12307 Cost of Living Survey if anyone is interested

[quote=Geotherm;119168]There has been so much about the cost of living going on, plus the thread in furniture, that I wondered if anyone would be interested in completing a survey on their actual expenditure for 2008. No names or forum ids' would be published,as this is solely to get an idea of what full time residents in Italy actualy pay, the results, if enough answers are supplied will give a good idea of what to expect for people interested in moving over here permanently.
Anyone who is in the UK, who wants to participate to give a comparison, then please give details as well, but state you are UK based.
All details to me by PM if you are willing to be included. I will then compile all the information and publish it on the forum.

1) Type of installation and cost inclusive of IVA. To include circulating pumps, hot water accumulators, solar panels etc.(Ignore costs of radiators/ underfloor heating, as these are required in any instance)
2)Size of house, location, altitude
3) Lived in area ...... mainly related to winter use.
4) Heating type ........ underfloor, radiator or other.
5) Average low season temperature maintained in the house.
6) Insulation levels .. double glazing, roof insulation, wall insulation etc.
7) 2008 costs.... Electricity.. wood.. oil... gas (please state gpl or metano )[/quote]

But Geotherm this survey will not give a cost of living, more a cost of [B]heating.[/B]
As far as I am concerned food, transport, water, telephone, insurances etc are all part of a cost of living.

Sorry Nielo.
I based it on the furniture thread. Ok we can include all the other aspects if required, but the main costs here that are always mentioned are heating, especially for full time residents.

I agree with Nielo, we could call it "cost of utility service", which is important as we get many enquiries through the forum regarding these. But I would like to see some kind of survey done regarding cost of living. I am under the impression that many people considering a move to Italy are still under the impression that the cost of living in Italy is significantly lower than in the UK or USA. And I think that they may be surprised when they see the results of such a survey.

The survey was based on the highest cost factor in living here, over a winter period, that is why it was based on heating. I did not include the other factors, as they are determined by more personal choice. You can search around for insurance companies, either in the uk or italy, water your garden as much as you want, eat what you like, fish, fillet steak, vegetarian etc.Telephone, again is another which has been discussed many times and the information is on the forum about all various options available.
Perhaps in this case we should combine multiple surveys between a number of us and then publish them all ........ Any more takers???

Hi Geotherm,

As someone living in the UK but planning to move to Italy in the next few years I would be very interested in the results of a survey on heating costs.

The house we are moving to has an oil fired system (:eerr:) and I have no idea how much this is going to cost, but I suspect it's a good deal more expensive than gas.

Thanks

Jinty

I make the same sorts of personal choices with my heating too. I can use wood, olive stones, gas or electric and the cost will vary with the weather and how hot I want the house.

Sorry I don’t mean to pick your survey apart and I hope you get a lot of good replies but for me heating is only one small part of the cost of living here.

Hi Nielo.
Thanks for that. I asked for details of approximate 2008 heating costs, by whatever method, just to get some comparisons with what people use. If your heating costs are just a small part of your overall expenditure, then I am sure others would be pleased to see the options that are available to them if they move here on a permanent basis.

[quote=Gala Placidia;119171]I agree with Nielo, we could call it "cost of utility service", which is important as we get many enquiries through the forum regarding these. But I would like to see some kind of survey done regarding cost of living. I am under the impression that many people considering a move to Italy are still under the impression that the cost of living in Italy is significantly lower than in the UK or USA. And I think that they may be surprised when they see the results of such a survey.[/quote]

I think that it may well shatter a few "newbie" dreams.

Explaining to friends who ask to stay in our Barn out of season, why we need a contribution towards running costs, has offended them and embarresed us in the past. I doubt anyone in the UK really appreciates how "well off they are" if they are retired and living there. Savings may be paying low interest but cars to coats are all much cheaper there.

Although I wouldn't swap places, such surveys may damage your health. :wideeyed:

"moved to italiauncovered.co.uk"

Hi Torch.
Actual location is not needed, just a nearby town or city to get average temps. altitude is a factor, but so is proximity to mountains and coast etc ........ just trying to work out the temperature ranges for the different areas as a comparison to heating costs.

"moved to italiauncovered.co.uk"

[quote=Geotherm;119188]Hi Torch.
Actual location is not needed, just a nearby town or city to get average temps. altitude is a factor, but so is proximity to mountains and coast etc ........ just trying to work out the temperature ranges for the different areas as a comparison to heating costs.[/quote]

I would be very interested in the results of your survey as well Keith as it will help us in figuring out a budget for our eventual move. We are currently considering the area around Monte Rinaldo, in southern Marche, which has an altitude of 450 metres.

I walk around our house all winter and spring in a down vest in Vermont and keep our heat at 60 fahrenheit during the day when I'm the only one home. My husband is always cold though, at this temperature. I've told him he'd better get used to it as heat will surely cost more in Italia!

[quote=Lisa C.;119195]My husband is always cold though, at this temperature. I've told him he'd better get used to it as heat will surely cost more in Italia![/quote]

That's for sure! Personally I don't know my costs as I live in a block of flats and my communal expenses: heating, communal lighting, cleaning and maintenance and water come to €120 a month.Gas for cooking about €10/12 a month and don't ask about electric as water heating is by electric and I've just had a catch-up bill! Fortunately showers after football training are free! When I update my spreadsheet i'll let you know, but it's not too bad. I don't run a TV, dishwasher, tumble dryer or high energy lightbulbs. If I had my own place I'd install solar thermal so water heating is the real killer. in the summer I use camping showers on the balcony for washing up and sometimes the kettle on the gas in the winter.

Oh, and I'm at 650m by the way, which around here is low, as from my back and front windows I can see peaks of over 3000m. I even went skiing yesterday!

I'm centro storico and only 350m up but this morning I was sorely tempted to put the heating on. Then I realised, "1st May, can't do that" so I didn't but I did put an extra wooly on (making it 2 jumpers). Turned out lovely in the afternoon, went for a long walk and it was tee shirt weather once we got going. But again now it's chilly and I'll be watching TV with a blanket over my knees again tonight.
We had our electricity meter finally read back in February. You wouldn't believe how much the "catch up" bill is....

I think that's what Geo was hoping you would have told him Violetta - but don't think the blanket over a knobbly knee cost can be factored in somehow. It would depend on the type on blanket used - polyester/nylon mix for the down and outs and perhapsa nice mohair and/or cashmere blend for those with Gin & Tonic terraces.

I think the knobbliness of each persons knee would also have to be factored in to the cost equation. The knobblier the knee, the less contact the blanket would have and the greater the air circulation would be under it, so reducing any benefit.

It's an absolute minefield darling - lets do lunch instead - and leave the boys to worry about this type of thing. :laughs:

[quote=sueflauto;119216]That's for sure! Personally I don't know my costs as I live in a block of flats and my communal expenses: heating, communal lighting, cleaning and maintenance and water come to €120 a month.Gas for cooking about €10/12 a month and don't ask about electric as water heating is by electric and I've just had a catch-up bill! Fortunately showers after football training are free! When I update my spreadsheet i'll let you know, but it's not too bad. I don't run a TV, dishwasher, tumble dryer or high energy lightbulbs. If I had my own place I'd install solar thermal so water heating is the real killer. in the summer I use camping showers on the balcony for washing up and sometimes the kettle on the gas in the winter.

Oh, and I'm at 650m by the way, which around here is low, as from my back and front windows I can see peaks of over 3000m. I even went skiing yesterday![/quote]

Sueflauto......................
I can't wait to see your spreadsheet results................ we may get a collection going!!.............
Are your costs Exclusive of showers, TV etc etc?

I think my costs are seeming a little better ?!!

How on earth does the 'normal' (me scuse!) Italian person cope ????

1) Type of installation and cost inclusive of IVA. [B]Stufa/solar/lpg gas with 300 litre heat store and solar pre-heat tank. cost €9,000[/B]
2)Size of house, location, altitude 300 mq, Preggio, [B]500m[/B]
3) Lived in area ...... mainly related to winter use. [B]220mq[/B]
4) Heating type ........ underfloor, radiator . [B]underfloor downstairs, rads up[/B].
5) Average low season temperature maintained in the house. 20c
6) Insulation levels .. double glazing, roof insulation, [B]both these[/B]
7) 2008 costs.... Electricity.. wood.. oil... gas (please state gpl or metano ]
[B]80 quintale of wood + own all worth €1200, lpg €1,000, leccy €1,200.... have just gone zero gas and solar panels now running so will be much less next year.[/B]

I might add that technology has moved on in the 2 years this has been running. Similar installations going in now will be close to zero gas all year but still burning €1,000 of wood. Geotherm you will be pleased to know that the latest bigger heat store tanks not only have special large ports for gravity circulation stufas but have the ports ready for heat pumps. Perfect marriage?

Thanks to the few who have replied so far ...... I hope more will come through, as it is rather difficult to complete something on 4 answers !!!
Anyway ........ can someone even if they are not taking part supply the following info if possible.
2008 figures only from Jan to Dec., to cover energy price increases.
GPL cost per ltr approx
Metano cost
Oil per ltr
Wood seems to be fairly constant and I have electricity figures.

Many thanks

1) Type of installation and cost inclusive of IVA. To include circulating pumps, hot water accumulators, solar panels etc.(Ignore costs of radiators/ underfloor heating, as these are required in any instance) 2 wood burning stoves. Stove 1, a traditional range used for heating hot water and cooking = €300. Fitted by Pilch. Installation costs = € 80 in materials
2)Size of house, location, altitude 100Sq.m habitation space, Abruzzo. Alt. 360m
3) Lived in area ...... mainly related to winter use. 6O Sq.m
4) Heating type ........ underfloor, radiator or other. Just stoves
5) Average low season temperature maintained in the house. 20 degs
6) Insulation levels .. double glazing, roof insulation, wall insulation etc. Double glazing only
7) 2008 costs.... Electricity.. wood.. oil... gas (please state gpl or metano ) Electricity €500. Light, power, heating water for showers) Logs €375 Total costs per year= €875

Sprat

[FONT=Century Gothic]The results will certainly be interesting.[/FONT]

[FONT=Century Gothic]We don’t live in the UK and are not permanent residents in Italy, but we do find that most things are more expensive in Italy which surprised us. We wanted a gas connection in our apartment and as we are the only one out of 5 apartments, (the rest use gas cylinders); we had to pay a connection fee of nearly 600 euro for that privilege. It took the gas company less than half an hour to connect us :wideeyed:[/FONT]

[quote]
Anyway ........ can someone even if they are not taking part supply the following info if possible.
2008 figures only from Jan to Dec., to cover energy price increases.
GPL cost per ltr approx
Metano cost
Oil per ltr
Wood seems to be fairly constant and I have electricity figures.
[/quote]

Geotherm

At the end of October 2008 I paid €1153 for 200 litres of GPL.

The height issue is interesting. At 500m here I was surprised to find that in winter it was often 5c colder down in the tiber valley because the cold air was pooling down there. The resulting morning fogs that make that those lovely lakes of cream below are particularly cold. One morning the lake of cream rose up and visibly poured through a window into the bedroom. It was suddenly icy, so it seems any house that bathes in this pool will be much colder. Summer is perversely different. Cooler breezes at 500m with stifling heat and visible smog in the valley below.

"At the end of October 2008 I paid €1153 for 200 litres of GPL".

Presume you missed off a "0" :veryconfused:

er .. hang on lets have another look at the bill... ah there's a 1 missing so it should be 1,200 litres.

[quote=Sprostoni;119358]Sueflauto......................
I can't wait to see your spreadsheet results................ we may get a collection going!!.............
Are your costs Exclusive of showers, TV etc etc?

I think my costs are seeming a little better ?!!

How on earth does the 'normal' (me scuse!) Italian person cope ????[/quote]

As to your last question, I don't know! I forgot to add snow clearance as to what is included in the block expenses. They were busy this year but great entertainment watching the little bobcat spinning around the carpark...!

On the heating front the problem is that the block is full of old people who want the heating up higher...

Sitting in Glasgow on a cold dark dreary rainy Bank Holiday this morning (with the heating on) - it occured to me that we should compare annual bills for heating in the UK/USA versus Italy - given our heating is on for about 46 weeks of the year here........

Just a thought?

Hi Jinty.

Did ask for that when I set the thread up.

"Anyone who is in the UK, who wants to participate to give a comparison, then please give details as well, but state you are UK based."

[quote=Geotherm;119771]Hi Jinty.

Did ask for that when I set the thread up.

"Anyone who is in the UK, who wants to participate to give a comparison, then please give details as well, but state you are UK based."[/quote]

We have to heat our 2600 square foot house, which is all on one floor, with the exception of an attic and basement about 9 months out of the year. We have a small pellet stove in our family room which consumes about 2 tons per winter as I keep it on low. We use this as there is no heat source in this room. The current cost per ton is about $315.00 including delivery thus totalling $630.00 for the winter. In addition we pre-buy our oil for a supply of 8 months. Last year oil prices were very high when we locked in and we paid $4.59 per gallon, or $6286.00 for the 8 months. We then have an additional month to pay for at whatever the prevailing rate is for oil. This year oil prices are down and we just got a quote for a pre-buy for $2.099 per gallon so that portion of the bill will be about $2940.00 USD. We live in Vermont, USA.

Geotherm,
Good timing as I just had to perform this exercise although the information is a little different from your request I hope you might find it useful:-

Year 2008 based on 12 months occupancy - 220sq/m rented apartment Treviso Veneto

NOTE: costs Not including rent / car payments / grocery shopping / entertainment

Telecom 1,072.50 (with internet)
Water 89.96
Gas 2,522.96 (heating radiators)
Elect 2,114.14 (with A/C)
Tax 211.29 (TV / refuge tax)
Bank 200.00 (charges)
Fuel 2,771.78 (cars)
Parking 350.84 (town center)
Miscellaneous 885.30 (car service, heating check)
Road tolls 674.26
Medical 395.71
Apartment fees 600.00
Insurance 4,286.51 (1 motor bike plus 2 cars)
TOTAL 16,175.25
[COLOR=blue]Av per month 1,347.95[/COLOR]

SCARY.....

Cheers
JW