11561 How's business?

Not sure if this should be in property or travel.
We've almost finished our house now and have been advertising it for summer rental (from May). So far we have had two very late enquiries in mid December about New Year (when we were there) and one enquiry for the summer earlier this week which we responded to but heard no more.

As we've been told that January is when people start looking for summer holidays I'm starting to get a bit twitchy about the lack of interest. So my question is - are people also experiencing a lack of enquiries (ie it's the credit crunch) or are people still getting lots of enquiries and we are doing something wrong?

Chris

Category

Property Sales/Rental Advice

Well, a quick post whilst the kettle boils. I'm not in the market either as a customer or as a supplier, but in the same situation I'd get ahead of the market _now_. Never mind what rates other people are _advertising_ at, get your share of a drastically declining market. An Italian villa holiday is discretionary spending and the businesses that do best in the current recession are those that adapt. Even if not all those deposits for a reduced rate ("opening offers" if you like) convert, and cancellations are likely to happen as people's circumstances change, at least you'll have that deposit to help your cash-flow.

I haven't seen the ads of people on this forum, and it's not derived from what I read here but I do get the impression of a lack of realism around. Accommmodation rates in Italy aren't the same as in the UK. Just because people have spent a large amount of money buying a place to do up is not justification for rates which are competing with an Italian family who've owned a place for centuries.

We have friends who are fully booked except for 3 weeks for 2009. They haven't noticed any drop off in demand although very few of the people that have booked are British this year.

[quote=Penny;109460]We have friends who are fully booked except for 3 weeks for 2009. They haven't noticed any drop off in demand although very few of the people that have booked are British this year.[/quote]

So brush up on your German, and don't forget to advertise outside of the UK

[And get any website you have to be multi-lingual]

Personally - I think the drop of in bookings from UK will be accelerating as the year progresses, [as redundancies carry the unemployment rate to over 3 million in 2010] - I'd expect an increase in cancellations/'no-shows' as well - so secure your deposits [and don't spend what you have to return]

[quote=alan h;109463]So brush up on your German, and don't forget to advertise outside of the UK

[And get any website you have to be multi-lingual]

Not just German, I've heard plenty of Russians and Poles on the ski slopes this winter, as well as the usual Dutch, Germans and Scandinavians. Your other point is why I recommend getting business now!

and if anyone is looking for a German translator, I'm available!

British and American tourists are travelling in smaller numbers this year throughout the EU. It has to do with the current rates of exchange.

[quote=jepsonclough;109450]Not sure if this should be in property or travel.
We've almost finished our house now and have been advertising it for summer rental (from May). So far we have had two very late enquiries in mid December about New Year (when we were there) and one enquiry for the summer earlier this week which we responded to but heard no more.

Chris[/quote]
hi chris,yes it's pretty quiet.a guest yesterday told me that as he passed thru stansted usually bustling with people it was deserted as was half the plane and Ancona airport.yes, as the brits are dropping off we're getting more dutch,german,swedish and canadian bookings than from brits.apart from that i think you can expect to see a lot more last minute stuff this year than long up front bookings but it definitely will be quieter this year.not much one can do about it

Thanks to Sebastiano for his perspective - as a former economist I can (& do) follow the general economic trends and understand fully about exchange rates, credit crunch etc. There are indications that while holidays form part of discretionary spend they are also among the last to go and that people may trade down (so drop the weekend breaks, trade down to self catering rather than hotel, short haul rather than long haul) to save money.

My specific question was what people's experience of the actual levels of enquiries compared to previous years was rather than a general view. So I would really appreciate any current information on what is actually happening in the Italian holiday market.

Chris

Well I mentioned on another thread that a Scots/Italian woman near me who runs a restaurant with b&b/apartment lets at reasonable prices told me that last summer her bookings were down 50%.
Not sure if it's anything to do with it but I see she's now put the place up for sale.
Programme on ITV now about how the exchange rate is making an effect on bookings.

Hi Chris,

This will be our first year, so I can't help you compare year on year.

However, I did conduct quite a lot of research on both rental and guest house/b&b accommodation before we embarked on our (ad)venture and it was pretty clear that you need to take a medium to long term view, as the greatest marketing you will get will be by word of mouth recommendation. This takes time, perhaps 2-3 seasons before you reach the levels of letting you are hoping for.

You don't say how you advertise or how extensive that is and whilst you can spend quite a lot of money in specialist holiday mags and such, it's hard to calculate the payback. Rentals and b&b are never going to make us millionaires or anywhere near it, but if what you are offering is good quality, reasonable priced and well located, the business will arrive eventually. However, you have to market market market in any way you can. Once you get a few lettings, the word will spread and things will build from there - credit crunch or not.

Russ
[url=http://www.lagrandequercia-abruzzo.com]La Grande Quercia Bed & Breakfast[/url]

Good luck[quote=jepsonclough;109592]Thanks to Sebastiano for his perspective - as a former economist I can (& do) follow the general economic trends and understand fully about exchange rates, credit crunch etc. There are indications that while holidays form part of discretionary spend they are also among the last to go and that people may trade down (so drop the weekend breaks, trade down to self catering rather than hotel, short haul rather than long haul) to save money.

Chris[/quote]

Apparently online flight searches have decreased by 42%, admittedly this is not just for Italy but - as I guess most Brits would chose to fly to Italy for their summer hols rather than use up precious time driving you are unfortunately caught in the same trap. [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/4371056/Flight-bookings-fall-as-airline-makes-two-for-one-offer.html]Flight bookings fall as airline makes two for one offer - Telegraph[/url]

Also, from what friends are saying, many are holding back from booking anything as they want to wait to see what offers they can pick up nearer the time in case companies reduce prices to sell off holidays at the last minute.

Remember word of mouth can also come from 'locals' not just previous clients. Often friends want to spend a few days with us, move on for a week's S/C somewhere (usually with a pool) before coming back to us for a few days and then heading home. Therefore, we are regularly asked by friends to suggest s/c houses where they can stay in Le Marche. This especially applies to those who live in parts of the UK not served by daily budget flights as it 'fills in' the gap from flight day to the usual Sat or Sun changeover. If it is not against forum rules, why not put your website or a link to it in your signature?

So far we have about the same number of bookings as we did in January last year. What I have noticed is that we have many more Canadians and Germans (now that I have gone onto a German site) than US guests. I keep records of when and from where each guest books/finds us, so am able to check trends etc. Recently had a small flurry of bookings from Brits. We are a bit of a niche market - only for couples so we dont have large houses to fill. Have also been going for 6 years now so getting repeat bookings. I think I would be feeling more nervous if this was my first year.
I had thought that we would be getting more enquiries from the US now that Obama has been installed but not yet..

[quote=anne2;109623]Apparently online flight searches have decreased by 42%, admittedly this is not just for Italy but - as I guess most Brits would chose to fly to Italy for their summer hols rather than use up precious time driving you are unfortunately caught in the same trap. [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/4371056/Flight-bookings-fall-as-airline-makes-two-for-one-offer.html]Flight bookings fall as airline makes two for one offer - Telegraph[/url]

I have just checked the number of January viewings of our ad this year, compared to last year. Last year 354 and this year 332, so not too much difference. We have also had a similar number of bookings compared to last year. I have kept prices approximately the same as last year. So not all gloom and doom so far, anyway.

[quote=Rosebee;109759]I So not all gloom and doom so far, anyway.[/quote]

Same amongst my friends with either houses or small hotels too, bookings for the main season looking pretty much the same now as around similiar time last year with several full for the main summer weeks. Americans are travelling still though and the exchange rate has improved quite a bit on last year. But not so many, in my experience, want to rent a house for a week preferring instead small hotels, B&Bs. Like Aretina, most people report a lot more Germans heading this way this summer.

Am I allowed to mention Tripadvisor here?

[quote=PennyAW;109811]Am I allowed to mention Tripadvisor here?[/quote]

You just did. :bigergrin:

It is also important to have independent reviews on the rental websites - such as holiday-rentals.co.uk ... tripadvisor is a more general advice source.

[quote=anne2;109623]............from what friends are saying, many are holding back from booking anything as they want to wait to see what offers they can pick up nearer the time in case companies reduce prices to sell off holidays at the last minute.......................[/quote]

Looks like more Brits are planning on staying in the UK this year
[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7866756.stm]BBC NEWS | Business | Pontin's to create 2,000 new jobs[/url]

so things could prove a little more difficult this year for you property tycoons out there.

Deep snow, another wet summer.....think about it, and do people who choose to go to Pontin's ever consider a holiday in rural Italy? I doubt it. I do wonder if those paying guests who came to Italy last summer and rebooked for this, will not come back in 2010? I expect the "crunch" to affect rentals then, rather than in 2009, depending on how things turn out in the UK this year.

[quote=Noble;109868]Deep snow, another wet summer.....think about it, and do people who choose to go to Pontin's ever consider a holiday in rural Italy? I doubt it. I do wonder if those paying guests who came to Italy last summer and rebooked for this, will not come back in 2010? I expect the "crunch" to affect rentals then, rather than in 2009, depending on how things turn out in the UK this year.[/quote]

Nobel, weird coincidence for several of us were saying precisely the same earlier this afternoon. Late last year most of the people I know with houses/B&Bs were extremely apprehensive as to what would happen in 2009, but it hasn't so far been quite as bad they feared. As recently as Christmas a good friend of mine was convinced no one would book her house this summer but slowly the weeks are being filled. Not living in the UK and rarely visiting, I honestly don't have a feel for what's going on really. But the thought crossed our minds today that maybe it's like the "phoney war" syndrome, everyone fearing an attack, fully expecting it to happen but when it doesn't slowly getting back to a normal life. Sure, a frightening number of people have lost their jobs but for those still in employment, that much looked forward to fortnight in Italy or France or wherever in the summer is surely still going to be something they'll save for/make sacrifices to ensure they can manage. And, remember, renting a villa in this part of the world is still pretty good value for money when you consider what you generally get in return. We thought, if anything, perhaps the recently popular city break weekends/long haul market may be affected first.

When my husband and I have considered our holiday arrangements for this year we partly think that we should stay at home and save our money (like sensible people) but we also feel like spending a couple of weeks in a small villa in the middle of the Italian countryside just simply to get away from all the doom and gloom! I think that the more depressed we get by all the bad economic news, the more likely we are to book a flight and get away from it all! If the summer weather is also bad again this year I know many people that will be jetting off to find some sun (the bad winter has already prompted some of my friends and colleagues to book their summer abroad, even those who usually stay at home).

Luckly my husband and I still have our jobs so at least we still have a holiday to organise, where ever we decide to go.

Oh heavens, I spoke too soon, didn't I? In today's Times, Alice Thomson in the "Thunderer" column waxing lyrical about the joys of holidays in Britain. In particular the West Country and Minehead Butlins. She continues by saying, "Why would they (her children) want to go to Tuscany where they are smothered with factor 50, have to spend the morning climbing clocktowers and the afternoons taking siestas under the olive trees and swimming in freezing pools with no slides..." Think we need to start fighting back en masse against this train of thought!

We have had some adorable kids staying as guests but it does seem to me that a charming house in rural Italy and a big swimming pool, is the perfect antidote to a cold British winter and wet wet summer, for professional types who want to relax, maybe cook, drink good wine and do nothing much at all, but admire the view! If they pay for the rental and hire car in pounds, it ain't going to cost them a lot once here!

We had some friends that returned from Cornwall last year after a two weeks holiday vowing that they would never return again because they had had such a terrible time - apparently it had rained for the whole 14 days!!! Cornwall can be one of the most beautiful places when the sun shines, but unfortunately that can be very hit and miss. I am one of many that do not think they can last another winter without seeing some proper sun this summer, and it gets even better if there is also fantastic icecream, wine and italian hospitality thrown in as well.

We started talking about holidays last October as our youngest set off for Uni, and blow me, himself had the flights booked on 18th Oct! Definitely a record... We have had a few wobbles about state of £ to Euro etc, but think we deserve it! We 'saved' Italy for this time of our lives when it is just the two of us and it has been a fabulous destination, we are gradually working our way south and this year going in May (before the dear young chap comes back) (no way could we leave him in an empty house...) I think once everyone has thawed out, things have stabilised a bit (though is there talk of another interest rate cut?) and those that still have jobs will be thinking of hols... fingers crossed it is lots of the population.

Two interesting points for discussion here, kids & Italy and UK v Italy for holidays. The few occasions I came here as a child on holiday it was the swimming (in the Italian lakes) that I remember most, then the ice creams and, when I was a bit older, the boys. Oh the boys! I shall never forget being in my teens and not being able to believe how good looking the guys hanging out on Garda were. Would have been bored beyonds word though if dragged around a succession of campanile and churches, so can see where this woman in yesterday's Times is coming from on that score.
The UK has some beautiful regions - Devon & Cornwall, Snowdonia, the Scottish Highlands - can compete scenically with many parts of Italy. But Brits do need decent weather for a holiday to be a success. Think about what your friends say when they return, the first thing they mention is the weather, I reckon it can make or break a vacation. Also, it's not cheap holidaying in the UK, is it? Several of our friends and family with children have moaned in the past that the week in Cornwall at Whitsun set them back more than the fortnight in a gite in France in Aguust. Maybe camper vans are cost effective but pretty cottages invariably cost a bomb to rent and who can afford hotels in Britain? And it's the same eating out from what I remember. Back in the UK last November, going out with family to eat in a pub wasn't cheap. Whereas even around here, a relatively expensive part of Italy, a family of four could still enjoy pizzas, salad, bottle of reasonable wine, etc for under Euros 30.
In Italy we may, possibly, though I sincerely hope not, lose out to other parts of Europe this year, parts of Europe that British holidaymakers may perceive as being cheaper (gite rental in northern France, for instance). And there are bound to be those who insist on taking a British holiday just to make a point, though goodness knows what the point is. Perhaps in the end it may all come down to the quality of the product being on offer, something I know started to happen in France after a glut of holiday homes came on to the market. If you have a nice house that's well equipped and presented, have done your homework re competition, marketing, etc. you should be in a better position to secure the reservations that are out there.

Cath,

That's funny as we had a lady book with us for 2 weeks this summer as soon as she had returned from her 2 weeks of solid rain in Cornwall last August too. She wanted to book somewhere where there would be some sunshine guaranteed.

It seems that if some people [B]are[/B] spending some of their hard earned money on a holiday, then they don't all want to take the risk of a 'British Summer'.......

Looks like there is some hope for us !!!

[quote=sarahandmark;110089]Cath,

It seems that if some people [B]are[/B] spending some of their hard earned money on a holiday, then they don't all want to take the risk of a 'British Summer'.......

Looks like there is some hope for us !!![/quote]

I think as well the cost of the accommodation in Cornwall will be more than that in Italy. Admittedly you have the cost of the flights on top, but what price would you pay for sunshine?

If you have children I think you'd pay quite a bit more if the sunshine was guaranteed.

and Cornwall can be a very long drive! Friends of mine are going there this year, will be interested to see if they repeat it. We gave up on UK hols years ago, if the weather is no good (and it never was for us) you spend a fortune on alternative entertainments, and so many places are... well, a bit grim... give me sunshine any day!

[quote=PennyAW;111820]and Cornwall can be a very long drive! Friends of mine are going there this year, will be interested to see if they repeat it. We gave up on UK hols years ago, if the weather is no good (and it never was for us) you spend a fortune on alternative entertainments, and so many places are... well, a bit grim... give me sunshine any day![/quote]

I used to holiday in Cornwall quite a lot and we were always lucky with the weather, however you never knew whether it was going to be dry or not as the forecast was for mixed weather so you couldn't plan that the 'day after tomorrow you'd go to the beach', you had to grab the opportunity when you could.

Again what price would you put on guaranteed weather? Fortunately don't have to worry about that now. :smile:

11561 How's business?

business this year