3455 By the book?

Buy the magazine!!

Depending on your level of understanding, general interest mags like Oggi, Gente are wonderful for vocabulary. They will cover an earthquake story, a shipwreck story, a triplets story, a showbiz story - so you have a pretty good idea of in what sort of field the words are going to be relevant! Then, you could use Focus, and progress to Panorama or l'Espresso (but forget trying to understand the politics) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!
This applies also in the UK - it is easy to ask your newsagent to order Oggi or Gente every week, and the Italian is pretty correct, though uncomplicated. Even women's mags like Grazie, and Marie Claire cover a lot of ground (and have nice fashion features).
Learning should be fun :) :)

[LEFT][B]Kim & David,[/B]

I found when I started studying that the first of these would be to read a book or newspaper to get the gist of the construction of the language.

Then I found that listening to Italian audio magazines such as [I]Acquerello Italiano [/I](a bit pricey for beginners, but I would say invaluable for more advanced students) will help with your listening skills.

Conversation groups are very useful for the exchange of ideas and each person can help the other when errors occur.

I've never been a fan of radio and I personally would put this at the bottom of my list of priorities.

Some people learn faster by reading, others by speaking and listening. Once you have identified your preference, go with that first.

[B]SIMON.[/B]
[/LEFT]

I think that radio is for the more advanced student - but listening to some exquisite speaker on philosophy, or some other intellectual subject, on Radio Tre, one does suddenly understand that Italian is a very simple language - and that translating English constructions into Italian is a futile endeavour.
This appreciation of precision Italian is not a lot of use in the supermarket though - so if you have the chance of conversation lessons, make sure you persuade your tutor to talk about the subjects you need to "chat" about every day.

I personally like the radio, I'm at night school at the moment and its going very slowly, but when I'm at home I use the radio through my pc and have is on while I do the cleaning. Although at the moment I cant understand most of it I can pick out the odd word which gives me the encouragement to carry on.

Hi

Now this may seem really stupid but I bought two childrens books on my last visit, and to be honest they are really helping. (my philosphy was that if they can teach a child to read they should help me).

So everyday I sit down with Valentina starts school and my trusty dictionary and it seems a little stupid but it's working for me.

My latest method for trying to learn the language is to buy dvd's (in Italy) that have the various options for language and sub titles. Last night I watched Il Postino, listening in Italian and furiously attempting to read the sub titles. It was hard work but a lovely story. I recommend that you experiment with any special offer dvds first to see if it is right for you without spending a lot of money. I also have a childrens book and after 5 weeks am up to page 20!
Best of luck
Stephi

[QUOTE=tuscanhills]What's the best way to polish my language?
[list]
[*]Should I listen to the radio?
[*]Should I read books?
[*]Should I get CDs out from the library?
[*]Should I find a conversation group?
[/list]
OK, everyone's different, but is there a [i]silver bullet[/i]?[/QUOTE]

Go for it all and as frequently as you can. Even living here we are finding it difficult. Reading, writing, listening, understanding etc is OK but speaking with Italians is really what we find one neds the most practice with.

[LEFT]Have a look at this website:-

[URL="http://www.dvd.it"]http://www.dvd.it[/URL]

It looks quite comprehensive and you should find a massive range of Italian language DVDs on there at prices lower than you might find here in the UK.

[B]SIMON[/B]

[/LEFT]

All, though I'd personally be wary of the conversation group, especially if you're all non-native learners. It's fine if there's a teacher present correcting but if it's just an informal group you may pick up other people's mistakes as well as reinforce your own. (I speak from bitter experience.) I've never quite understood why but reading really, really helps for me, my teachers over the years have even remarked upon it. Yes, why not children's books and/or even comics. I've never had a TV in Italy but I know when I studied French at university, watching serious French TV programmes (of which there's an abundance) helped enormously with fluency.

Watching Euronews on Sky in Italian. Very useful!

Also, listening to the radio during the day is helpful... turning the music down & news on the hour up (can't have non stop chat channels at work lol)...

Occasionally I find an Italian gossipy mag at WH Smiths. Nicely entertaining! ;)

If you've not found it already I would recommend Italian for Dummies and to watch as many dvds as possible in italian with english subs. Children's cartoons are particuarly good as there are fewer words.

Most people get very hooked up on grammar, but in my experience its far better to collect as many words and phrases as possible to practice the spoken word, and of course if you know the word for something, you can always make yourself understood.

Once you feel more confident, then crack the grammar. I also learnt to say 'I am sorry for my Italian, I don't know enough words yet, and my grammar is rubbish'. For my efforts, our lovely locals then give me free lessons all the time. Any effort is worth it, and I love the Italian spoken word. What kind and forgiving people they are, when I am managing to murder the language!

[LEFT]
I was thinking I might buy a few audio books when I'm over there next. I figured the pace and clarity, and the fact that you can follow the text, would be ideal. Has anyone seen them on the shelves in Italy?

BTW - started using this on my phone:

[URL="http://www.mobi-systems.com/product-info.asp?ID=200"]Oxford Pocket Italian dictionary[/URL]

Great value at 29 euro (Nokia Software market). It's perfect. I no longer need to carry a dictionary. Does Italian-English and English-Italian.

[/LEFT]

I feel like using a bullet on myself after butchering the Italian language for a while, does that count?

I have found that you have to be careful with the subtitles on DVD's. Quite often I have noticed that whatever way round you try, they don't match. I even tried Italian language and saw the Italian subtitles said something else.

I have a friend who when he finds out I have missed the conversation, will repeat the last 10 minutes or so, slowly and without dialect. I find it works really well, but some times the humiliation of being treated like the village idiot is too much to bear:o :(

When I was learning Spanish in school most of the students were trying to get into the "Conversational Spanish" class. I tried that too, but was one of the unlucky ones that was stuck with the traditional Spanish class. This required speaking, learning the grammar and writing the language. I was not happy about that, lol!

Anyway, in retrospect I can see the benefits of the experience. In learning Italian we've got the books and CD's, listen to music and watch Italian movies when we can, but I really want to learn the tough stuff like the grammar and writing from a teacher. I know I'm going to make a bunch of mistakes, be frustrated thinking I can't remember a thing (what's wrong with my mind that I can't remember something I just learned?) but I do want to be able to read and write Italian. I see the benefits of being able to read and write Spanish (although not very well) and have found my understanding of grammar will be useful for learning another Latin language.

Interesting reading some of the replies to this question as I have been learning Italian here in Vinci, Tuscany for the past four years at a local school.I don't pay anything for the lessons which are twice a week from 9-11pm and are split into three levels and you normally do a simple written test to establish which level and therefore which class you start in.I've learnt more about grammar in these lessons than I ever did in an English class, (how did I ever gain an O level in English Language?).
If you visit your local Commune, (Town Hall), and ask about 'Italiano per Stranieri' they will tell if you if they run these courses.
Good Luck

Wow Ian, cool! Thanks. This is just the type of thing I would like. I'm hoping the Commune we move into has a 'Italiano per Stranieri' class like yours! :)

Well done to point out these free access courses run by the comunes. I know that one of our local comunes holds these courses - I think they are primarily designed to teach foriegn people who have come to Italy to work in fairly low paid jobs - but they are also open to anyone who chooses to enrol.
All teaching (not only of the Italian language) seems to be fairly "techical" here - focussing on the nuts and bolts of grammar, or formally learning by rote - which is quite funny when you realise that even dealing with bureaucracy is seldom a formal affair in real life!

When I started to learn Italian, over 10 years ago now, I started with books which gave me a basic knowledge of common used words and phrases. I then found a native Italian speaker who could give my some private tuition which helped immensely. The biggest help, though, was TV. On the RAI channels they often have programs and telefilms with subtitles in English. After a few weeks hearing the dialogue in Italian and reading the English subtitles became easier and of everything, that helped me the most. L'ispettore Derrick became my most watched program! (Awful german telefilm, dubbed into Italian, used to be on RAI DUE on Monday evenings years ago)

Now I can easily follow a conversation on the phone, and on the radio (which, without visual clues to what is being said I always found the hardest in the beginning) My biggest weakness now is written Italian, I've never really had to use it.

[quote=Jay3gsm]....The biggest help, though, was TV. On the RAI channels they often have programs and telefilms with subtitles in English......[/quote]

[LEFT]Thanks Jay3gsm, that's useful......What's the easiest way to get RAI in the UK?[/LEFT]

[QUOTE=Jay3gsm]....... L'ispettore Derrick became my most watched program! (Awful german telefilm, dubbed into Italian, used to be on RAI DUE on Monday evenings years ago)....
[/QUOTE]

OMG that's desperate!! :D

I remember Derrick from Germany, watched an episode of that long running tele series once when I was much younger (yes, he just won't die!) and never again... sent me to sleep!! ~yawn~

Now, CSI in Italian would be something I'd watch... ;)

Is it the one with the Alsatian? I wonder how many dogs have played the part :) :) I think it is Austrian rather than German, originally - but even better in Italian!

I think it is quite easy to get RAI in England, off the Hotbird satellite at 13 degrees east of south, with any digital receiver.

Nope that's another series again with the dog ... yes, I think it was Austrian. Never watched any of 'em...

We've got Sky so can't get it... back to Euronews in Italiano it is... :(

Sky have TV5 & some Spanish channels so I should really complain for them to get an Italian one too!!

:cool: [QUOTE=Iona]Nope that's another series again with the dog ... yes, I think it was Austrian. Never watched any of 'em...

We've got Sky so can't get it... back to Euronews in Italiano it is... :(

Sky have TV5 & some Spanish channels so I should really complain for them to get an Italian one too!![/QUOTE]

I too ha ve Sky TV & get very frustrated that you can get channels in Urdu, Bengali, German, French, Welsh etc etc but nothing in ITALIAN. I wonder why?

Now that Berlu has time on his hands perhaps he will set about giving Murdoch a run for his money but I doubt it. :rolleyes:

I personally would try a mixture of all you mentioned. What is invaluable is chatting with the locals, you learn the dialect, words you cannot learn from text books, courses etc.

[quote=Rina]:cool:

I too ha ve Sky TV & get very frustrated that you can get channels in Urdu, Bengali, German, French, Welsh etc etc but nothing in ITALIAN. I wonder why?[/quote]

[LEFT]I e-mailed Sky and asked them if they had plans to include an Italian language channel on the Sky UK platform. Their computer said NO. However, my enquiry has been "passed to the relevant department in view of my interest, for their information".

Elsewhere in the forums, there was reference to RAI CLICK.

[URL="http://www.raiclicktv.it/raiclickpc/secure/homePage.srv"]http://www.raiclicktv.it/raiclickpc/secure/homePage.srv[/URL]

It might be the next best thing to the real channels on TV.

[B]SIMON. :) [/B]

[/LEFT]

.....so why don't we all mail Sky in the UK; it's gonna cost us nothing?

What were the contact details, Simon?

[quote=tuscanhills].....so why don't we all mail Sky in the UK; it's gonna cost us nothing?

What were the contact details, Simon?[/quote]

[LEFT]The Sky Viewer Relations Desk e-mail address is [EMAIL="ViewerR@BSkyB.com"]ViewerR@BSkyB.com[/EMAIL]

Let's hope they get the message.

[B]SIMON.[/B]

[/LEFT]

Done ;)

Let's make a mass mail & get the bu@@ers to show some decent programmes..... people power!

...it'd be good to get our 'forceful' natures acting in for our own collective good rather than against one another; united we stand

:D

Also done. It will be interesting to see how they respond.

Nice one PH......I can [b]feel[/b] the love already!

[QUOTE=Simone][LEFT]I e-mailed Sky and asked them if they had plans to include an Italian language channel on the Sky UK platform. Their computer said NO. However, my enquiry has been "passed to the relevant department in view of my interest, for their information".

Elsewhere in the forums, there was reference to RAI CLICK.

[URL="http://www.raiclicktv.it/raiclickpc/secure/homePage.srv"]http://www.raiclicktv.it/raiclickpc/secure/homePage.srv[/URL]

It might be the next best thing to the real channels on TV.

[B]SIMON. :) [/B]

[/LEFT][/QUOTE]

If you want to watch other Italian Tv stations online, try
[url]www.coolstreaming.us[/url]

There are plenty of Italian channels there, including local TV stations (you can also find TV PADRE PIO!)

[QUOTE=tuscanhills][LEFT]Thanks Jay3gsm, that's useful......What's the easiest way to get RAI in the UK?[/LEFT][/QUOTE]

To get RAI in the UK you really need to get a satellite system for it. There's plenty of sites on the web that advertise compatible equipment. You'll be looking around £200 plus whatever it is to install. A lot of money but definitely worth doing as you get RAI UNO, DUE, TRE, RETE Quattro, Canale Cinque, Italia UNO and some other channels.

[QUOTE=Relaxed]Is it the one with the Alsatian? I wonder how many dogs have played the part :) :) I think it is Austrian rather than German, originally - but even better in Italian![/QUOTE]

That was il Commissario Rex. Awful program, too. :)

My email has been sent to SKY. Lets hope they take notice.

As Italian who "loves all things English" I can tell you how I learnt English, maybe the same way could work fine in the opposite direction, who knows...
I read someone in this forum suggesting to buy DVDs with Italian sub-titles, that's a great idea. [url]www.cdflash.com[/url] is a good source where you can find thousands of movies in Italian (on DVD), there you will probably find your favorite one dubbed in Italian. You probably know that foreign movies broadcasted in Italy are dubbed in Italian but they usually have subtitles in English (I mean, DVD versions have for sure Italian and English subtitles if the original language of the movie was English) and vice versa. I used this system to learn English and it really worked…watch the movie in Italian with English subtitles and then make the reverse, watch in English with Italian subtitles. You can teach yourself this way, but you should assist your learning process with some good books. We usually notice that English speaking people have problems with the rather complex Italian grammar (especially verbs conjugation), to address this issue I suggest you to by a primary school grammar textbook (grammatica per scuole elementari – [url]www.ibs.it[/url] is a good Italian online bookstore), as someone in this forum already did.
After this first approach and only when you feel you have an "idea" of the Italian grammar, you can try to subscribe to an Italian magazine like Panorama or L'Espresso (the Italian version of Time and Newsweek, even if I like much more the English language counterparts :-) )

Unfortunately the Web Sites I indicated above are in Italian only. If you need help do not hesitate to contact me.

...good luck !

Well sent my e.mail off to Sky let's see what happens, if anything. Viva Italia.

[QUOTE=Jay3gsm]To get RAI in the UK you really need to get a satellite system for it. There's plenty of sites on the web that advertise compatible equipment. You'll be looking around £200 plus whatever it is to install.[/QUOTE]

If you fancy having a go yourself, you can get all the kit for [url=http://tinyurl.com/qgymp]£69.99 at Maplins[/url].

Well, see what you can make of this response:

"Dear Peter

Thank you for your e-mail regarding Italian channels on Sky.

Please allow me to explain. Sky Italia are a European company and only broadcast their services in Europe.

Furthermore, Sky is unable to refuse carriage to any channel which shows an interest in broadcasting on our platform, and holds a broadcasting licence.

However, your interest in this has been noted and passed to the relevant department for their information.

I trust I have been able to assist with your enquiry. If you require any further help, please contact me at the above address.

If you would like more information on our services and packages, or you simply want to see what is going on in the world of News, Sport, Movies or Entertainment, please log onto [url]www.sky.com[/url]

"What do you want to watch? "

Thank you for taking the time to contact Sky.

Kind regards

Debbie Tant
Viewer Relations"

Strange, but I thought that the UK was a part of Europe, and has been for 32 years (alas). What Debbie has said generally strikes me as a non-reason.
Ho hum!

"SKY and the SKY marks are trade marks of British Sky Broadcasting Group plc and are used under licence. British Sky Broadcasting Limited Registration No. 2906991), Sky Interactive Limited (Registration No. 3554332) and Sky Subscribers Services Limited (Registration No. 2340150) are direct or indirect subsidiaries of British Sky Broadcasting Group plc (Registration No. 2247735). All of the companies mentioned in this paragraph are incorporated in England and Wales and share the same registered office at Grant Way, Isleworth, Middlesex TW7 5QD."

Just in case you want to snail mail them!!!

Sir,

Horsham is in West Sussex, not Europe!

Europe is abroad somewhere, or so I am led to believe. :D

I got the same reply (word for word!) this morning & bounced it back to them saying it failed to answer my question as it dodn't say:
[list]
[*]What plans they had to get Italian language channels?
[*]When do they anticipate getting them?
[*]Do they want me to go and ask for them?
[*]What, who, when etc....
[/list]

Hmmm agree, Peter! If Sky Italia is European, then Sky Espana would be the same?? Also, we easily have far Eastern channels (for large communities, so rightly so) of countries outside Europe... so how come a European company can't broadcast in the UK???

Maybe we should set up a petition & collect signatures?? ;)

Nice one, David! I like your Rottweiler attitude... :D

[QUOTE=Ric]If you fancy having a go yourself, you can get all the kit for [url=http://tinyurl.com/qgymp]£69.99 at Maplins[/url].[/QUOTE]

Excellent, that's a great price. I'll have myself one of those :D

[QUOTE=Peter Head]Well, see what you can make of this response:

"Dear Peter

Thank you for your e-mail regarding Italian channels on Sky.

Please allow me to explain. Sky Italia are a European company and only broadcast their services in Europe.

Furthermore, Sky is unable to refuse carriage to any channel which shows an interest in broadcasting on our platform, and holds a broadcasting licence.

However, your interest in this has been noted and passed to the relevant department for their information.

I trust I have been able to assist with your enquiry. If you require any further help, please contact me at the above address.

If you would like more information on our services and packages, or you simply want to see what is going on in the world of News, Sport, Movies or Entertainment, please log onto [url]www.sky.com[/url]

"What do you want to watch? "

Thank you for taking the time to contact Sky.

Kind regards

Debbie Tant
Viewer Relations"

Strange, but I thought that the UK was a part of Europe, and has been for 32 years (alas). What Debbie has said generally strikes me as a non-reason.
Ho hum!

"SKY and the SKY marks are trade marks of British Sky Broadcasting Group plc and are used under licence. British Sky Broadcasting Limited Registration No. 2906991), Sky Interactive Limited (Registration No. 3554332) and Sky Subscribers Services Limited (Registration No. 2340150) are direct or indirect subsidiaries of British Sky Broadcasting Group plc (Registration No. 2247735). All of the companies mentioned in this paragraph are incorporated in England and Wales and share the same registered office at Grant Way, Isleworth, Middlesex TW7 5QD."

Just in case you want to snail mail them!!![/QUOTE]

Hi Peter,

I live in Romania (Bucharest) and I watch Sky TV thanks to a quite big antenna (120 cm diameter). The signal strength is very good.
I subscribed in Italy and I pay the subscription online and everything works just fine. I don't see any reason why you cannot do the same.

[quote=sergiobuonanno]Hi Peter,

I leave in Romania (Bucharest) and I watch Sky TV thanks to a quite big antenna (120 cm diameter). The signal strength is very good.
I subscribed in Italy and I pay the subscription online and everything works just fine. I don't see any reason why you cannot do the same.[/quote]

[LEFT]I think the point being made is that as there is already a French, German and Spanish language channel available to existing Sky UK subscribers, why not have an Italian one as well, without the need to go out and buy even more dishes and pay even more money. :) :)

[B]SIMON.[/B]

[/LEFT]

I emailed Sky too, and as per others earlier on in the thread, got the standard email as an answer.

I sent it back stating that they hadn't addressed the question I asked, and this is the new reply:

[QUOTE]Dear Ric

Thank you for your email about Italian channels.

Firstly, I am sorry if you feel we did not address the points in your previous email with regard to Italian channels.

Please allow me to explain; that Sky operate an open platform and we are always willing to discuss carriage with independent broadcasters, however, it is up to individual channels to decide which platform to broadcast their channels through.

As you have previously been advised, currently there are no Italian channels available on our platform, however, please be rest assured, that I have noted your interest and passed this on to the relevant department for their information.

I hope that this email clarifies our position and that your future enjoyment of Sky will not be affected.

Kind regards

Helen Dewar
Viewer Relations[/QUOTE]

So it seems everyone needs to lobby Rai and other Italian broadcasters to approach Sky UK to transmit their channels. :confused: :D

Just off the subject of sky for a sec.... One really good way i've found to improve pronounciation and learn fun new vocab, is to sing italian pop songs. You can easily download the lyrics (just search the song name and the word lyrics in google) and sing along. I particularly like singing jovanotti and vasco rossi. The music isnt so great, but they sing pretty clearly so you can hear the pronounciation really well.....even if my flatmates do think im crazy.....:D :eek: :) :confused: Sally xx lalalalala

We noticed that one of our local Italian ristorante's had RAI DUE when we dined there recently.

We asked her about it and we have now installed a system known as HOTBIRD. The reciever and satellite dish cost circa £200 from our local TV shop. In addition to most of the RAI channels, Canale 5, SAT2000, we can receive Italian regional TV and Sky 24 Meteo which is an excellent weather channel.

There are no monthly costs, unless you subscribe to Italian SKY, but you will need to edit the 20 or so Italian channels from the 500+ on the satellite.

[QUOTE=Ric]If you fancy having a go yourself, you can get all the kit for [url=http://tinyurl.com/qgymp]£69.99 at Maplins[/url].[/QUOTE]

I purchased the digital kit from Maplins, £99.99 The dish comes 'flat-pack' style but is very easy to put together. To install yourself you can get a bleeper from Maplins for around £15, you'll also need a bracket and pole for the dish.

Simply attach the bracket to the house, (The dish will point same side as SKY so if you or neighbours have SKY the dish goes the same side of the house) attach the dish to the bracket (all fittings for attaching the dish are included in the box) and use the bleeper to home in on the signal on the Hotbird satellite. You then simply run the cable (which is also extra) from the dish to the decoder. The decoder is fully programmed, the six Italian channels are the first six in the list. And that is it.

Having a genuine fear of ladders, I paid someone to do it for me :D

I now have RAI and Mediaset and I am extremely happy.

Another good resource for beginners is kid's TV programming. I recorded a bunch of shows from RAISAT Ragazzi when we lived in Italy and from time to time I watch them with my daughter. Our favorites are Teletubbies and Il Postino Pat. Yes, I know it sounds silly for an adult to watch this type of programming but I find I can actually understand about 90% of the dialogue :)