10319 RICS & Renewable Energy

The Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (RICS) have published a guide to energy saving / renewable energy in the UK. Here is the Independents take on the guide.

[url=http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/solar-panels-take-100-years-to-pay-back-installation-costs-917202.html]Solar panels 'take 100 years to pay back installation costs' - Climate Change, Environment - The Independent[/url]

There is no allowance for inflation which seems daft and the numbers were crunched before the recent utility price rises, but the true cost / benefit of say solar panels seems little clearer.

Ours is a holiday home for the time being and we have put the necessary pipework in and conduit for photovoltaic cables as part of the refurb, much to the interest of our geometra. But will it save us money, I think so but am not sure. Time and utility cost inflation will tell.

:eerr::eerr:

Charlie

Category
Building/Renovation

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 09/03/2008 - 04:43

Photovoltaic (FV) panels are not such a crazy idea as they may seem, bearing in mind that Italy (especially the south) has a lot of sunshine freely available all year round. After several false starts, a scheme was launched here in Italy a couple of years ago whereby ENEL, the electricity company, could contract with you to buy your FV generated electricity at a decent price - selling back to you the electricity you actually use at the normal, much reduced price.

To enter the scheme, you will need to [URL="http://www.enel.it/enelsi/offerta/casa_risp_energetico/imp_fotovoltaici/Index.aspx"]approach ENEL[/URL] directly and start the ball rolling for a "grid connect" contract. There is a lot of paperwork involved, I forewarn you!

There is a lot of misinformation floating around - not least from some of the suppliers and installation electricians themselves, so another forewarn here - get lots of quotes before committing yourself. A 3Kw installation should cost you around €16,000 for the hardware and another couple of thousand for the installation. Speriamo! However, there are many variations and I have heard that there are people out there charging upward of €50,000 for the same installation!

The ENEL side works quite simply, really. You have an existing electrical connection already, I presume, so that continues as before - together with your electric bills. The FV panels contribute by way of a contracted amount that ENEL pay to you of €0.49 KwH (unit) - if it is a permanent installation - less if it is a temporary or semi-temporary installation. They will buy ALL of the electricity you generate, offsetting it against your bill - I don't know how they go about paying you if your bill is less than your supply to them, though.

The €0.49 is set on a sliding scale downward over the contract period - 10 years - reducing 2% per annum, although the amount they pay will increase due to an inflation linking mechanism - the prices went up this year, in fact.

Firstly contact ENEL - that gets it all going. Then do lots of research so that you can spot the frauds and cheats that will appear on your horizon as the project gathers speed.

Good luck.

[URL="http://www.enel.it/enelsi/offerta/doc/FV_guida_impianti_2008.pdf"]PDF ENEL document here[/URL].

ETA: I should have added that there is also a low/zero interest rate loan scheme offered by certain specified financial institutions to help with the initial capital costs. You will find more details on the Enel pdf file above. I'm sorry it is in Italian - but we ARE in Italy, after all! ;)

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 09/03/2008 - 07:06

We were quoted E 34000 for a 15Kw 3 phase Photovoltaic supply. Needless to say it was a no go area, despite all the assurances about payback .

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 09/03/2008 - 08:40

[quote=Geotherm;95944]We were quoted E 34000 for a 15Kw 3 phase Photovoltaic supply. Needless to say it was a no go area, despite all the assurances about payback .[/quote]As I said, Geotherm, there are a great many quacks and charlatans around in the industry at the moment. An industrial power generating scheme is not one that would be in the mind of most people though, would you not think? I mean, most homes here only have a 3Kw meter in any case, so 3Kw would seem a practical solution, rather than an industrial, 410volt 3 phase scheme. The sums are quite easy to calculate, in reality - €0.49 per KwH x 3 = the hourly FV output - multiply by the hours of sunlight you can reasonably expect at your location and then think about the cloudy days and calculate at 30% of the FV panel output - for the sake of conservatism.

Having said all that, €34,000 for 15Kw seems pretty reasonable to me. Did you actually calculate your potential return at €7.35 per hour?

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 09/03/2008 - 09:28

Actually Nardini, there was quite a lot of thought and reasoning that went into the 15kw supply. The first point is at the time, all the heat pumps were 3 phase, albeit that this has now changed. The pump here is independant of the house supply and if there was a compressor fault then it can be switched to electrical at either3/6/ 9Kw input. Secondly we wished to be able to run the house in a similar fashion to that in the UK and not have to worry about appliances tripping out the supply through overload.
Thirdly, we had no intention of having loads of solar panels+ accumulators taking up space because they are so unsightly.
No, I did not calculate my potential return and just as an indication we use approx 11000 Kw per year, for everything without gas.
Think I would rather pay my E1.19 per kw per month and 0.18 cents per kwh.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 09/03/2008 - 09:32

Good grief, Geotherm! Do you actually manufacture your heat pumps there? I'm sure that you can see how, in a domestic situation, FV can make a lot of sense - for some people (rather as heat pumps can make a lot of sense - for some people).

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 09/03/2008 - 09:45

Agree Nardini. For low usage then they can make a lot of sense, everyone to their own views. No I do not make them here!!!
Best combination then, gshp up to 11kw output, single phase drawing 2Kwh combined with 6Kw PV setup = constant heating and DHW, with approx 4 Kw left for the house.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 09/03/2008 - 14:04

Bit of confusion in the above between kilowatts and kilowatt-hours. I think a 15Kw system should be capable of delivering 15Kw of power continuously. A 15KwH system would be able to deliver (say) 3Kw for 5 hours.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 09/03/2008 - 14:42

[quote=Steve Graham;95974]Bit of confusion in the above between kilowatts and kilowatt-hours. I think a 15Kw system should be capable of delivering 15Kw of power continuously. A 15KwH system would be able to deliver (say) 3Kw for 5 hours.[/quote]
sorry SG, supply here is 15Kw with a max of 16.5 Kw constantly ( little difference with 3Phase as each is 5Kw per phase, therefore totalling the 15kw figure). 15Kwh is what the total appliance loading can draw in 1 hour. Just take an electric cooker for example rated at 3Kw then that is the energy it will use per hour so 3kwh.