9092 How much did it really cost?

Our farmhouse was habitable (well after we had replaced the entire kitchen that the previous owner took with her). We did restore outbuildings which came in just about on budget. For me I would never dream of buying a pile of bricks, but have seen for others the end result which have been lovely. It would be just too scary and I would be terrified that we would have run out of money and still had nowhere to live. I realise other people are braver or more foolhardy(?) but will be interesting to read other members comments.
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[quote=Nielo;85715]

So is it actually a bargain or not? I don't expect anyone to say how much their house or renovations cost but is it really worth buying something in need of major work or would it be better to buy something which is immediately habitable?
[/quote]

Depends on what you want. If you buy a wreck and rebuild it you do it your way to your standards and tastes. If you buy something renovated you pay for other peoples tastes. This house needed minimal work. I've redone the heating system [more or less] and will end up repainting. I'm also using the savings to pay for a few perks. Wood fired oven. Solar heating. Maybe a thermocamino. But of course none of that is needed just wanted.

The house came with a ktichen that I refused to pay extra for. I'd rather rip it out and redo it so why pay for the cupboards and appliances?

The house up the street is for sale at twice mine. The current owners have done a fair bit of work but if the buyer doesn't like the choices they'd be better off with something like mine and using the savings to pay for new work.

Of course it's safer to buy finished and move in ready but don't discount the costs to redo the home.

I suppose it all depends what you want your finished project to look like. We bought 2 houses together and virtually redesigned everything internaly. The whole roof came off, and internal floors were remade with new beams etc. It all comes down to what you are willing to pay in the end for what you want as a dream home in another country, especially if you intend to live here on a permanent basis.
Nothing is ever perfect, so everything depends on the budget you have and the leeway to get what you actually want. For a holiday home, then it would probably be a low budget, but for a permanent life then expectations will be much higher.

Hi
I think maybe you have to consider what you would change in a turn key property.
Most people would change the Kitchen, maybe a bathroom or two, as already pointed out, you would look at the heating system.
For our part, we could not have afforded at turn key, built and kitted out the way we have it now. Even with the builders costs, we worked out, we are better off by at least 45 percent.
Taking the location, size of the land and the life style into account.......priceless.
And I as A&R pointed out........we fall into the foolhardy section.

We set off to buy small for restoration and actually bought big and restored. We fell in love with what we now own - but did the sums and were happy (both with the job the previous Italian owner had done and that it would have cost us more to reproduce it at elsewhere).
Of course since then we have sunk a small fortune into "improvements".

[quote=deborahandricky;85738]Hi
I think maybe you have to consider what you would change in a turn key property.
Most people would change the Kitchen, maybe a bathroom or two, as already pointed out, you would look at the heating system.
For our part, we could not have afforded at turn key, built and kitted out the way we have it now. Even with the builders costs, we worked out, we are better off by at least 45 percent.
Taking the location, size of the land and the life style into account.......priceless.
And I as A&R pointed out........we fall into the foolhardy section.[/quote]
Don't think it foolhardy, the main thing is to get what you want within the budget you have set. My wife is very good on interior design, and we worked out what we wanted the interior to look like. 3 rooms were converted to 1, external second house steps removed, as was the annexe, so a lot of foresight into what the fascia should be. Next job is to convert the barn into a terrace area, but then everything comes to those who wait!!!!

We bought our properties in "move-in" condition -- and furnished as well, in Puglia from older couples whose children were uninterested in the properties. In both cases there were cosmetics needed -- some furnishings updated, some painting, artwork for the walls, and a few new appliances. All in all, less than 5,000 euros to replace fridges, stoves, dishwashers, clothes washers, lawn furniture, and get some new linens. I am definitely willing to live with a less gorgeous bathroom and kitchen (for a while at least) that are functional, while I expand my Italian contacts/connections circle -- eventually I will replace that ugly bathroom tile, and put an insert into the fireplace side of the termocamino, but I felt it would be an advantage to integrate into my area first, and spend my money with some local knowledge "under my belt". We fixed up the rental villa first, for obvious reasons!

We spent €41,000 for a part of an historic palazzo and needed a mere €11,000 to make it habitable. Compared to where we lived before in Surrey it's a mere snip. Couldn't have bought a garage for it.

We knocked down & rebuilt & I know we would be hard pressed to make our money back if we sold it! However I wouldn't say I wouldn't do it again as I now know the ins & outs so coulkd probably do it again with huge savings. However for anyone buying here for the first time & particularly those who would be abroad while the renovation was taking place I would recommend buyng something done to at least a builders finish rather than an entire rebuild

We set out with our sensible heads on and decided it was much better to buy a property that did not need total renovation. We found loads, but none of them pushed the right buttons, so with sensible heads off, ended up buying a restoration project that will end up costing us a lot more in total and therefore will take far longer (due to cashflow) to complete. To answer Nielo's original question we estimate that our restoration costs will be double the purchase price.

Is it a wise investment? In monetary terms, maybe, but we don't really care as we bought a house in this part of the world because of the environment and the people .

[quote=Luce Dell'Amore;86019]We set out with our sensible heads on and decided it was much better to buy a property that did not need total renovation. We found loads, but none of them pushed the right buttons, so with sensible heads off, ended up buying a restoration project that will end up costing us a lot more in total and therefore will take far longer (due to cashflow) to complete. To answer Nielo's original question we estimate that our restoration costs will be double the purchase price.

Is it a wise investment? In monetary terms, maybe, but we don't really care as we bought a house in this part of the world because of the environment and the people .[/quote]
Just looking at our costs as well, renovation was approx twice the price of the house purchase price. We bought a 12th century house in France originally, but the renovation costs there were 8 times more than the £12000 we paid for it, so sold it and looked here instead. Yes, that would have been cheaper than restoring our house here, but this has a much better position, more land and much better views.

I think that if you have unlimited funds (and patience) a complete restoration is OK, but you will very rarely make any profits from it. Speaking as a builder, and having bought and sold a few properties, for first time buyers, it is in my opinion far more sensible to buy a place which is immediately habitable, improvements can consequently be made at leasure, and with a feeling for the house in which you will be spending time, whether it be holidays or living full time. Restoration costs can very easily run away with themselves. I am currently selling a house in Marche which is immediately habitable, because I did most of the work myself, the costs were vastly reduced, which is reflected in the asking price, had the work been taken on by a private individual, paying normal prices for everything, it would have cost approx 3 times as much, and would hence push up the total costs for the house, it sounds obvious, and is indeed obvious, but it does seem to get overlooked by far too many people, and as a result the dream of renovating a house in Italy, becomes stressful and unnecessarily expensive.

I was inspired last week by watching a recording of Grand Designs Revisited - the sculptor who was setting up a painting school with his wife (Pugia?) - against all odds build an outstanding home/guest accommodation at a price that most of us could only deam of achieving (as in very low) - if you are on this forum sir - my compliments! Dedication, determination, vision and achievement.

An interesting question, Nielo, and one that people ask us regularly as we've had two houses in Tuscany, neither of which required anything more than cosmetic work. First house we were non-resident, living thousands of miles away, so restoration was out of the question. Second house (resident) came with what I suppose an estate agent would describe as "potential for improvement" but really required just a wall knocking down and a bit of rendering, all very easily accomplished, once the builders finally started. I think I've posted before that I am in complete awe of those who do go the full buy-a-ruin-and-restore route, especially as my closest Italian friend recently toyed with doing just this with a house she inherited. But as I think I've also posted before, she and her brother are now going to sell as neither has the stomach for what she describes as "ten years of taking builders to court" in order to complete the job. Interestingly, the only people who've so far been to see this monstrous pile of bricks are Brits...

"Potential for improvement" can be a terrible trap as it can mean anything, from cosmetic "touches" to underpinning and many other variations.
We have bought quite a few houses in different countries and in different states of desrepair. Generally, we stayed away from the ones in ruins.
Just to give a house some "cosmetic touches", as the agent would put it, can cost you as much as 60 to 80% of the purchase value. Generally, those "touches" relate to finishes, particularly kitchens and bathrooms, which are usually the most expensive items.
Something that is very important is to buy a house with a sound roof. Repairs to a roof can also prove expensive and if you don't have a solid one, it can collapse and convert your property into a hopeless ruin.... unless you have budgeted for it.

[quote=piedmont_phil;86133]I was inspired last week by watching a recording of Grand Designs Revisited - the sculptor who was setting up a painting school with his wife (Pugia?) - against all odds build an outstanding home/guest accommodation at a price that most of us could only deam of achieving (as in very low).[/quote]
I totally agree. For once an absolutely captivating programme because the budget was so tiny for what I would consider to be a fairly big job. Actually, a big job for any one, but for a man of (I'd guess) around 55-60ish, absolutely staggering. Relentless hard labour day in day out for something like 9 months. I always hate to think how much money we've had to put into restoring our house, but that programme made me feel a lot better about what we actually got for our money - a restored house, and we got to keep hold of our health & sanity.

These people are our heroes!I've watched the programme at least 3 times.

Only 1 person in 1,000 is going to have the talent to carry off such a project but imagine the thrill of looking at the end result!! And imagine the stress you saved yourselves having used no builders!!

I personally would rather do a 12 hour day labouring than have to try and chase up errant builders and waste hours waiting for them to deign to arrive and put in a few hours work.And I'm not just talking about Italy here!!

BTW I've changed my online 'name' here for no other reason than I couldnt get on the forum with the previous one!Change of security??

[quote=myabruzzohome;86281]These people are our heroes!I've watched the programme at least 3 times.

Only 1 person in 1,000 is going to have the talent to carry off such a project but imagine the thrill of looking at the end result!! And imagine the stress you saved yourselves having used no builders!!
I personally would rather do a 12 hour day labouring than have to try and chase up errant builders and waste hours waiting for them to deign to arrive and put in a few hours work.And I'm not just talking about Italy here!![/quote]

Perhaps you should also say that only one person in a thousand would have the very good fortune to be so physiaclly fit in late middle age, not be injured or to have such supportive friends and family. They were incredibly lucky in so many ways, apart from being strong and talented.

I know all this but lets not begrudge them their success!!

We always here the downside of restoration projects here so its nice just this once that we can look towards a couple that succeeded against all odds albiet with a huge dose of sheer good luck.

We made several visits to decide on the area we wanted to buy in, then took a week spending each day with a different agent to look at what was available and within our price range. We were quite clear that we wanted to live in a mediaeval hill top town, have neighbours and try to join in with the community. We were equally clear that we did NOT want a rustico, aka a pile of bricks in the middle of nowhere with land to worry about, as we do not intend to live permanently there. We had an interesting and on the whole enjoyable time and saw a wide variety of places. In the end we bought a shell i.e. the builder had renovated the outside and built the basics inside. We were then able to make some alterations to suit our needs. These included moving the kitchen from the back to the front of the house, having internal arches, making the old bricks a feature, deciding whether to have baths or showers fitted, as well as more cosmetic items such as choice of tile, brick or metal features. The price was agreed at the outset and though it was a little more than we had thought to spend, we are delighted with our house. As mentioned in previous posts we have added a fitted kitchen and a wood-burning stove (having problems with the latter).
We have been welcomed into the homes of 3 English couples who have moved to Marche and their homes are as individual and different as are they. It's horses for courses isn't it.
My advice to those thinking of buying in Italy is to think very hard about what you really want, do the sums, take legal advice, see as many properties as necessary and look into your crystal ball to see what the future holds! [B]And[/B] read the relevant threads on this forum, there's a wealth of experience and advice to be had.
Annie.