3683 Site Fencing

:eek: We are in the process of buying a house just outside Pergola in Le Marche. The house is in very good order as are the outbuildings. We do need to install drains, electrics and water to the outbuildings and also add a septic tank and pool. We have been quoted 12,000 Euros by the Geometra for "turning the property into a building site" by putting up temporary fencing, signs and everything else which you would normally find around a UK building site. This is something which we've not seen on any other development. Has anyone any experience of this? Is the price quoted sound about right? The area around the outbuildings is about half an acre. Thanks.

Category
Building/Renovation

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 05/17/2006 - 14:42

As far as needing to delineate the site while building works are going on, and providing the relevant signs, yes, this is necessary. (You are doing a pool, and somebody might fall into the excavation, so you will be legally obliged to guard against this possibility, which really implies temporary fencing.)

The cost seems excessive at first sight, and I suggest you ask for clarification. Quite probably it not only covers the costs of the temporary fencing, but also the geometra's fee for taking on the health and safety responsibilities - "piano di sicurezza" - which will be calculated on a percentage of the construction costs. Your geometra should be able to give you a detailed breakdown, in writing, of this E12,000 charge, and if I were you I would ask for this account in detail. I'm inclined to suggest it might even include the costs of excavation and earthmoving!

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 05/18/2006 - 15:05

Thanks Relaxed and Will for your advice. The price does not include the excavation but you're right, we need to go back to the Geometra and get a full break-down of the cost. E12 grand does seem a lot for some stakes and tape!!!!

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 05/19/2006 - 12:17

Why on earth do you need fencing and signs to turn it into a building site? Is your property in the middle of a town where people might need to be warned that there is a hole in the pavement or something? Is it a country property?
Is this fencing/signs/12000 euros business normal in Italy?

Sorry about all the apparently silly questions and I might have the wrong end of the stick here but I think you might be getting ripped off.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 05/19/2006 - 13:50

[QUOTE=Flyingveepixie]Why on earth do you need fencing and signs to turn it into a building site? [/QUOTE]

Because you building activity might cause damages to third parties.
So it is better (and often mandatory) to warn people there are men at work.
To prevent is better than to heal (and to pay damages).

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sat, 05/20/2006 - 08:40

[QUOTE=Flyingveepixie]Why on earth do you need fencing and signs to turn it into a building site? Is your property in the middle of a town where people might need to be warned that there is a hole in the pavement or something? Is it a country property?
Is this fencing/signs/12000 euros business normal in Italy?

Sorry about all the apparently silly questions and I might have the wrong end of the stick here but I think you might be getting ripped off.[/QUOTE]

All building sites have to be demarked whether or nor in a town or middle of country.The board has to indicate the owner's name/s, the name of the geometra and or architect,the name of the building company,the number of the building concession granted by the municipality or the date of start of DIA activity,the person resonsable for the piano di sicurezza and site manager etc.This is normal all over the country and permits inspective agencies to see imediately if it is an "irregular" building site ie. without permission,no named building company etc.All this goes beyond just health and safety laws now in place all over the union,but touches on work laws for example builders working in the black without paying their taxes/ssn contributions/vat etc.I can't say anything about the sum of money quoted not enough info there.In any case there are some quite severe penalties for the above so be careful.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sat, 05/20/2006 - 15:05

Thanks for all your helpful advice - very much appreciated!!!! We have now asked our Geometra for a cost-breakdown. We think that maybe he's just based in on a percentage of the rennovation costs..... We'll let you know the outcome

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sun, 05/21/2006 - 05:32

[QUOTE=Sebastiano]All building sites have to be demarked whether or nor in a town or middle of country.The board has to indicate the owner's name/s, the name of the geometra and or architect,the name of the building company,the number of the building concession granted by the municipality or the date of start of DIA activity,the person resonsable for the piano di sicurezza and site manager etc.This is normal all over the country and permits inspective agencies to see imediately if it is an "irregular" building site ie. without permission,no named building company etc.All this goes beyond just health and safety laws now in place all over the union,but touches on work laws for example builders working in the black without paying their taxes/ssn contributions/vat etc.I can't say anything about the sum of money quoted not enough info there.In any case there are some quite severe penalties for the above so be careful.[/QUOTE]

I stand corrected, but it still seems rather unnecessary to me. There is a Trullo being rebuilt across the lane from my house in Puglia with none of the above mentioned fences or signs. The site was all properly surveyed by the (seemingly) appropriate people last year and now the builders are there every day working on it.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sun, 05/21/2006 - 12:02

[QUOTE=Flyingveepixie]I stand corrected, but it still seems rather unnecessary to me. There is a Trullo being rebuilt across the lane from my house in Puglia with none of the above mentioned fences or signs. The site was all properly surveyed by the (seemingly) appropriate people last year and now the builders are there every day working on it.[/QUOTE]

nothing happens till it happens...even our comune in the person of the ex mayor(considered responable) is into a penal court case because the building contractor had an irregular worker who was severely injured on the very small and modest site involved.The lack of the board with all the above does not exonerate it in any way.As far as i'm aware building sites in the uk have similar regulations more or less enforced.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sun, 05/21/2006 - 13:50

Sebastiano said "nothing happens till it happens"

A really important statement, but as Sebastiano explains, when it happens - it is bad.

As to the trullo being worked on: in all cases it should display the board showing all of the parties involved with the works, and then it is up to the person appointed to carry out the site safety obligations to decide whether to fence etc. etc. It seems clear in Felicity's case that there are major works being carried out, with deep excavations, so it will have been decided to fence. If it is just a matter of new windows, external pointing, etc. on a two storey building, with no crane or other potentially dangerous pieces of equipment in use, then usually the board and a bit of warning tape is sufficient.

It is much the same in the UK. Have you noticed how nowadays the scaffolding clips are often covered up with bits of non sharp plastic?!