12089 province of Aquila hit by earthquake

it seems now that thre are victims...reports coming in of two at fossa... and they are carrying images on Rai 3 of L'Aquila... covered in dust and many buildings damaged.... and that although the biggest population centre was not at the earthquake centre...

for those of us with children here its just been announced that all schools in abruzzo are closed today...presume they have to do safety checks...

the breaking news of four young children being found dead in a building i think is just the start of a tragic day///

reports also suggest that the actual size of the quake at the epicentre measured between 8 and 9 ... and in the city of Aquila at the moment they are getting tremors everything ten minutes or so... people reporting from there are in tears as they have been under a strain since last year with frequent tremors with some people having been sleeping in their cars as fears grew that something bad was going to arrive..

anyway this seems to be a pretty devastating event.... and am sure that it will be reported widely so news will be on all the major channels...

anyone travelling here via rome is going to have a hard trip as they have closed the whole motorway again to check bridges and tunnels... for now Abruzzo is cut off from that side of the country

the main road through the gran sasso tunnel has been shut

telephone lines into the area are down so don't worry if you have to call someone its a widespread cut... and a lack of response or news could well be due to this rather than any problem with the person you wish to contact.... should imagine that even some mobile systems will be out as well..

a disaster of this magnitude is going to take a while to get to grips with and news on a personal level might well be hard to arrive at... many will be unable to get to communicate that they are safe... so better to hope that all is well and that its just part of the widespread telecommunication problems...

Our sincere thoughts to anyone affected, please God keep them safe.

Terrible news, particularly as we do not know how many victims there are although we do know about the four children. The TV coverage was saying that it was 5.8 on Richter's scale but the damage could suggest a stronger earthquake. Our thoughts and prayers go to all those in the area.

for anyone willing or interested in practicalities of helping here there are appeals for blood donations ...

this actually is not just in abruzzo... as the hospital in L'Aquila is one of the buildings that has closed patients are having to be flown off to areas as far afield as rome...

anyway there is a national system here so blood given anywhere in Italy will help

as for the quake... well here in Teramo it was no worse than being on a ship in a storm...in fact a lot less... just 20 seconds and all done...the aftershocks hardly felt at all... however it was obvious that something big had occured and the history of recent days... even one geologist going against all his colleagues and even predicting this was going to be a big one soon... then being accused of raing the level of panic ... just maybe help to save a few lives as some people living in the area had been sleeping in cars

... worse hit areas outside of the immediate area have been those areas of Lazio that border L'Aquila , in Sora there have been casualties and building problems .. and Rome has had an apartment building evacuated ..

Thanks for these updates .The forum is really helping to keep those of us in the UK up to date with events.

What a sad day.

just watched an interview with the committee chairperson of the campobasso / molise earthquake where the school was destroyed in 2002 ... that earthquake stretched into the far south of Abruzzo...

recentley although condemened on appeal the people that constructed the new school including the mayor and architect basically got away with ignoring building regs

the mans point is that in L'Aquila apart from the older properties that have been destroyed once again it is children that have suffered dramatically in what is a ,major quake which in other areas of the world would have resulted in far fewer victims ... that once again public buildings...eg the new hospital of Aquila have proved to have structural faults and basically if ever caught in an earthquake in Italy make sure you escape quickly from any public structure...or church...which appear exempt from rules regarding structural integrity...

as the death toll rises... now 50 ... and counting... and the injured have to be ferried out of the area because a new hospital is unsafe anger is building against local public administrations here that would rather line their own pockets than build safe buildings....

highly relevant accusations as the old regional administration of Abruzzo was recently sacked due to taking funds from the health system ... hopefully the new president of the region ... will continue to prove a more honest choice than those of the past... although he has to fight against a mass of corruption in each of the provincial governments here down to the local comunes... and their habits of taking our tax and passing it onto their friends...

once again its people that have proved the heroes working in dangerous wreckage with bare hands to pull people free ... and the emergencey services have struggled hard since early morning... many of the deaths result from suffocation from the dust caused by the collapsing buildings... and the towns are covered in this fine dust

latest news about the road closure is that they are hoping to open the A24 roma / l'aquila tomorrow

I have just heard the awful news. I have friends in Bugnara, near Sulmona, who I rang yesterday. I cannot now get through to them.

Hello Everyone,

My name is Paola and I own Ancient Properties. We are in the province of Chieti. We felt the shake but fortunately it ended there.
My agency, besides selling properties, is involved in renovations and our staff is composed of certified engineer, geologist and architect. I would be most happy to help anyone in need. Please feel free to email me even for just suggestions and I will do my best to help.
I will also have a meeting with the staff this afternoon because I am thinking to do some probono work in the area. If anyone wants to join me, please contact me.

[quote=Sally Donaldson;115505]I have just heard the awful news. I have friends in Bugnara, near Sulmona, who I rang yesterday. I cannot now get through to them.[/quote]

Try not to worry too much Sally, many phone lines are down, including mobile masts I believe.

barn elms did a posting in another earthquake thread when someone erroneously said their had been major damage in Sulmona... a bit of new despite watching the TV since 4.00 this morning managed to pass me by...

anyway he took it upon himself to go into the town of Sulmona and he has posted an eye witness account saying there is no damage in that area... and much like where we live the shaking was felt but no major structural problems... am sure that if that area had been affected and i would say nothing south of popoli has so far been reported as being affected by damage then would have heard by now...

i waited to post on this after watching the news and getting a bit of a grip on some of the early sketchy facts... trying not to panic anyone with friends or relatives in this area of Italy... its a very bad day for those at the epicentre... they are still trying to get into a new student building which collapsed with fifteen missing...

finally our internet and phones have been on and off all morning ... and we are well away from the worst... so can only reiterate the above sentiments ...give it time...before you fear anything bad...

the latest area to appear on the news and which is one that is most probably familiar with many in Abruzzo is the snata stefano development... a new road bridge collapsed into the river and the tower is down...although none of the restored properties have so far been reported as having problems...

Thank God that Sulmona hasn't been affected John, and I can confirm this as my friends in Bugnara, a few minutes from Sulmona, have thankfully contacted me, saying they too escaped damage.

This is the Avis page where you can search for your local office to donate blood, if anyone can help out.
[URL="http://www.avis.it/usr_view.php/ID=629"]http://www.avis.it/usr_view.php/ID=629[/URL]

I am in the Chieti region close to Casoli and Lanciano, we felt a sway for about 5 seconds, I ran into my childrens room and it stopped, I have friends heading further in land towards Roccaraso and they said they felt it but nothing has been reported damaged.
This is the reality of many European countries, it is devastating when it happens but the whole of Italy has to live with this every day not just Abruzzo.
I only hope that the casualties are low, I understand up to 50.

Berlusconi is giving a Press Conference right now and those in the UK can see it - [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7459669.stm]BBC NEWS | Video and Audio | News Channel Live | BBC News Channel[/url]

The Press Conference is over but there is still continuing news coverage on the BBC website.

I have friends in the Teramo region and I understand there has been some damage up there, does anyone know if there are parts up there badly damaged?

they have reported 1500 injured and 92 dead as of now... and this is not a final toll

they have been working now for 12 hours non stop with new crews from as far north as Torino arriving into the area to take over from exhausted rescue workers...

in fact the reaction and the help has arrived on the scene from outside Abruzzo very quickly.. however the job of searching has to start by hand to not disturb fragile buildings or add to injuries...

after a meeting with berlusconi and chiodi the president of the region it has been decided that no school can re-open until it has been certified as safe ... with civil protection workers and fire crews working on the main disaster areas it seems that children will not be returning to school before easter ... they were due to finish here wednesday

friends that work in Teramo public offices have been told to go home as cracks have been found in some of the public buildings

tragically too as if the emergency services do not have enough to deal with and tragedy has not hit this population beyond any reason... they have to assign people to protect property as the first arrests have taken place of people robbing damaged or unoccupied properties

a sort of ambulance chasing exercise i am shore will be the next issue as others jump on the band wagon of trying to earn out of misfortune of others... a sad world

positively the bakers union of Italy has offered to supply free bread to the area for as long as the emergency exists and there are many many more offers of solidarity and help arriving from all over... including many already giving blood...

evacuation of the population for the night is to be aided by the taking over of the hotels along the adriatic coast .. and families are being moved there now

at times like this we see the worse and best ...

they have just asked people to stop giving blood.. they have got too much now...

Whilst I said to myself I'd refrain from posting on this forum any longer, the events of this morning have compelled me to set my feelings to one side.

For those of you that know us, we have a large house on the outskirts of Teramo. We have 2 rooms that are not being used, as it is closed season. There are 5 other bedrooms, but they have no beds.

I know that it is only a small gesture, but with 50,000 people potentially without a home, we would like to offer a roof over a few peoples head for a few days, if they have nowhere to go.

If you know of anyone, desparate for accommodation, we will do what we can for them. Please send me a private message.

but there for the grace........

Russ

How generous of you Russ.

[quote=Vigneverde;115542]I have an American client who is very upset because she cannot reach her family they live in Tagliacozzo does anyone know if this place is affected.[/quote]
From what I see on GoogleEarth, Tagliacozzo is about 40 km Southwest from the epicentre of this morning's big earthquake. Our place is closer, at about 30 km East of it.

Here, we had 30 seconds or so of very unpleasant shaking that I don't want to experience again any time soon. The crockery and glasses in the kitchen were clattering away merrily as we staggered through heading for our daughter's bedroom and the damper in the wood-fired stove was clanging like a bell while the water in its boiler sloshed about very noisily. However, the only noticeable effects of the shaking were that an electric whisk sitting on a shelf fell over and there are some new cracks around the recently-installed stove, since it seems that it and the surround were not actually attached to the house, but are only sitting on the floor.

There's been no damage whatsoever to the structure of our farmhouse which is very old with the traditional metre-thick walls made of rocks stuck together with who-knows-what. However, the place did have a new roof installed a few years back and, as is normal, had the usual seismic ring (or whatever it's called) put in at the same time.

Earthquakes are notoriously capricious in what buildings they damage and to what degree, but I think your client can be reasonably certain that her relatives have probably not been directly affected. As others have said, there are problems with communications in the L'Aquila area, so this may be the reason for the lack of contact.

Al

Thanks for this I will let thm know, glad to hear you are OK our house swayed but only for a few seconds, do you know if you can gain access to l'aquila because me and a few friends really want to try and help up there if we can get there.

as regards access to L'Aquila the authorities have iterated and re iterated that this is a job for the professional trained rescue services and that they do not require any extra problems ...ie with private citizens turning up in cars...

volunteers from the protection civile are being moved in... but they are volunteers that have been trained in this sort of thing .. not earthquakes but emergencies...

they are basically from what i see evacuating the area to avoid further casualties... and also criminal activity..

they have blocked up to 4000 rooms on the coast and can block up to 10,000 but no one will be forced to leave

the pro loco organisations...the ones that handle all the festas we enjoy in the summer are also setting up filed kitchens and providing food... we were at a bakers this evening who had finished work at 2.00 am .. just about got to sleep when this all started and has baked 50 quintale of bread which has been taken over there and is now just about to start his normal baking...

its frustrating for those of us nearby that cannot be there to help... but there are already problems with organisation and too many people thrown at a situation like this will only add to the confusion .. the offer made by Russ is most probably the best way to help... this will be a long term problem for many... Italy has to say the least an abysmal record regarding the aftermath of serious incidents involving their populations... with scams being engineered by many public and private companies to help access emergencey funds which end up being cut into their own pockets with none of the rebuilding work done...

this is self evident in many of the past disasters here in Italy... the only places ever rebuilt quickly are the churches... whilst civilian populations still reside in portacabins... despite masses of emergencey funding arriving... but seemingly well not seemingly disappearing into the go between abyss

maybe a good place to help for now would be at those resorts on the coast where frightened and exhausted people are arriving

i think for specifics rather than look at the forum here a trip to your local comune or even bar will give you better info on what is happening and where they need help...

I have been listening to different international radio stations and watching both the Spanish and French TV news and there are some things that are puzzling me regarding this tragedy. From what I have heard, many European countries have offered to Italy their specially trained rescue teams, including dogs, to assist with the rescue of victims. Although it is not openly said, you get the impression that the Italian government is not taking advantage of these offers. I can fully understand that volunteers without the proper experience, no matter how big is their desire to help, can cause problems to rescue teams. But, why aren't they taking advantage of the professional help offered? Are any foreign teams currently working in the area? The Italian rescuers must be exhausted by now after so many hours of hard work and you need all the help you can get in order to rescue as many people as possible from those ruins. Every hour, every minute counts to be able to save lives.

thanks for the post, some locals I know have gone up to help and are helping, one has just returned so although they are asking people to stay away they are accepting the help, I hope to go tomorrow and see. I understand that people may get in the way but I cant help thinking there could be 1 person saved if there was more help, I may be wrong, having said that it was good to see a report on the BBC saying that the effort was excellent and there are 5000 searches and modern equipment being used. I think it is a pat on the back for the rescue service's it is times like this when you see how good they are, 16 hour shifts cannot be easy, I only hope for more success.

It looks as if the situation in L'Aquila is so extreme that untrained and inexperienced people turning up could make matters worse.Plus consuming food / water etc needed for the rescue services etc.

If anyone is thinking of going then at least take a hard hat and dust mask.The various dusts re-leased from falling buildings could contain many small and dangerous particles from paint, asbestos and other chemicals that might cause a very severe reaction in some people with asthma etc.

Its only natural to feel that you want to help at a time like this but you'll only hinder rescue services if you get yourselves into a dangerous situation.

Maybe it would be a good idea to go to our local Protezione Civile offices. If they are sending a large amount of their trained volunteers, they may need numbers bolstering at a local level? Also some Comunes have a list of volunteers for emergency situations.

at the moment they are saying here that every collapsed building has a rescue team assigned... you are right they must be exhausted but other teams are already arriving from all over Italy...

in a situation like this there are only so many people that can fit around an area... i believe specialist teams with those heat seeking or whatever capable ... location devices for finding bodies under debris have been accepted... however logistics suggest that they will be arriving during the next 24 hour period... it takes time to organise transport and translators...etc etc...

i don't think any aid has been turned away... but this all happened just over twelve long hours ago and now with a new night upon us it all becomes more difficult.. just watched a huge storm rage across the mountains and it looks like there is rain over the other side now...

its a grim night for all the survivors and rescue workers... as temps now in that area will be dropping close to zero ...

No - responding to both Gala and myabruzzohome on the subject of 'foreign' experts coming in. For sure, there are agencies particularly equipped to detect living beings under building rubble - and they are extremely diplomatic in offering their services. But - if the roads are destroyed - how are their Italian hosts going to deploy them? One unfortunate thing about this earthquake is that l'Aquila, the provincial capital, was badly damaged: unfortunately this means that outlying (more badly damaged) villages don't get a look in.

Looking back on this (from like the perspective of next week) it is pretty clear that if some truly expert agencies had been delegated to helicopter in rescue teams to reach communities cut off by collapsed roads, maybe a couple of lives could have been saved. That is the calculation - yes, it is brutal, but in a civil disaster these sort of calculations have to be made every thirty seconds.

It is galling to the foreign expert agencies who are on standby at Stanstead or wherever - and they are good people - but it has to be the call of the protezione civile to decide whether to use them. Otherwise all would be chaos. It's easy to say 'they asked them too late'....but just think about the logistics. Goodwill is wonderful, but it isn't always practical to take instant advantage of it.

well the rain went and we all had a good nights sleep... yesterday was a sort of surreal day which you sort of went through on automatic drive... we had work to do... and i spent a lot of the day out... everywhere this was the big story...but funnily enough often some older people were hearing of the disaster for the first time... hadn't had the TV on and had slept through the big one...

the death toll didn't rise dramatically overnight... still around the 150 and but the homeless estimate is up around the 70,000... didn't feel any of the aftershocks.. even the big one around 1.15... i seriously cannot find that i have suffered at all in either loss of sleep or worry over this... my initial feelings still stand ... much worse on a ship at sea... i reserve my concerns i guess for those that were really in it.... i know not all of us can be quite so pragmatic... but in all honesty if anyone had told me to sleep in the car last night they would have got a strong suggestion about sanity thrown back at them when i have a house perfectly warm and standing to sleep in...

this morning and i know this is silly we both got messages over our mobiles from TIM giving us 10 euro credit... in this emergencey situation... don't know if this is Abruzzo specific or nationwide ... but it felt to me like a very practical and generous gift... we had trouble getting our phones credited on line yesterday... but for those in area worse off... far far worse off i am sure this first practical gesture must have shown that they are not all forgotten...

TV in that area must be non existent... but national politicians turning up ... and there have been many showing there support on the ground must also help... i know we all grumble about them... but press and politicos at least show people cut off that there is an interest in their fate... a concern for their suffering and its a shame that these people most probably will not see the solidarity offered from all over the world by so many until the worst is over...

peoples moral is something that needs bolstering at times like this ... because practical assistance does little until shock gives way to pain and grief...

anyway threads like this are a record of our concern ... and hopefully at least this one will be left free of dispute or back stabbing... scoring points or advertising... and really the last sentence requires no response just responsible postings and a bit of thought ...

good luck to everyone today ...

and most of all in a couple of weeks time... remember your offers of help and your concerns... because a lot will be needed and it will mean a lot then to those people that have been through the worst... look at Onna ... 37 dead ... a village of maybe 200... ... all gone... this little place will need support one day to come back to life

I heard on the news this morning that they have enough volunteers/helpers at the moment and were asking people to stay away. What he did say is these people would be most useful in the coming weeks as the people affected are going to need help for several months and he hoped they would still offer their help then.

The aftershick this morning at 1.14 was 4.8 so pretty hefty.

[I]"any of the aftershocks.. even the big one around 1.15... i seriously cannot find that i have suffered at all in either loss of sleep or worry over this... my initial feelings still stand ... much worse on a ship at sea... i reserve my concerns i guess for those that were really in it.... i know not all of us can be quite so pragmatic... but in all honesty if anyone had told me to sleep in the car last night they would have got a strong suggestion about sanity thrown back at them when i have a house perfectly warm and standing to sleep in..."[/I]
[I]Adriatica[/I]

I am sorry I can hear this no more, please stop making it out that it was a passing glitch I can see you are concerned on some posts but others are a quick advert for your area, I know looking on your site you like to make it clear that Teramo does not suffer the way other areas in Abruzzo do from earthquakes which I find very misleading, are you going to change this now ? I am offeneded by your comments and I can imagine others are too, we felt it for about 7 seconds or so but to think what that shake had done 180km away was enough to horrify me, yes we woke up to a beautiful day just like today but you cannot have the I'm alright Jack attitude, I am gutted about this for the whole area regardless of damage, I am so upset for the people there and the future of those people, regarding your perfectly warm house maybe you should take that back and think of those not so lucky, why mention it? Why would you talk like that?
I am sorry to express this but if this is the nature of this site then the stories I have heard are true, I just can't believe anyone can be so insensitive, please save it for your new sales pitch to new clients. I suggest taking that post back and save the Teramo is ok for the site, the fact is most of Italy is an earthquake zone they can happen anywhere and anytime we just have to live with it and hope it doesnt happen to us.

Vigneverde, I am sure that many of us, who have known and appreciated Adriatica's contributions to this Forum over a longer period of time, cannot understand your harsh comments. He is simply making us aware of how different the experience of an earthquake can be according to the area where you happen to be. And this is just the nature of earthquakes.
As for international solidarity, I heard that 35 countries have offered their help and their highly qualified and experienced rescue teams are on stand-by but they need an official request from the Italian government to come and help. Up to now, this has not happened; however, according to some newspapers, Berlusconi has already said that they need about 1200 more rescuers and the Italian Red Cross has started to report some shortages. Let's hope that help can arrive in time. The first 72 hours are vital to get as many people alive as possible from the ruins. After that, the chances are very slim.

We contacted our comune to see if there was anything we could do to help i.e. offer our home for use by the homeless and they have passed me the following which seems to give details of those coordinating aid etc.

A terribly sad situation for all involved and we must all think "there but for the grace of God...."

Jackie

EMERGENZA TERREMOTO Abruzzo Per offrire disponibilità di alloggio: l’UDU sta cercando posti letto telefonare allo 06.43411763 o scrivere a [email]organizzazione@udu.it[/email] Per volontari da tutta Italia: telefonare alla protezione civile nazionale 06.68201 Per volontari da Pescara: telefonare al Centro operativo della Protezione Civile presso la Prefettura di Pescara 085.2057627 Per donare il sangue in Abruzzo: rivolgersi presso gli ospedali, per Pescara: Dipartimento di Medicina Trasfusionale PO “Spirito Santo” via Fonte Romana 8 – tel. 085.4252687 Per donare il sangue dal tutta Italia: rivolgersi presso le strutture dell’Avis più vicine: [url=http://www.avis.it/usr_view.php/ID=1545]Avis Nazionale: le Sedi Avis dove è possibile donare[/url] Per fare donazioni: Raccolta fondi Croce Rossa Italiana: Conto corrente bancario C/C n. 218020 presso BNL - roma, intestato a CRI, codice Iban IT66 - C010 0503 3820 0000 0218020, causale: pro terremoto Abruzzo; Conto corrente postale n. 300004 intestato a CRI causale: pro terremoto Abruzzo;Versamenti on line sul sito: [url]www.cri.it/donazioni.html[/url] Per enti locali e associazioni di volontariato, comitati, gruppi organizzati: è possibile attivarsi da subito con i corpi locali di protezione civile, con la associazioni prendendo contatti con i coordinamenti regionali, c’è bisogno di medici, tende, coperte, cibo e supporto logistico. Per informarsi: Dipartimento della Protezione Civile 06.68201

I have put in the link to the British Red Cross on the other Earthquake post for those in UK wishing to donate.

We are trying to arrange any donations of non-perishable food to be taken to a central point and we are suggesting Amandola. I am going to ask Conad in Amandola in the morning if we can use them as a drop off point, so that you can bring your contributions and then we can take the food donations to the distribution centre in Macerata for 8pm on Thursday. We know you are all very kind, generous people, so if we can ask that you take your food to Conad in Amandola on Thursday for 6pm , hopefully we can collect as much food as possible.

If there are any problems with the Conad drop off point, I will post as soon as I find out tomorrow, but I am sure it will be fine. Thank you.

anger got the better of me before...

however

here we just took a hit... about ten minutes ago of the latest aftershock registered at 5.7.- 5.8

the house shook severely again... well in reality the earth moved below the house... now for some this is a terrifying experience... but here in the province of Teramo and cross fingers because these after shocks are due to last a fair time.. no building has collapsed...

now if i compare this to the area of the epicenter of the quake... can i justify any of my fears against real tragedy .. i really don't think so...

to me this is like a comparison of someone on an airline trip through severe turbulence... especially at the back of the aircraft... but in general you land you survive... and many people tell stories of the day they survived that terrible landing...

but for those say that survive or die in a real crash this story is meaningless...

its the same here ... every place i go here people are talking L'aquila and the tragedy for those people... none mention the fact that last night their house moved...or today at 11.00 or just now...its irrelevant... compared to real tragedy and drama.. and sadness and hopelessness...

an old lady pulled today from the wreckage of a house after 30 hours... i wont give her name but her age ...83 .. when asked how she managed held up her freshly made crochet and smiled as if what had happened was nothing...

she was more productive than i over the last few days...

essentially i have very little to comment on the snide or stupid comments made by members of this forum in general... less even when my neighbours are suffering or even scoring points and trying to sell property... i take lessons from no one in this ...

i started a thread on this after pilchard because i wanted a factual record to help people ... and i wanted it to be in the abruzzo section as i respect forum rules that make regional postings just that...

house abruzzo later started a thread which has very useful donation information ... but then there is now a banner on the forum in any case...

i also finally think that any comments on how people wish to use a donation made to them by their telephone company is unnecessary... many people here have had to reassure relatives and friends... give peace of mind to those not here that they are ok... many in fact do not have the resources to cope with the extra cost of all these calls.. the telephone companies have made a gesture.. most of us have helped them make their fortunes here in Italy... let whoever decide how they wish to spend it... and i really do not see that anyone here can take it upon themselves to control even that... we jsut dont need these point scoring posts at this time

[quote=PennyAW;115627]I have put in the link to the British Red Cross on the other Earthquake post for those in UK wishing to donate.[/quote]

We live in Umbria but received dozens of emails and phone calls over the past 2 days from worried friends back in the UK. I expect many Forum members can say the same. No one knew where L'Aquila was except a relative who makes Lutes. (He says Aquila strings are the best in the world). We have reassured them all and asked them to make donations as Penny has instructed above. This is the best we can do and encourage you all to get friends and family to donate. We've told them worrying won't help but your money will.

Adriatica, I do not know you and do not like to have a go at someone in this way, you can write long threads with your opinions that is fine and usually useful and with regards to who started a thread it really doesnt matter I was just pointing out how you offended me if not others with your comments I felt that they were a little dis tasteful and wether misunderstood or not surely you can read it and see where I am coming from.
Please do not harp on about point scoring, who cares!!!! Are we all back at school ?
We all feel the same way about what has happened this I am sure of, just take a little bit of critisism on the chin and realise that sometimes it is easy to offend others in times like this.
In response to you we felt the shake a little earlier but only for about 2 seconds it actually felt like a lorry passing, I now find it really strange that my 6 year old knows what to do in an earthquake ! Something I didnt think about when we moved here.

Adriatica! Fear is not a state that we choose. You may be the coolest cucumber on the block..good for you. Around my way there is discussion after EVERY shock, even by those who sleep or party through them.
The fact that the epicentre is 60Km away is of no significance when your bed is bouncing around a bedroom which is moving in a different way.
Please do not take this post as point scoring. I think that on reflection you will realise that there are many of us who are genuinely concerned about and interested in this disaster.
I found your previous factual posts helpful and informative however you now seem to have lost your way. Shame.

Its Ok John, I am amazed that the larger picture cannot be tooked at, who gives a (rude word not appropriate) about anything else, we all are sorry, and sad, but hopefully we can be positive and give real help to the victims, we are trying to do this in Marche, and thank you for your posts. The last shake here frightened me, I cannot imagine how it is for people closer to the epicenter.
A

some news for you in the marche ... ascoli piceno had an earthquake today which caused a lot of concern...mainly the concern was on the back of what has just happened here in abruzzo .. 4.8

but it might be why your houses are moving so much... there seems to be a bit of instability in other areas too.. maybe as a result of the big one

heres the italian only link... heard it on the radio today

[url=http://www.agi.it/ancona/notizie/200904071153-cro-rt11086-art.html]AGI News On - TERREMOTO: ASCOLI PICENO, IN STRADA DOPO SCOSSA ORE 1. 16[/url]

fear is subjective... i have a fear of serpents...illogical ... but not of earth movements.. but there you go

for those here in abruzzo again the protection civile is warning people that there are many bogus phone calls being made about new quakes and telling people to evacuate their homes... all around the L'aquila area ... playing on fears.. and then robbing the property... i know for us it might be easy to say they must be stupid to believe it.. but it works..

no telephone calls will be made suggesting anyone leaves their homes...it will always be an identifiable person from an emergencey service

our internet connection is off and on at the moment....so will post this quickly and let others maybe researh the ascoli tremors...

finally our house cannot be said to be all calm.. our son has slept through most of the problems ... but my wife is a person that went through the bad quake in camapania in which 2600 people lost their lives... she does not take this as calmly as i might... memories are there which cause deep anguish at times like this... friends lost.. so the reallity for her is somewhat more relevant than many...

her concern is for the children ... lets all hope now that the worrst is over... they have just set up a specailist hospital for the younger victims of this tragedy.. a sort of clowns hospital.. where efforts are made to relieve the pain and the fears

finally if it wasnt so stupid i would either cry or laugh... not sure which ... but google ads at the bottom of this thread... have a nice home for sale close to L'aquila at 145,000 ... 3 bed detached... maybe they will change their wording

Hey guys.....why not cut out all the personal crap............and thank ( whoever) that its not us...........if it is you ..........I for one am very very sorry, and my thoughts go out to you and yours................good luck, love and best wishes to all.

[quote=juliancoll;115665]Calmo Adriatica - no point losing your head at a time like this - emotions are running high - for various reasons, but your posts show the care and distress you feel and it's up to us to read between your lines.

Vigneverde is just showing his distress in a different way - that's all.

People are scared and distressed - confused and shocked - have lost loved ones - their homes - their security - jobs - the list is endless and we know recovery will take years - but with every little old lady rescued from the rubble holding her crochet hook, hope is restored and gives fresh strength to those tireless angels sifting through the fragile concrete with their bare hands.

I would also like to say how very proud I feel about the wonderful way in which many offers of help are being organised by parts of the forum family coming together.[/quote]

Who can argue with common sense like that...

Yes there was [U][I]another[/I][/U] huge aftershock just before the 8pm news tonight. 5.8 on the Richter. More buildings damaged in L'Aquila and Onì and that area. No more injured. But there was a great deal of fear. The news began minutes after the tremor happened and there was an atmosphere of almost terror from even the TV 'anchor' men and women - and who can blame them.

[IMG]http://www.ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/english/med/epa06xsuX_20090406.jpg[/IMG]

I have been watching on and off for most of the day and I feel so very helpless. This afternoon I confess that at one point I just broke down and sobbed at what I was watching. The first - a l[I]oooooo[/I]ng queue of people waiting to get something to eat for their lunch. Chatting quietly among themselves while they waited. No place to sit, young, families and the elderly. There were two white haired old ladies,arms linked just waiting when one just slowly collapsed to the floor - her friend tried desperately to hold her up but couldn't - others quickly caught her and rested her carefully in the mud. Another took his coat off and put it under her head, and yet another gave his coat so her friend could kneel on it next to her and comfort her......

But worse was to come - a report filmed earlier was shown where Protezione Civile (Civil Protection Officers) together with firemen were going around the cleared village and trying to check that no one was still in the houses or maybe trapped. Many houses '[I]look[/I]' OK from the outside but the entire inside may have collapsed. The report watched three searchers trying to break down a really old front door, but it wouldn't budge - they turned to an old gentleman standing there and said "It's all collapsed behind the door - we think the roof has come down". He turned to the TV crew and quietly said "But my daughter, her husband [I]and[/I] my grandchildren are all in there!" He just looked totally lost. His eyes were almost vacant...

May the Lord forgive me, but I just couldn't watch or listen any more.... my heart was breaking for these people. I cried for so long it hurt. If only I could help make their sadness go away - but I don't know how!

We are all only human after all.

there have been over 350 aftershocks since the main quake... plusd 50 of which have been over scale 3...

in real terms these should diminish over time... ie after a 3... the resulting ones should be less ... however this is not completely guaranteed because at some stage all these little movement can result in something bigger happening... and it is possible to even have an aftershock bigger than the main quake... and because of previous problems... ie weaker buildings this results in maybe lager amounts of damage... which is why these areas where the quake was worse are now closed off to people.. anyway thats how its supposed to go according to the experts here

fire crews and engineers today ... are inspecting buildings to see if some families can get back into their homes... many do not want to leave for temporarry accomodation and there is also a fear here about leaving property unprotected....

whilst many families decline the offer of free accomodation in the adriatic coastal resorts some people have just been arrested here for turning up at the hotels and claiming to be from the earthquake zone... wanting free beds and meals...

huge courage on one side as the people of L'Aquila refuse to give in to what nature throws at them... and normal life resuming amongst the turds of this world

I must say I am really impressed with the way the authorities are handling the situation, maybe on the ground there people will say different but this morning on BBC world they were praising the efforts. I was amazed when an interview with a family revealed that they even have 2 clowns going around the tent areas to keep the children entertained. People can say what they like about politics here but I cannot fault them at the moment in this situation.
To pull out a 20 year old alive yesterday evening has given them the needed boost to keep searching.

Fantastic work I am sure we are all proud of you.

on the other earthquake thread there are concerns regarding animals... numbers at the moment suggest that around 5000 are living on the streets... and as many suggetsed there these animals may well be very distressed and or injured...

anyway here is a link to an aid association here that is trying to help

[url=http://www.aidaa.net/]AIDAA - Associazione Italiana per la Difesa di Animali e Ambiente[/url]

with phone numbers... i am sure they will appreciate any offers that are made...

with four dogs in our house ... its one of the things that has been noticeable before each big shock how their behaviour changes... the night of the start...one of them started barking around an hour before... well dogs do bark i know...especially in Italy...but ours generally not at night... they sleep in the house and rarely accompany the other local dogs in their night choruses

as owners of animals its also quite relevant how you behave in these situations... animals sense quickly when people are afraid or worse panicking... i know for some its difficult.. however this also applies with children... so its not that someone has to be super cool or made of ice but we make choices.. we chose a place to live and we chose to have children and dogs... if we run around like headless chickens worrying over the last few days about our situation or what might happen ... for the animals it will be bad enough.. they are already pretty freaked by some of the human maltreatment they had before they came to live with us... and for children... well we all have to decide how we protect them and their life... i don't want our child to be scared every time he hears a bang...

also although our interent seems more reliable so far today heres a search link on google if anyone wants to try and investigate further with other organisations it might give you a start

[url]http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7GGLL_it&ei=P1XcSb_INdjhsAb17YifDA&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=l%C2%B4associazione+italiana+difesa+animali+e+ambiente&spell=1[/url]

Thanks, John, I am copying the link for the Pet's Corner Group. I see that they are using the Sulmona Centre.

Here is an ENPA initiative which might be the easiest way to lend a hand to the animals affected by the earthquake.

Per aiuti economici:
Conto corrente postale n. 95664553
Iban IT 58 D 07601 01400 000095664553
intestato a: Enpa – Ente Nazionale Protezione Animali
Causale: Emergenza animali terremoto Abruzzo

[url=http://www.enpa.it/it/]Ente Nazionale Protezione Animali[/url]