I]advise[/I] and [I]advice[/I] and have absolutely no idea what [I]imperious[/I] means?

And yet, here is an Italian women - doing her best to communicate with the members here - who has at this point only reached a level of language that some here deem unfit simply because this is an (English speaking) forum on all things Italian.

What absolute poppycock! (not the word I really want to use here, but it will suffice)

If this truly is an (English speaking) forum on all things ITALIAN then surely that MUST include the people - and their language. This is not a forum about the use of the English language - it is a forum about ITALY - and that includes ALL THINGS ITALIAN - the people, the language, the way they express and the mistakes they will often make with any second language.

Who here is brave enough to attempt to write a lengthy reply in Italian? Who would feel as if they were being helped to learn Italian if they were constantly berated for the way they were writing in a second language in the way Cristiana has been heckled to the point that all her confidence seems to have been eroded so much that Ronald has to post about how shy she is?

We have had uproar before when Ronald has made decisions we did not like or agree with and that is fair enough - and to be expected, but who really is petty (or daft) enough to point out to other English speakers any mistakes made in English? We don't rear up if another person expresses him/herself poorly in English do we? So why is it OK to harrass Cristiana in this way?

I don't think Cristiana is shy - I think she now feels intimidated and is apprehensive of making more mistakes. That's not right. Why, if we do not understand exactly what Cristiana posts, can we not ask her to try to explain again?

I don't expect others to agree with all I say, life would be monotonous if that happened, but I do hope allowances will be made for all Italian and other non English speakers in at least the same way we cut some slack for those who have English as their first language and still make awful mistakes.

Cristiana, I apologise to you on behalf of the members here who do welcome you, who do understand what you are trying to say, who do want more input from Italians, especially Italian women, who are interested in what you can bring to this forum, especially from a non administrative role and who do hope that you will take no notice that a certain level of 'higher' education must be reached in order to participate. :smile:

I don't know all the "ins and outs" as I missed the last issues here concerning Christiana before.
But i would just like to ask 2 questions.
1) Whilst i totally agree with what Adriatica wrote about having more Italians on the forum and the desirability of having them here, unless the said person was totally comfortable with all the nuances of the English language I would definitely question the wisdom of Ronald (or whoever) in making her a moderator with the power to delete/amend posts and/or censure forum members.
There are so many subtle intonations in the English language that having a "prefect" who misses them will fan the flames of resentment and anger.
I certainly would never put someone on as the face of my business unless they could interreact 100% with my customers and be able to recognise the written or verbal warning signs that an issue was potentially arising... we have all had experiences of various overseas call centres no matter how "well intentioned" their operatives.
My second question is...
2) We have two smashing rental properties down in Puglia, and our friends also have some as well... can I also post a link extolling their virtues please, ( along with photos, prices contact details).... not so that I can advertise but just so that I can be 'informative' to other members please ?

(actually I have 3 questions)

3) If the answer to question 2 is "NO",... then my 3rd question is ... [B]If not, why not[/B] ?

:bigergrin:

Sorry for cross posting Nielo, I was typing and didn't notice you had posted - agree with you.

[quote=juliancoll;101900]Sorry for cross posting Nielo, I was typing and didn't notice you had posted - agree with you.[/quote]

Happened with me. JC and Nielo

[quote=Nielo;101893]I believe that the problem lies not with Cristiana’s ability with the language (which lets face it, is pretty good) but in the fact that she is able to wield such power, without a clearer understanding of the nuances involved.[/quote]
For the little it's worth, I concur.

Ronald, my understanding is that you are a native English-speaker, that you speak Italian as a second language and that your Italian is somewhere in the very good to excellent range. That being so, I wonder if you'd be confident and comfortable acting as a moderator for an exclusively Italian-language forum?

Cristina's English is much better than my Italian will ever be, but my impression is that she does have difficulties – both linguistic and possibly cultural – grasping some of the subtleties of what's said here. That's really not surprising, given that there are regular failures of communication on forums of this sort amongst even native English-speaking Brits who grew up fully immersed in British culture.

JulianColl makes a point about welcoming Cristiana's contributions, particularly those in a "non administrative role". I agree with that; I'm certain Cristiana has much useful to contribute which would help us non-Italians understand Italy and Italians better. But I do have difficulties accepting that it's sensible to give someone – whether that be an Italian, a Belgian or even an American – who is not intimately familiar with British English and British culture a moderator's powers in a British-based internet forum. Making an Italian who clearly has a limited understanding of British culture and British idiomatic English a moderator here just because the forum is about Italy has always seemed to me to have a faint whiff of Political Correctness about it.

Al

Many of you might not be aware that Cristiana also posted another thread early yesterday on Sicilian sweets. Lovely concept but the thread just contained a few youtube videos followed by a [B]link to an existing article on the same on Italymag[/B]. She ls from Sicily but there was no personal imput alas, and an opportunity was lost. What a pity.

[quote=Sally Donaldson;101907]Many of you might not be aware that Cristiana also posted another thread early yesterday on Sicilian sweets. Lovely concept but the thread just contained a few youtube videos followed by a [B]link to an existing article on the same on Italymag[/B]. She ls from Sicily[B] but there was no personal imput alas, and an opportunity was lost.[/B] What a pity.[/quote]
Pot. Kettle. Black?

How many times have you started a thread with no personal imput Sal? I'm not having a pop at you - honestly - but for Gawds sake - surely you can see the hypocrisy here? :bigergrin:

I agree with Sally; personal input is very important.

Notaio was not a native English speaker but was IMO a valued and cherished member of the forum, he had great knowledge to share but also shared personal opinions which allowed others to view and appreciate him as a person.

I did see the other post but as it takes ma at least 20 mins (on a good day) to view a youtube snippet, I didn’t bother.

We are discussing Cristiana, are we not. Cristiana is in and from Sicily so we expect her to talk about things Sicilian from the heart.

[QUOTE=Sally Donaldson;101907but there was no personal imput alas QUOTE]

To my mind this is a large part of the 'problem' - Cristiana locked a thread without offering an explanation; she provided links to existing articles on the same Italy mag again without explanation, one of which at a quick glance looked remarkably like many of the spam advertising posts that are deleted asap! Apparently she was expecting us to comment on the article re the Puglia house but failed to tell us that this was her aim. I think that if she had explained and justified her actions at the time of posting much of the misunderstanding that has subsequently arisen would have been prevented.
Her English is excellent - until I can understand all Italian language innuenedos, subtleties etc I am in no position to criticise her linguistic abilities but would just ask her to explain to us her reasoning behind any future actions!

[quote=Sally Donaldson;101910]We are discussing Cristaina are we not. Cristiana is in and from Sicily so we expect her to talk about things Sicilian from the heart..[/quote]

Yes, we are discussing Christiana, but more her position.
I think that the problem is the position she has been put in, rather than Christiana herself. Her English is far better than my Italian will be for several (many?) years, but I think the situation is that her present post should not have been offered to her, and that she was obviously badly advised to accept it. If it was felt that she was - and had to be - the person for the job, maybe an "observer status" should have been utilised to begin with.
I have not a problem with her, as I am sure that she is probably a pleasant and decent person... it is just I feel that she is out of her depth, and doesnt seem to be being offered "on site training".

[quote=Sally Donaldson;101910]We are discussing Cristaina are we not. Cristiana is in and from Sicily so we expect her to talk about things Sicilian from the heart..[/quote]

So, because she is Sicilian she must not start threads without adding personal input - must not post 'starter threads' so we can 'take it from there' - must always give a full explanation of her intentions - on every and any subject she raises - sit us down like kids and draw little pictures so we understand clearly her every move?

Dream on.

With regard to the Sicilian Sweets thread - who was it that took it way off topic? Was it not you and I Sally? By posting that thread, did she not offer information about the subject through the use of Youtube videos? Did she not ask a question about which sweet members would prefer? Can we really not see that it was a 'toe in the water' thread?

Why cant Cristiana just be allowed the freedom to post and we can then give ourselves the credit for having some intelligence to be able to work it out for ourselves?

I'm off to post a few hundred Googled article links into the forum so I can see if anyone will smack my bum - which if you are right - should not happen, because I am not in or from Sicily.

I can understand some being up in arms about her position of authority on this forum - that's par for the course, but I can not accept that we should also be up in arms about the style of her posts, the content or her lack of personal input.

This place amazes me - I need a week in the funny farm. Someone please book me in! :laughs:

[quote=juliancoll;101916]This place amazes me - I need a week in the funny farm. Someone please book me in! :laughs:[/quote]

I know of a nice house for sale ..........:eerr::eerr:

:eeeek:Heading for the cloak room to get my coat.................

And I suppose the price will fluctuate depending on which agent I use? :bigergrin:

I only need a bed for a week Ricky - I'll even bunk up with Mary and bring my own sheets - so long as she makes some decent pies to calm my tattered nerves. :laughs:

Bunk in with Mary...................OMG you are nuts ...........LOL

[quote=adriatica;101872]i often find it very difficult listening to Italians that have learnt formal English at university and speak a sort of stilted but grammatically correct version of the language ....i think it was quite brave that the forum decided to let a native Italian speaker who has pretty good english... bloody hell wish i could write in Italian that way... so we all know she has trouble with being a bit short worded... unlike me... but we also know two other things...she is new to the job...which gives anyone an excuse to have a chance to learn a bit more and make a few silly mistakes... she also is learning how to communicate in english with us....[/quote]Firstly, you should know that I am married to an Italian that learned English at university - I am more than aware of the problems and difficulties of someone in that circumstance. My initial objection had noting to do with whether English was being spoken correctly - only that English was being misunderstood completely. This resulted in some incorrect assumptions being made and, therefore, wrong actions taken.

My next comment directly to Cristiana was because she posted something that made absolutely no sense whatsoever - and bearing in mind that I am married to an English speaking Italian, I feel perfectly qualified to do exactly that. It was others that decided to steam in and attack my initial comments, thereby requiring me to answer. I could, of course, simply ignore everyone on here - but I chose to engage whilst I am here.

So, in my opinion, there are two issues running here. the first one is what, if anything, can be done to help the new board controller in her new job - hampered as she is with limited understanding of colloquial English. The second issue is one where there seem to be changes in how advertising is handled here. I understand that there is an absolute need for advertising on the magazine. I fail to see how a badly worded - in fact it was more of a non-worded - link to an advert on the magazine could help sell advertising space here. The fact that the ad link resulted in many posters objecting would tend to support the view that direct posting of advertisements is not something that should be considered to be either a sensible, or an effective advertising vehicle. I certainly wouldn't want my adverts put into a situation where they could be criticised quite openly and, possibly, unfairly by uncontrollable posters - as many of you guys are!

The final point in this, my final diatribe on the subject, is that the whole situation is inflamed and confused by other posters misreading the meaning or intent of posts. The resulting attacks and defences take the whole issue away from the intention of the original remark and cause much dissent. This then carries on to other areas and posts where smoking guns are seen where none actually exist. Of course, there will always be some posters that are really only seeking a "bit of fun" and see a spot of argument-picking as a part of their remit on life. Still, you can't win them all, eh?

"Firstly, you should know that I am married to an Italian[B] that [/B]learned English at university...."

Hmm. Nuff said. :bigergrin:

[quote=Cristiana;101720]"A pretty stone house in vernacular Apulian style, the cream-hued Villa Arco brings together the best of traditional architecture and new build comfort..."

Read more:
[url=http://www.italymag.co.uk/italy-featured/puglia/villa-arco-san-vito-dei-normanni-apulia]Villa Arco, San Vito dei Normanni, Apulia | Italy Magazine[/url][/quote]

Am I missing something here? Cristiana has posted 37 times and been thanked 17 times. She promised to join in, add value to the Forum and was warmly welcomed. She then apparently made the decision by herself, to delete a thread started by P. Newman and in doing so, did not abide by the Forum Rules. Her fingers were burnt but she was new to the job.

Cristiana then posts the above thread which again breaks the rules. I don't know why she chose to post it but Ronald has offered an explanation. I have to agree with Torchy, if you give a person the authority to act on your behalf, you must ensure that they have been trained and would act as you would act in the same circumstances. If Cristiana is unsure about the Forum rules particularly about advertising, why did she not check with Ronald first?

A new team member needs encouragement and ongoing support before they can stand alone. No one expects Cristiana to be totally familiar with the Forum "rule book" nor the with the English language, but now, I do expect her to check things with Ronald before posting them. She has been given a position of responsibility but needs more time before making decisions by herself. No matter her nationality or language skills, she has joined the Forum and like all us us must abide by the rules. It has nothing what so ever to do with her understanding of the English language and it's nuances.

I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.
I must not rise to Anastasia's bait.

(Sorry - "sempre")

Nardini, of course I understood your post - just as I understood Cristianas posts - and that's EXACTLY the point I am (so clumsily) trying to make to you.

However, should I choose to, I could intentionally misunderstand your post and train myself into believing that you are attemting to send me some kind of subliminal message by suggesting that it is I who is seeking a "bit of fun" and see a spot of argument-picking as a part of my remit on life.

Thankfully, I'm not intelligent enough to allow myself to wander down that path.

Now, all I hope to do is to reach an amicable end to this debate where you don't feel slighted and Cristiana doesn't feel as if she is on trial ever again. :smile:

PS - Even with the intentionally garbled Italian you posted I can still "get the gist" of what is said - so should I seek gainful employment with Babblefish?

#51 (permalink) Today, 03:39 PM
Sally Donaldson Patrician Join Date: May 2006Posts: 4,075 Thanks: 1,092Thanked 3,027 Times in 1,188 Posts

(Hey don't you have a job already with TWA and in fact you have been newly promoted to Head Office in London??? lol (Is this town big enough for the two of us I wonder) Your typing in the last couple of days has been impeccable but then you have had plenty of practice!!! lol)

Now Sally I am not getting at you but using your post as an example.

This post makes no sense to me whatsoever, who is in TWA? Is TWA referring to Trans World Airlines? Does TWA still exist? Is this directed at Julian? Surely London is big enough to contain more then one large ego? Whose large ego am I talking about? Whose typing is impeccable? Isn’t Julian’s typing always so? What significance is there in how much practice they have had?

You see, that post may have some deep and significant meaning to someone but to me it makes no sense…and I speak English. How on earth is Cristina supposed to understand what goes on here on the forum?

P.s. For some reason this post would not come up as a quote so I copied it

Ah must have been deleting as I was pposting sorry!