2462 a new law

agrre or not ...legislation has just been passed here where it makes it legal now to defend your property...in general your home ...against attack...in general robberies..

there have been a few highlight cases here where people have shot burglars and gone to prison...i think the same problem has happened in the uk... now it is your right to defend yourself and if you have a gun and you are pretty well allowed to have them here.... shoot them down ...so to speak...

cannot say i am too worried about thieves getting a bit of their own medicine.... a real problem here ...especially in the more wealthy north has been a spate of "villa robberies" ... often from gangs operating from outside italy ... with very violent reactions to people that have no cash or gold in the house.... it had and has become practice here in those areas affected to keep a wad of cash around so that the burglars go away happy...rather than beat you up.... now maybe the burglars will worry a bit more about the homeowners reaction....

... i do think you have to be resident here and of good character to be able to buy the hand gun in the first place...

Category
General chat about Italy

Hi John,

I don't much care for guns myself but I'm considering it after our friends were recently burgled, place stripped of everything, including the kitchen sink. They arrive on Friday to their newly renovated place, recently furnished for their holidays and they have nothing, nothing but bricks and mortar.

We too were burgled on arrival and the carribinieri did nothing to my knowledge.

How do you get a gun license?

Good on those Italians!!

Hmmmm shall we send a copy of that law to Tony B??? :rolleyes:

"Wake up, Steph!!!"

.... awww just a dream...

macy...sorry not my area of expertise but... if you pop down to the local gun shop... and try to buy one ...take your id etc... am sure they will fill out the forms for you....

am sorry about your breakins.... carbeneri are renowned for their efficiency all over italy.... in fact they are the subject of at least a million jokes and i do believe the number is rising....

I would think this law would be more likely to lead to an increase in murdered/wounded householders who the criminal fraternity must now assume are armed. :(

Having lost my rose tinted lenses I have been worried to some degree about the security of property. My plan was to advertise the fact that we are not "rich brits". Obviously when they see me wiv me mac wandering round the village carrying me white lightening askin "Got 10 cents pal" the message might get around. :D

I just can't imagine flying out to a completed renovation to find it burgled :mad:

Dave

Am glad this law has been passed. Even if you do not agree with having firearms in the home, it is gratifying that citizens are allowed the choice of whether to defend themselves or not.

ynot

good point .. the laws anouncement was also accompanied by several stories from america about children shooting each other at home... the magistrates here are dead against it.. as is most of the union/left/mr prodi...the marathon runner...

dont start about racism please is a fact here that people feel..true or not ...under siege from the albanian mafia ... strange in a country that invented it... but the violence often accompanied by these robberies has led to a real fear.... and quite a backlash...

i respect everyones right to defend their home and their family... i dont know if this is the right way or not.. but for myself... if someone came into my home i would not feel very happy if they threatened me and if in response i hurt them and ended up in prison...

People defending themselves against attackers is one thing; I know if someone broke into my home and threatened my family I'd blow his head off if I could. But anticipating such event by having a loaded gun in the house is quite another - the potential for it all to go wrong is just too great - so where do you draw the line? Practise your knife throwing skills? But then maybe not may people break in whilst the house is obviously occupied, so its irrelevant if you have weapons if you're not there to use them?

What I would like to hear more about is this burglary business - people coming to their new renovated holiday home to find it stripped bare. Presumably the property was an isolated/coutry property? Surely then its a sitting duck? Does this sort of thing happen in towns? I can't imagine anyone getting away with in Penne, where everyone knows what goes on. Or maybe tis I with the rose tinted specs now?

when looking at properties in italy,it has gradually dawned on me how most of them seem to have multiple locks,locked gates and bars on the windows-the level of security measures taken seems much higher than in rural areas here.also,many properties display a sign saying that they are checked by private security companies.are these owners being over cautious or is burglary a big problem?

[quote=red tulip]when looking at properties in italy,it has gradually dawned on me how most of them seem to have multiple locks,locked gates and bars on the windows-the level of security measures taken seems much higher than in rural areas here.also,many properties display a sign saying that they are checked by private security companies.are these owners being over cautious or is burglary a big problem?[/quote]

For holiday homes, I think many of the Insurance companies insist on extra security. I read somewhere that a number of companies insist on bars on windows that are less than 10 feet from the ground/street.
Make sense, I guess, if you're only there 10 weeks in the year.

[QUOTE=Macy]Hi John,

I don't much care for guns myself but I'm considering it after our friends were recently burgled, place stripped of everything, including the kitchen sink. They arrive on Friday to their newly renovated place, recently furnished for their holidays and they have nothing, nothing but bricks and mortar.

We too were burgled on arrival and the carribinieri did nothing to my knowledge.

How do you get a gun license?[/QUOTE]

Just want to let you know about how things are going with the burglary I told you of, well the neighbours of our friends, too, were burgled, not once but twice. The second time, the lads/maybe lasses too, returned for the sink and taps, etc but this time they had the keys to the property. The silly bugger, owner, knew the keys had been swiped too on the first burglary as they all had been kept neatly in a set of drawers, but he didn't change the locks so the b....s just walked in the front door and took what was left. Nice one!
Yes, isolated property, yes witnesses, sort of, noticed the lights on, front door open, thought someone had popped by to check on things...how wrong can we be.....and yes, he's hissing....

We still can't work out though, why our friend's property was burgled via the kitchen window, even the washing machine and refridgerator went out the kitchen window??? They sent a very large stone, (several available in the garden, as in most about this way), through the kitchen window as opposed to the unexposed main door?? Maybe they just wanted to make it seem harder than it was?

[QUOTE=Sano]Am glad this law has been passed. Even if you do not agree with having firearms in the home, it is gratifying that citizens are allowed the choice of whether to defend themselves or not.[/QUOTE]

you do not need a gun to defend yourself!
have never understood how folks think ?
i mean on this thread,it has been mentioned how some have been burguled.
this isn't a violent crime, in itself,so how does a gun help.if no one was in,
and thats usually when they take place the gun is irrelevent.

if on the otherhand you are in, if you pull a gun, then you must be prepared
to use it and kill someone!
are belongings more valuable than humans?it seems some are able to devolve
rather than evolve!

what wrong with the good old base ball bat?
so many on here state they are moving to italy for "the better life"

so where does owning a gun come into it.......look at america everyone has
a gun, everyone shoots each other... road range, arguments over boundarys,
you boy sh..gging my daughter... out comes the gun. bang.
how often have you read latly of kids talking the parents guns to school.
and bang bang bang..... guns.. bad idea...

in general holiday homes with no one in or even homes during the day that are empty with people out working are not the subject of that much burglary here... macy and her friends were maybe unlucky.... well there is often an arrangement between someone who works for people selling high value goods and thieves ...ie new cars often dissapear within a few days of purchase...

the main problems here are the personal attack robberies ... because of the system here of keeping large wads of cash around ... and the love of italians for displaying expensive jewelry and keeping it in the house thieves know that if they break in and threaten someone they will get a result... which is one of the reasons front doors are so expensive here... a front door without an inner steel lining is no use... ... several bolts and locks also required... and why most houses have shutters ... ...

neighbours or not doesnt really matter... the police are generally closed at night outside the main cities... and neighbours fast asleep... and even if they woke up they often know its better to leave well alone.... its not like the uk where maybe if your big enough and foolish enough and go and chase one of these people they might brandish a knife... here theyll just shoot you....

the robberies often occur in bouts of weeks... a gang moves in...gets local info from a small time thief... works every night for a week or so and then dissapears... the police try to stay out of the way because they dont really want to get shot either....

what then happens is the national police force begins collating info.... gets everything into order and then raids the gangs operating headquarters with sort of army style tactics...ie lots and lots of police with lots of guns... and that way the gangs generally will not start shooting... i regard this way of operating fairly sensible...as they dont get payed an awful lot and realise that if they go chasing people at night with one police car theyll get hammered...

its all very organised and specific... so in general i would say do not worry too much... they are really after cash and jewelery... not tvs and computers...... if it happens be polite and give them everything they ask for .... and remember they are in a totally different league to your average uk house thieve... and choose a low crime area to live if this is a major worry for you...

having just read giovannis reply... i happen to agree with him... i think it takes a different type of mentality to be able to use a gun and shoot someone... and most of us might well not be able to ... the thieves will not have that restrictive trait within

what about a sign: "please don't feed or excite the snakes" ?
Is this burglary happening all over? In France, it's a given: if you have a villa, you'll be robbed and yes they seem to take everything - even underwear! Here in France it's blamed on the Roma.
sarah

well Italians have always had style!
sarah

[QUOTE=Aliena]That's right.. don't use a gun to blow the buggars brains out.. smash his head in with a baseball bat instead!
Duh![/QUOTE]

Well, it's very easy to pull a trigger and regret your mistake a second later.

Besides I'd always go for the knees with a baseball bat; as an ex lady footballer I know how vulnerable they are!

[QUOTE=sueflauto]Well, it's very easy to pull a trigger and regret your mistake a second later.

Besides I'd always go for the knees with a baseball bat; as an ex lady footballer I know how vulnerable they are![/QUOTE]

Isn't it terribly difficult playing soccer in all those ballgowns and tiara's ???

Why do you think they're called 'ballgowns' if not for playing football in?

[QUOTE=alan haynes]Why do you think they're called 'ballgowns' if not for playing football in?[/QUOTE]
Errrrm, Well, I, errr....:o :confused:

[QUOTE=sarahd]what about a sign: "please don't feed or excite the snakes" ?
Is this burglary happening all over? In France, it's a given: if you have a villa, you'll be robbed and yes they seem to take everything - even underwear! Here in France it's blamed on the Roma.
sarah[/QUOTE]

And in Spain. Been robbed 3 times. Last time they took my clothes, undies and an iron... suggested to the police that they should maybe be looking for a tranvestite thief :rolleyes:

What a lovely story, sorry he's no longer with you, but, I bet the coat is warm... :)

Rottweiler cross Bouvier des Flanders make excellent (and intimidating) guard dogs. We had two back in SA, never had a day's problems while they were alive. Shortly after the last one died we had our first break in, and there were regular thefts after that until the house was sold.

The major problem though is that if someone is intent on breaking in, and if they are as determined as John suggests, they will poison your dogs in advance of their visit, and, I would love to see the result of anyone going against a thug with a gun by weilding a baseball bat !?!?!, no I think I'll stick to the ballgown and tiara ;-)

Not sure which is scarier; me in a ball gown and tiara (not quite my style) or in shorts so that you can see my footballers' knees. At least I've never had problems with cellulite, so I can't complain really.

On break-ins: if professionals think it worth their while there's not a lot will stop them. It's making the balance in your favour and putting off the opportunist amateurs. Either way, I see no place for guns, although we can all dream of the b******s getting their come-uppance.

so, can i assume, that if you come home to a poisoned dog,you will know
that you are on someones to rob list?
do robbers knock? i mean gun or no gun,how does it help,unless you keep the
gun in your pocket at all times. the chances are the first time you come face
to face with a robber,he will already have the upperhand.whether he is armed
or not,as you cannot simply leave a gun lying around,but you can kick other
things in each and every room, no not base bull bats,that was an examble.
there are so many items on the market for SELF DEFENCE, ie mace those
50,000 volt items,that i think guns are an overkill.

becides think the law was only passed because ALL those politicans have to
many items they cannot insure.... because they really shoudn't have them!

[QUOTE=GeorgeS]The major problem though is that if someone is intent on breaking in, and if they are as determined as John suggests, they will poison your dogs in advance of their visit, and, I would love to see the result of anyone going against a thug with a gun by weilding a baseball bat !?!?!, no I think I'll stick to the ballgown and tiara ;-)[/QUOTE]

Dog and people loving thieves in Spain :rolleyes: They use a type of quick acting spray sleeping gas. People opposite me have a big villa and muti dogs. They woke up one morning last year to find all the furniture and 3 cars missing. Family and dogs slept though the whole thing, but at least they are alive and well.

quick acting gas was used on a lodger of friends of ours in Lanuvio - they were up and about in the house ,upstairs , and he was asleep downstairs with his brand new Golf parked outside - burglars entered, gassed said chappie took his car keys and drove the golf away and he didn't realize till he woke up the next day. Our friends were guilt ridden but they didn't hear a thing. Worst thing was Caribinieri couldn't be bothered to hear about it - mind same in the UK for most house /car burglaries

[QUOTE=Aliena]Listen..

If ya don't wanna ever take any risk of getting robbed or put to sleep.. you have 3 choices.. either buy a house in Italy next door to a "Nonno Camorra" and make very good friends with him.. OR.. live in a tent.. OR.. or don't buy a house.. anywhere.. in any country.. ever!

:) :)

PS. George.. I'm waiting for a vey special delivery of 5 new pelts. I believe they are as soft as velvet and will make a lovely evening wrap! ;)[/QUOTE]

I'll probably qualify for one option ... the tent that is :eek:

We left the UK, about seven years ago, after three very successful burglaries at our house, successful as we'd replaced everything for them to steal again. But the first time they came, removed all the CDs but one, they left me Glen Miller's Band Music. I gave the CD away after that, too many bad memories. The police chuckled though, stopped however, when I showed them out the door. I caught them the last time, and I'd have loved to have had a gun at the ready when they just turned around and laughed. It would at least stop the B.......s smiling!

2 years ago i was at home in london with my young daughters,husband away.i woke in the middle of the night to hear my front door opening.i have never been so scared.i grabbed the air gun from under the bed(we use it to frighten the foxes)and went towards the stairs,switching on the downstairs light.i was shaking so much that i decided to put down the gun.downstairs the front door was wide open but nobody there.i assume that the light came on and they left.our house is now like fort knox.but at least i know that i would not be able to shoot a burglar in those circumstances,and i am quite pleased about that.

I never knew about this law until reading through the posts today ( I don't visit the forum much now ) but I'm glad it exists as I slept with my long handled axe by my bedside back in November when I went over to Italy for a week and found the house had been stripped and the doors left wide open for all to enter (no sign of break in damage incidentally).

As they had left a couple of things I was convinced they would come back and fully intended to use the axe if they did, but they didn't. Anyway, I'm going back next week for a few days to tidy up in the hope that we can sell the place soon as the break in just ended the dream completely for us.

It's very sad that your dream was shattered by a robbery, and I genuinely sympathise. But at the same time, I am a bit bewildered by people who take on the ownership of a number of unoccupied properties (by definition, anybody who has a "holiday home" has at any given time, at least one unoccupied property, unless there are handy "nonni").

It used to be a given of my life that I had a number of unoccupied properties. Burglary was not the only disaster which could befall them. I do think that the practicalities of having responsibilty for "equipped real estate" is an aspect of second-home-ownership which is frequently ignored. And for the posters in this thread who champion a village house or apartment, under neighbourly observance, I completely go along with their views.

Just look at house contents insurance policies in Italy: if you are able to claim "multiple occupation" the premium goes down. For future dreamers, think about this before you commit to that remote location.

I could never shoot anyone who was just robbing me....

[quote=Flyingveepixie;53368]I never knew about this law until reading through the posts today ( I don't visit the forum much now ) but I'm glad it exists as I slept with my long handled axe by my bedside back in November when I went over to Italy for a week and found the house had been stripped and the doors left wide open for all to enter (no sign of break in damage incidentally).

As they had left a couple of things I was convinced they would come back and fully intended to use the axe if they did, but they didn't. Anyway, I'm going back next week for a few days to tidy up in the hope that we can sell the place soon as the break in just ended the dream completely for us.[/quote]

Hi both of you, it happened to us too and they did come back, took the door the next time as well! Likewise our dream has been shattered, really sorry and we know exactley how you are feeling. We had grand ideas of attaching the electrics to the door before it went that is!

I guess this raises another point for the arguments about town or country when choosing a place. The place in the middle of field will be a sitting duck as regardless what alarms and sensors you instal there is unlikely to be a response. That is unless someone knows a system with an automated security response?

The 'in-town' place has the advantage of being watched over by the neighbours. But I suspect you will have to ensure you get to know your neighbours for this to apply. For those with broadband, I believe there are some remote secirity options you can add.

Perhaps the other consideration is actually types of security and its costs. These can include:Timers on the lights, Sensors linked to dog barking within the house, Sensors links to lights, etc.
I guess the big lesson this is to add security to the budget and investigate it.

We are not that remote and noway in the middle of a field. Two massive villas oposite and a family that can see our place as we can them from the other side of the lane. Also new neighbour up but one who we had met. I am not actually convinced that even neighbours help if they don't wish to. I get the feeling they just don't want to be involved.

Burglary does seem to be a major problem here, especially in rural areas and the insurance premiums reflect it.

Our village has been worked on for some months now by an organised gang who attack in the middle of the night and spray an anaesthetic gas on the inhabitants while they sleep. One of our neighbours woke up late for work as a result and did not realise they had been burgled until they got back since happily the burglars are very discriminatory.

The house across the road from us (a brand new edifice, sticks out like a sore thumb, mother in law always gossiping about how much money they have) has been attempted several times and the place is an absolute fortress.

My advice - discretion. The front of our house is on the back as it were and from the road side our house looks like agricultural buildings and thats the way it will stay, we wont paint it, touch up the plastering or anything.

Also get a vicious dog.

Its not all bad though. We lived in France before and we had a very minor break and the Police said it was the first crime in five years - the place was too boring and miserable even for criminals. I would rather live here.