2360 puglia news story

puglia and one of its national parks was in the news this week...in fact after the normal bank corruption...political scandals it was the first news item for a couple of days.... ..sorry puglia nothing beats the political/banking scandals... in fact it was also front page news in the papers too... its the biggest recorded event of its type in italian history involving something like 3000 hectares of one of the most protected areas in puglia.... Parco nazionale dell'Alta Murgia...

Category

General chat about Italy

yeah, thats what I thought. And?

Urmmmmmm...........:eek: :eek: :eek:

[url]http://www.repubblica.it/2006/a/sezioni/cronaca/frodiambientali/frodiambientali/frodiambientali.html[/url]

[QUOTE=adriatica]puglia and one of its national parks was in the news this week...in fact after the normal bank corruption...political scandals it was the first news item for a couple of days.... ..sorry puglia nothing beats the political/banking scandals... in fact it was also front page news in the papers too... its the biggest recorded event of its type in italian history involving something like 3000 hectares of one of the most protected areas in puglia.... Parco nazionale dell'Alta Murgia...[/QUOTE]

Don`t keep us in suspense! What was it about?

Trulli disturbing stuff John. :(

Perhaps you should switch search engine to Google from your current NegativeNewsInPugliaSearch. :D

Dave

ynot....

its just i happen to live here watch italian news..cause after all this is italy.... have not bothered trying to get the bbc.... and for my sins actually go to the bar and read italian newspapers... and as has been pointed out to me on occaision there are many members of the forum who are interested in puglia... plan to make their lives and homes there and like any local in a community must be interested in their region

actually on the same day it was found that local apulian commerce was also trying to mill cheap grain ... well condemmed ... and that this grain is contaminated by a substance called ocratossina... which even if fed to animals can go through that system and still reach the human body... well the rest is in this link....

[url]http://www.rainews24.it/Notizia.asp?NewsID=59115[/url]

also i dont use google as a search engine ... and as most people here have realise ...my typing/spelling is abysmal so the other engine you mentioned is jsut too long a word for me to either spell or enter without lots and lots of dots..... so most probably wouldnt work...but its interesting to note from your post that such a an engine exists....

Have to agree with John - difficult for anyone living in Italy to miss this (or the poison grain scandal).

Worth noting that Il Sole 24ore did a study of quality of life in italian towns and cities (looking at things like health care provision, education quality, pollution etc) and as usual the south did very badly (bari and Brindisi were both near the bottom.

This is the reality for the Italians - as expats with UK pensions etc you may be able to live a good life, insulated from this but I would advise anyone looking to work or bring up children in the S (or rural Italy in general) to do some very good research.

[quote=Aliena]OK OK I'll do it.. sigh.. and it'll take a while but it's worth doing for all you lot who live in Italian Igloos and the like down there in Puglia.

Gimme half an hour to translate it.. again.. as before.. wont be perfect but will do best I can.

:) :)

Erm.. Ive just looked at it.. better make it an hour! :)[/quote]

See you do have your uses. ;) Thank you.

All I can say about all these terrible things that happen in the south hopefully can only get better. There are issues with bringing up children in England too. It is a choice.

[QUOTE=trullomartinafranca]See you do have your uses. ;) Thank you.

All I can say about all these terrible things that happen in the south hopefully can only get better. There are issues with bringing up children in England too. It is a choice.[/QUOTE]

"get better!" wanna bet?:D

[QUOTE=giovanni]"get better!" wanna bet?:D[/QUOTE]

What a little ray of sunshine you are Giovanni :rolleyes:

Isn't it a positive result that the 'scam' has been exposed. Isn't it positive that maybe this exposure may make someone else think twice before trying a similar thing?

Oh, I give up :(

But isn't it true we have to get rid of the trees to prevent environmental impact due to water losses and reduce the huge amount of methane production?

Dave:D

p.s. John only jealous I can't read Italian or chat in a bar:o

Nice balance in your second article ;)

Sue, As long as we remain positive and help when we can things will get better or we would still be living in caves!

Oh, forgot I will be! :D

Just ignore Geo......so optimistic about everything

[QUOTE=Susan P]What a little ray of sunshine you are Giovanni :rolleyes:

Isn't it a positive result that the 'scam' has been exposed. Isn't it positive that maybe this exposure may make someone else think twice before trying a similar thing?

Oh, I give up :([/QUOTE]

susan p,you think this refers solely to your beloved puglia?... no its a southern thing, and you must face reliality if its not one scam, it will be
another...the only thing you can hope for, is they get caught out earlier,
and the scams themself get smaller,or do less damage. that all

if you don't agree fine... then send us back our water....... campania....

[QUOTE=trullomartinafranca]Sue, As long as we remain positive and help when we can things will get better or we would still be living in caves! Oh, forgot I will be! :D

Just ignore.......not worth the effort![/QUOTE]

Ugh, Ugh !

whatsa matter puglians no wanna play.........sorry you no puglians,you only
live or wanna live there,you wanna bery youra hed in da sand......plenty of
sandda so go bery.......

i have been told to lighten up/grow up........well from you responses to johns
post,.... ditto applies,i don't know some people are sooooooo touchy..
hey i have herd that somewhere before!......

[QUOTE=Aliena]Giovanni.. caro..

You're confused.. the Bitching thread is this way.. Follow Aliena. ;)

:) :)[/QUOTE]

caro mia... you are wrong, everytime puglia is mentioned, the bitching starts:D

[FONT="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="3"]John thanks for posting this, Aliena thanks for taking time to do the translation.

I hate the fact that my Italian is too bad for me to read the Italian papers or watch the news when I'm in Italy.Actually I do watch the news but only catch one word in 10 so not much use.I believe I coaught an interesting item on banning Motos in Napoli last time I watched but who knows.

I know there is a certain sensitivity among the 'puglia posse' regarding any of John's posts on Puglia but really!!! Those of you who are sticking your heads in the sand should be condemed to read and re-read 'Under a Tuscan Sun' (see my post in too many books for Christmas thread) as you seem to be inhabiting a version of Italy familiar only to the book's author!

To balance things up these scandals do happen in Abruzzo..this summer I met a recent graduate who'd been volunteering to work in the Nation Park of Maiella and he told me that the funding for park warden's was being withdrawn due to some local government scam.read the 'Dark Heart of Italy'
instead of the previously mentioned book and enlighten yourselves.I find it remarkable that people are prepared to move to another country without having a clue about its politics.

Please..please more posts on Italian politics/scanadals.

Becky[/SIZE][/FONT]

[QUOTE=Aliena]Manopello.. fa niente.. you're welcome! Keep trying to learn Italian.. it's the real language of lurve.. forget vegetables! ;)

Giovanni.. like I said.. your confused.. its "cara mia" if typing to Aliena! Now.. follow me.. we have bitching to do.

:) :)[/QUOTE]

but i wanna play ear......:) not time to go home ...yet...oh..

I'm not sure where people keep getting this idea that us 'Puglians' stick our heads in the sand! I value Johns posts and always have, have just asked him to be less bias (point out that issues effect other parts of Italy too) and not to be quite so depressing in posts, whether it be about Puglia or not. Have noticed a far more balanced review of news lately.

We acknowledge what has been said in the news but not sure what you are expecting us to do about it. As has been pointed out it takes ages for things to change for the better, those of us moving/buying there are not going to change things overnight if at all. John points out problems that we may or may not know about and then its down to weighing up pros and cons of wanting to go there or not.

[QUOTE=giovanni]susan p,you think this refers solely to your beloved puglia?... no its a southern thing, and you must face reliality if its not one scam, it will be
another...the only thing you can hope for, is they get caught out earlier,
and the scams themself get smaller,or do less damage. that all

if you don't agree fine... then send us back our water....... campania....[/QUOTE]

Giovanni

I have lived in many countries including Italy (Milan, Campania, Piemonte). I intend retiring to Puglia, it's seems a good long term prospect for me. I'm not very emotional when it comes to where I live. As long as it suits me, I'll live there. So don't get dramatic please?

As for scams in Italy and it being a solely Southern thing I question you? And I say from experience that 30 years ago these scams were influencing the whole of Italy and it wasn't solely a Southern influence as the scams now extend to the EU in it's entirety. Whether the people who perpetrate these scams are living in the North or South of Italy or indeed originate from Russian or Albania nowadays?

I'm rattled in as much as I don't know what your driving at.

[QUOTE=Susan P]Giovanni

I'm rattled in as much as I don't know what your driving at.[/QUOTE]

actually sue driving nothing at you, your posts of late have been,well ..interesting and informed.
still everytime john gives out usefull info,it becomes clear that he either has to explain his intensions, because straight away he is attacked as anti puglia,
or people go on about how abbruzzo also has its faults,which every region
does, but thats never an answer to the topic raised,its just a cover.

as for the scams bit, southern italy is quite capable of these things, without
russians,or albanians being mentioned,its an artform,heritage! type thing,
nothing much to be pride of i know.alas its true though.

[quote=giovanni]actually sue driving nothing at you, your posts of late have been,well ..interesting and informed.
still everytime john gives out usefull info,it becomes clear that he either has to explain his intensions, because straight away he is attacked as anti puglia,
or people go on about how abbruzzo also has its faults,which every region
does, but thats never an answer to the topic raised,its just a cover.

A cover for what? What are you on about? It's about giving balanced views. No one is trying to cover up anything. No one from Puglia within this thread has asked john his intensions or accused him of being anti Puglia.

really.... when someone starts a topic on an issue concerning puglia,then
these concerns should be addresed or as you say balanced.
but when to balance it so to speak,you lash out that another region has its
faults,then you are not addresing the issue, you are only smoke screening,
a cover....
you have asked him to be less biased? why? he is not biased thats your assumption
that he is biased towards puglia,why?
and how on earth do you give a more balanced view, when you repeat whats on
the news?

[QUOTE=adriatica]

...[/QUOTE]

Well what is this ocratossina, what does it do and how does it effect us. Is it any worse than tabacco and alcahol, both of which are poisons and I'd recon 99.9% of us voluntarily put either or both into our bodies each and every day, both killers. A quick search on ocratossina only threw up Italian websites so is it just an Italian based poison.

[quote=giovanni]really.... when someone starts a topic on an issue concerning puglia,then
these concerns should be addresed or as you say balanced.
but when to balance it so to speak,you lash out that another region has its
faults,then you are not addresing the issue, you are only smoke screening,
a cover....[/quote]

I have never lashed out at any other part of Italy ever! Balanced means, issues can happen elsewhere and not all problems are concentrated just in the south. Putting things into perspective. In fact two of us from puglia asked what is was about right at the start of the thread.

[QUOTE=paula hampson]Well what is this ocratossina, what does it do and how does it effect us. Is it any worse than tabacco and alcahol, both of which are poisons and I'd recon 99.9% of us voluntarily put either or both into our bodies each and every day, both killers. A quick search on ocratossina only threw up Italian websites so is it just an Italian based poison.[/QUOTE]

It seems to be some kind of biological/funghal derivative. My italian is so crap I can't understand what the information available on it is saying but I get the impression it is some kind of lachrymator/respiratory irritant. I might be completely wrong of course.............

[QUOTE=Flyingveepixie]It seems to be some kind of biological/funghal derivative. My italian is so crap I can't understand what the information available on it is saying but I get the impression it is some kind of lachrymator/respiratory irritant. I might be completely wrong of course.............[/QUOTE]

I thought is strange the site's are all Italian or do we have it in Uk under a different name. Anybody have an idea?

[QUOTE=paula hampson]I thought is strange the site's are all Italian or do we have it in Uk under a different name. Anybody have an idea?[/QUOTE]

I think it is Ochratoxin - [url=http://www.nutrition.org.uk/home.asp?siteId=43&sectionId=834&parentSection=473&which=undefined]see here[/url].

Looks like anyone who drinks Italian wine from the south has been exposed to it for years anyway........... (hasn't done me any harm :eek: - yet)

[quote="Occurrence of ochratoxin A in Italian wines"][url=http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/tandf/tfac/2001/00000018/00000007/art00009]A total of 96 red wines and 15 white dessert wines produced mostly in the years 1995-97 in 19 Italian regions were analysed for ochratoxin A (OTA). The amount of OTA ranged from < 1 to 3856 ng/l, the median (mean) was found to be 90 (419)ng/l for the red wines and 8 (736)ng/l for the white dessert wines. Our survey shows that the geographic region of origin has a strong influence on OTA contamination, both for red and for dessert wines: in fact, wines produced in southern Italy were markedly more contaminated. The overall median (mean) OTA concentration in the red wines produced in the four Italian areas (northwest, northeast, centre and south) was 2 (11), 90 (81), 134 (295) and 1264 (1233)ng/l. The same trend was observed for the white dessert wines: OTA concentrations of over 1000ng/l were found in four out of five samples from southern Italy (1185, 2454, 3477, 3856ng/l), while central and northern samples showed very low contamination. The contribution of wine to mean daily OTA intake can be considered negligible in the case of people drinking wine manufactured in northern and central Italy; this is not true if a medium drinker constantly consumes red wine produced in southern Italy: in this case wine alone could supply the diet with an amount of OTA equal to or even above the tolerable daily intake of 5ng/kg body weight recommended by the Scientific Committee on Food of the European Commission.[/url] [/quote]

Does it not say the grain came from Canada or have I missunderstood?

does this mean my tressured wine from san severo is no good?

[quote=Aliena]Do you have the rum babas?

[/quote]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Yeah, but they're underneath the missiles! ;) [/FONT][/COLOR]

[QUOTE=giovanni]does this mean my tressured wine from san severo is no good?[/QUOTE]

Not at all. It just means enjoy it now, because you never know what tomorrow brings. ;)

Is this not the GM crop issue ...we had that in Kettering before we left ???

Oooops ...sorry ...not a region of Italy !!!:D

John...I love you !!!.:) ..And yes..I watch the news here as well !!..and you were really trying to behave weren't you...back to therapy !!!(Joke John...a Joke !!!)

Personally ( and I MEAN personally 'cos I live here ) I am grateful someone in our totally corrupt society is actually attempting to do something about it .

......Aliena...here are 95 Rum babas..please take Giovanni off to the 'naughty ' room . !!!

[QUOTE=paula hampson]I thought is strange the site's are all Italian or do we have it in Uk under a different name. Anybody have an idea?[/QUOTE]

It might be a generic name.

It seems to me that what several of the "Puglia Posse" are actually saying, is, the newspapers are full of articles every day, some good, some bad, yet only the negative Puglian ones are promulgated here....
Of course, on the plus side, this could be because the powers that be are actively fighting against the corruption, and tackling the issues more effectively and openly in Puglia than elsewhere in Italy...;)

[QUOTE=GeorgeS]It seems to me that what several of the "Puglia Posse" are actually saying, is, the newspapers are full of articles every day, some good, some bad, yet only the negative Puglian ones are promulgated here......;)[/QUOTE]

And isn't it funny its the same person who brings the articles to our attention :cool:

I heard this article was started by a jealous wine merchant from Montepulciano d'Abruzzo, the divine and excellent Primativos and Salentino are emerging as the new big new award winning wines...I personally will take the risk slurp slurp hicc :p :eek: :p :eek:

[quote=GeorgeS]
Of course, on the plus side, this could be because the powers that be are actively fighting against the corruption, and tackling the issues more effectively and openly in Puglia than elsewhere in Italy...;)[/quote]

Yes, As I said things can only get better!!! Hugs to George :D

[QUOTE=paula hampson]And isn't it funny its the same person who brings the articles to our attention :cool:[/QUOTE]

on the otherhand, isn't it strange that no one from that region,listens to the
news......or maybe they try to keep it quiet....:rolleyes:

[quote=giovanni]on the otherhand, isn't it strange that no one from that region,listens to the
news......or maybe they try to keep it quiet....:rolleyes:[/quote]

On the otherhand maybe you should read the threads properly!

[quote=alex and lyn]Is this not the GM crop issue ...we had that in Kettering before we left ???
[COLOR=black]Oooops ...sorry ...not a region of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Italy[/COLOR][COLOR=black] !!! [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]John...I love you !!!. ..And yes..[/COLOR][COLOR=red]I watch the news here as well !!..[/COLOR][COLOR=black]and you were really trying to behave weren't you...back to therapy !!!(Joke John...a Joke !!!)[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Personally ( and I MEAN personally [/COLOR][COLOR=red]'cos I live here[/COLOR][COLOR=black] ) I am grateful someone in our totally corrupt society is actually attempting to do something about it . [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]......Aliena...here are 95 Rum babas..please take Giovanni off to the 'naughty ' room . !!![/quote][/COLOR]

To give some context to the whole Puglia thing...

In the (very) late 90's I was involved in an Italian government initiative to improve the dire economic state of the Mezzogiorno (it wasn't the first or the last and had about as much impact as the others - about zero).

Endemic criminality (not Albanians etc but locals) was identified as a major factor - no-one wanted to invest in the area because of the risks and it was difficult to get skilled people to move to/stay in the area because of the limited opportunities.

Various investigations were made as to how criminality could be more effectively combatted but one useful input was from a UK person who had been involved in combatting the paramilitaries in Northern Ireland. The Italian police found many parallels with the situation in NI - , protection rackets, drug dealing empires etc in communities with little faith in the 'authorities'.

It is quite possible in the S of Italy to live, particulalrlyas an expat, in ignorance of many of these things and there are many good people in the S who desperately try to change it and I do think things are slowly improving - but that is the way it is.

Thanks fieramosca, As I keep saying things can only get better because people do care.

[COLOR=black]For those that keep throwing accusations of 'heads being buried in sand':[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]How many of you know exactly what is going on in your area, with the exception of Adriatica of course.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]As far as ignorance about what does or does not happen in Puglia or anywhere else, is down to how much time one is expected to read every newspaper article, watch every news item and if living in an area how much the topic is likely to come up in conversation. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]I personally have far better things to do with my life than constantly search for every new bit of evidence of why an area has problems. This does not mean that I don’t care or am not interested. The south clearly has it’s problem to hit the news so frequently but as fieramosca states people do care and time will tell.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]So can we drop this [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Puglia[/COLOR][COLOR=black] and everywhere else divide on here it’s getting really monotonous. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Adriataca continue to post balanced and in perspective reports of the news and everyone else just shut up about [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Puglia[/COLOR][COLOR=black] unless you can add some relevance to the report and not have digs at those of us that like the place! [/COLOR][COLOR=black][/COLOR]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]

[QUOTE=fieramosca]To give some context to the whole Puglia thing...

very interesting post

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Apart from a general rise in crime since the 1950’s, post-war Italy has seen 2 major crime waves: both occurred during the 1970’s and 1990’s. Most of it was largely due to an increase in theft, although the 1980’s also witnessed a general expansion of organised crime. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Much of attitudes we are seeing on these pages are fed, I believe, by northern popular opinion that crime is part of the southern culture. In fact, if you examine the conviction rates between the North/Centre and the Mezzogiorno, southerners were 2.5 times more likely than northerners to be convicted for crime. However, further investigation reveals that magistrates in the mezzogiorno were able to deal with crime far more effectively than their more liberal counterparts in the centre and north. I think you can all draw your own conclusions.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[I][COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=red]“sorry puglia nothing beats the political/banking scandals” [/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/I]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]I disagree with this view. During the 1980’s the entire Italian political system was degenerate. More importantly, one of the most notorious cases actually came from the North involving corruption within a major city council and the corrupt practices of a regional president. Problems past and present are not a question of latitude or longitude, but a national question. As fieramosca says..."that is the way it is" and we have to learn to live with it.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[QUOTE=fieramosca]To give some context to the whole Puglia thing...

'little faith in the authorities' .........do you mean like here in the UK?

[QUOTE=trullomartinafranca]A cover for what? What are you on about? It's about giving balanced views. No one is trying to cover up anything. No one from Puglia within this thread has asked john his intensions or accused him of being anti Puglia.[/QUOTE]
Will you all shut up bitching about Puglia,. If you have plenty to moan about it then get out of here and do your moaning back in the U.K. leave Puglia for the Puglians.

Well said Rina.

Welcome to the forum Rina, well said, and I must say that was a very passionate first post. Do you have a connection with Puglia..:D

[QUOTE=Charles Joseph][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Apart from a general rise in crime since the 1950’s, post-war Italy has seen 2 major crime waves: both occurred during the 1970’s and 1990’s. Most of it was largely due to an increase in theft, although the 1980’s also witnessed a general expansion of organised crime. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[I][COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=red]“sorry puglia nothing beats the political/banking scandals” [/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/I]

Charles,

I largely agree with you - some of the bigest political/financial scandals in recent years have been in the North.

There is one thing to bear in mind when genrealising about Italy and that is that it has only existed for 130 years or so - before that there were a variety of rulers and systems of government in different parts of the peninisula. The mezzogiorno was ruled from Napoli by the Borbone kings and had a different culture and (at a lower level) system of government from say Toscana or the Papal states. One facet of this is the 'clientelismo' which is so much more prvalent in the south - another is the Mafia which originated as a means of protection (in it's proper sense) of the poor population against landowners and government officials.

The shadow of this history still hangs over the south (but is slowly changing) - but is unlikely to directly impact most of the people on this forum, though inefefctual use of public funds could have an indiretc effect. As far as crime rates are concerned I think the differnces between city and country probably far outweigh any N/S divide - but I wouldn't trust any Italian crime figures.

Overall I wouldn't (apart from avoiding Napoli like the plague) let crime rates etc influence where I bought in Italy - I would look at the overall socio-economic state of an area, and, in general, the worse it is the cheaper the property (much like the UK). That will affect things like availability and quality of services (public and private) such as education, healthcare etc. - some of those wonderfully cheap houses are in the Italian rural equivalent of UK declining industrial towns (another place for cheap houses....) the young educated people have moved ouit leaving the old and uneducated and there is not much real economic activity. Consider some of these factors before stereotypes of criminal southerners.

2360 puglia news story

Bad News

Trees

Hello !

My two pennorth....

Apuglian wine

Che cosa???

Well said