3388 Architetto/Geometra

Im trying to enlist the services of either an architetto or geometra to firstly, carry out priliminary drawings (of our extensivly thought out and researched development plans) for our property near Lanciano. In order that we may seek the English equivilent of outline planning permission. And, secondly, to draw up the specific structural detailing etc., if outline permission is granted by the Comuni.

For reference wish to raise the roof line 500mm and add a logia to the front of the property with the addition of a small bathroom window.

We have someone who is taking on the project manager role and therefore we want to avoid the typical 8-10% fee, that I understand, that these professionals charge on all building works undertaken on the property.

English or German speaking wood be an advantage.

Any advice would be greatly received.

Category
Building/Renovation

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 14:40

Lanciano near Ortona? Let me know and I'll pm you the contact details for an english speaking architect.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 18:18

Fees charged by geometras and architects are negotiable, and the better ones are more than willing to give you a detailed estimate of the charges which they will make for their services (rather than working on a percentage basis).

However, you should understand that either of these two professionals carry a very much greater responsibility than they do in Britain: the "director of works" is, in effect "the building inspector" - there is not the English local authority control system for either the quality or the correctness of the construction work - it is your own professional who carries out these duties, together with the responsibility for site safety, and necessarily these professionals carry indemnity insurance which is very expensive. (England tried to implement this same system back in the late eighties, but it didn't succeed because none of the insurance companies were willing to offer affordable cover to independent "self certifiers".)

On the planning side, "outline planning permission" is the bit which an architect or geometra does verbally with the comune before making the application. It doesn't exist (or to be more accurate has no relevance to restructuring works) in any formal way.

If you find a willing professional, you will see from the estimate of fees which they will provide, various entries covering a number of esoteric reports from engineers, geologists, etc. etc., which are (or probably will be) required as supporting documents to the application. I would also expect them to be able to provide you with an estimate of the fees required by the local comune (which you may prefer to regard as a form of hidden taxation).

So - to sum up - you cannot do this stuff on the cheap!

Good luck

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 04/26/2006 - 03:18

[LEFT][COLOR=black]Planning permission and [I]concessioni d’edilizia[/I] (permisson to build) are issued by the comune in accordance with the provisions as set out by law. Only authorised [I]comun[/I]e officials can issue this permission. [/COLOR]
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With regards to who does what…this is how it works according to the regulations: To submit an application for building permission or a DIA you need the signature (this is compulsory) of a [I]tecnico abilitato[/I] (architect or civil engineer for complex or large jobs and a [I]Geometra[/I] or [I]Perito Edile[/I] for smaller, less complex jobs)
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If you appoint a [I]Geometra[/I] or architect to do the preliminary work you are of course under no legal obligation to award the impending contract, providing you make this clear from the start, but you must pay for whatever services have been provided early on in the process.
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Normally, when you appoint a competent, professional architect or [I]Geometra[/I] to handle the entire project, [B][U]there is no need to hire a separate project manager[/U][/B]. You would be wasting your money because the professional [I]tecnico[/I] will cover this task. In any case, the [I]tecnico [/I]you appoint will also be the Works Director, a role that recognised by law. As Relaxed already points out, these profesionals not only carry indemnity insurance, they shoulder greater responsibility. Unless the project manager you are thinking of using is properly qualified, enrolled or registered, then the simple answer is don't appoint that person.
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Obviously, before appointing any [I]tecnico [/I]it would be wise to establish and agree fees and contractual conditions beforehand and put this down in writing. I know of a number of cases where people have appointed a [I]tecnico,[/I] designers and tradesmen with very few formalities involved, relying simply on the strength of verbal agreements with disastrous results.

[COLOR=black]In particular, one couple I know were presented with a bill for extra work that wasn’t authorised, but in the absence of a written agreement they are having difficulties to prove their case and have been taken to court because they didn’t want to pay the bill. [/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black]Bear in mind that once they issue an invoice for services rendered, professional architects, [I]Geometras [/I]and registered builders enjoy preferential channels that enable them to enforce debtors to fulfil their obligations. Where a party fails to pay an invoice for example, the creditor can seek a hearing with a judge to order a Judgement to be issued against the debtor. This Judgement is called a [I]decreto ingiuntivo[/I]. Once issued it must be defended. If you do nothing and the Judgement stands, further action can be taken to seize any of your assets.[/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black]In other words, if you are not careful, you may have very little grounds for seeking remedial action (in addition to the time, aggravation and expense involved) in the event of a dispute. You [/COLOR]need to be aware that:
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[I]Quod non est in actis non est in mundo[/I] - anything not written down does not exist. In the absence of a written agreement/contract, once a dispute goes to court the jurist has to weigh up the merits of the case by drawing on the various articles of the Codice Civile. This is a costly, protracted affair.

[I][COLOR=black]Ignorantia juris non excusat [/COLOR][/I][COLOR=black]– ignorance of the law excuses no one. In fact, the law doesn’t admit ignorance.[/COLOR]
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Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 04/26/2006 - 04:58

Thank you all for you considered replies, they are very much appreciated!

To confirm, the property is in Sant Eusanio del Sangro near Ortona.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 05/31/2006 - 16:02

When you find an English speaking Geometra or Engineer etc, can you let me know as I'm also trying to find one.
Thank you.