2589 Relocating to Italy

[LEFT][quote=arty]ideally want to be a little inland from coast but with perhaps distant sea/hill/mountain views. At this stage thinking about older characterful properties and not adverse to some renovation/improvement though it would have to be habitable to start with. [/quote]

Take a look at the Lunigiana/Garfagnana area (N Tuscany/Liguria).
[URL="http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1107"]http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1107[/URL]

Mountains, sea, good value properties and easy to access from Pisa, Genoa, Parma, Bologna and even Milan.

[/LEFT]

Hi Roberts ,

Try to find you's living dream in Todi's country (umbria )

at The Cincinnato's dream , web site
[url]http://www.thecincinnatosdream.com[/url]

Ugo

Hi Guys
If you're seeking a place away from it all and to embedded in natural beauty and real italy try the borders of Le Marche and Umbria. I am based near a city called Camerino, where there is a University. Surrounding countryside is stunning and you have the Sibillini Mountains and Appennines to explore and admire. Its inland but not so far from the coast - an hour's easy drive, with mininal traffic. You can also reach Rome in under 3 hours. Some sites to visit:
[url]www.le-marche.com[/url], and a good agriturismo I've stayed at on a few occasions is [url]www.contradadurano.it[/url] (I think) I'm not advertising it, I just thought it a quality place to stay at and look around. Get back in touch if you want to know more.

Hi
Take a look at the Sabina area-- in particular Lago del Turano. All the advantages of the coast without the crowds-- swimming, boating,fishimg etc etc. Sublime. Spectaular Lake and mountain views, sleepy medieval villages with fantastic restaurants. No english spoken.
We got our house through [url]www.caseinsabina.com[/url] in particular-- Valleverde.
Good luck PJ

well I went to see a friend who had moved to Italy - had a new partner and set up a working in Italy9they did all the reasearch on where to live) - went for a week end in the cold snow of december in 2003 and ended up buying a place in a little village called Capestrano abuzzio - I think its magic and love it hill top village with castle - only 2 english couples - bar resturant and the locals lovely . Beware in this area the winters are hard as its high up - but 40 mins from skiing and 50 mins from beach at Pescara and cheap flights.2 or 2 .5 hours from rome depending on speed and traffic. Its a village that you have to come to and ask in bar if anything is for sale - no agents but locals will help you two I am sure (its cheap as its off the normal buying areas)- if not I am out in the summer - arrive August 17th until september the 8th if you want to call in and get a feel for the place. - its rustic and chill out.Think I have some work in the north of Italy March and May so maybe at the place at week ends if thats ant help - e mail me
Kind Regards Pamela
[url]www.food-style.co.uk[/url]

we are buying in abruzzo and have used an italian estate agent, who advertised the same property which was being sold by a british estate agent but for some €65K cheaper. the estate agent is very famous in italy but very few know of it or have mentioned it in the website: [url]www.tecnocasa.it[/url]

it's all in italian but the property advertised in there are much cheaper than what you would find in websites aimed at the foreing buyers.

I took a look at this site and searched for a Rustico in Cheiti region of Abruzzo 2 came up one 55,000 euro, one 80,000 both total rennovation projects.looking on the HAI site I found better value rusticos and more choice.Perhaps at the 'bottom' end of the market prices are the same for English Lang sites and Italian and its just when you go up into 100,000 plus things get a bit uneven?

Have to agree with Pamela on Abruzzo. Have just bought there and it's got access to everything.

To say the winters are harsh is a little misleading. It really does depend on where you are. We are on the east side of the mountains and actually get very little snow. At Christmas, we left our place where it was gloriously sunny and about five degrees and drove about ten miles over the top and had about twelve inches of snow.

As Pamela said, there is everything close by. Beach, sea and mountains and masses of cultural stuff too.

Eight flights a day in to Rome. Which by the way, once you get used to the car and driving on the right and the mountain roads, you would be able to do in about 1.5hours. (I do it in that, my parents when they come take about 2.5hours)

We used [url]www.casa-italia.dk[/url] found them very good, low pressure etc etc.

Andy

Although sometimes said to be quiet - because of its good communications - you are not far from more lively adventures.

I didnt agree when someone said it was bitterly cold in the winter - because last February I went I was sun bathing!!! (But they had also just had snow - and apparently they hadnt had snow for 25 years - but in the last 2 years it has snowed!!!!). However I went in December and it was -5 degrees (-6 degrees in the UK the same day)

Within an hour you have Parma (Ryanair from April), Pisa (Train - about an hour approx €7) and Genova (but only if you drive really fast - really 1h20mins)

For the more classic beach holidays Versilia is 40 mins away (Viareggio), 30 mins away (National Park Coastline and the Cinque Terre (Best discovered on foot or the train service))

And I understand from an Immobiliara - so it may not be true - the the EU has donated 90% of the costs to renovate the One Hundred castles of the area - (the other 10% coming from local money).

Dantes country!

Pontremoli - famous for writers/authors.

Castagni - Big chestnut festivals here!

Testarolo - big pizza like pasta - apparently the original pasta of Italy

New edit: I have looked at this post and I may delete it - I dont want this post to become a look at my region isnt it wonderful - Italy has some wonderful areas - all have their own qualities -I am pondering....

glad you did not delete it glen,it is interesting to read the good and bad points of the different areas.

[LEFT]Although we have a house in Lunigiana which we absolutely love, we've only ever planned on being there on holiday. I wonder if we would have bought in that area if we were to relocate full time. I know some people who have (including some forum members) but we're essentially city folk who really enjoy getting out into the country for a bit. Would we want to live more than a bus or train ride away from good theatre/films/museums/art galleries etc? Probably not. The culture in Lunigiana is very agrarian - great food and wine and sporting activities so you have to choose. I would also want to pick an area where it would be possible to get a good broadband connection. I might be happy to get away from it all for a while, but I'm spoiled now and cannot wait for data to download at 56kbps. [/LEFT]

I'm not sure, however, where I would look if we were going to try and live in Italy full time - within close reach of a city or town with a university perhaps? The problem is that Lunigiana is still attractively priced. Prices rise the closer you get to Pisa, Florence, Siena, Rome etc.

[LEFT]So I guess my advice would be to make sure you know clearly your own priorities. I'll be interested to hear other's ideas.[/LEFT]

Glen, No need to ponder, I have not been to your region, by you telling us what we could find there is what this forum is all about , sharing your experiences, your opinions and views, and most of all how you enjoy it, thats what is important, dont you dare delete this good insight to your part of Italy:)

thanks FRANTIANI and Red Tulip..

talking of sporting activities - Babarasco (advertised in a cafe - dont know the name of the cafe - but its just down from the Cinema on the main road) has a cycling club and I believe Villafranca is holding a Marathon or some sort of fun run in the summer

Hi Robert... What a small world. I'm also an ex-Brighton person, and have just recently moved to Le Marche. Made the big move on 1st December and so far so good.

Your plan sounds great. Good luck. The best thing you've done is become a member of this forum. I have found that anything, absolutely anything, you need to know can be found on here. :)

You've given yourself plenty of time to research where to go and live if you plan to relocate here within 4 years. I suggest you visit Italy as often as you possibly can, and use as many estate agents as you've got time for (I do have particular one that I can highly recommend, if you like).

I originally wanted to move back to Tuscany (I was born on the Isola del Giglio) but found after much research and investigation and many visits to various parts of Italy, that I preferred moving to Le Marche region.

Many people on this forum have a lot of very valuable information. Keep in touch on here and I'm sure you'll pick up a lot of interesting things...

Take care,
Daniela

Come and take a look at the beautiful and unspoilt region of Northern Lazio sometime in the next few years, before you make that final decision. Welcome to the forum, sure you will find it useful!

Dare I mention Puglia?........perhaps not!:o

Don't we all just love talking about our favourite places? I'm just buying a tiny place in Umbria. Whilst I tried some of the bigger agents I found that by going to a small independent one I got far better service. On our first visit to his office we explained (in the worst Italian possible - with diagrams too though) what we wanted and he just put a note on the door and took us off to look at houses. Larger organisations tended to be a bit dismissive - holiday makers with temporary dreams. Anyway Umbria is beautiful and so green. The Martana mountains between Spoleto and Acquasparta (just south of Todi) are lovely and yet access is easy - one and a quarter hours to Ciampino. Wish I'd found this site earlier.

Dear Robert

We have lived in Umbria for two years and absolutely love it. If you come down our way, happy to show you around!
Kind regards
Christine 19

[url]www.italiapropertymanagement.com[/url]

Only just found this posting, so sorry for the late reply. We are ex sussex as well, and moved to marche in 2002. We are so pleased that we stumbled upon the most beautiful and unspoilt region, that's marche and are lucky enough to be smack bang between mountains and the coast, with really good road links as well.

If you need any advice or any help, we'd be really happy to help - I am often in the uk - so send me a private message and will give you my phone numbers. Good luck with everything.

Pam

Hi Pam,

We are a couple from Cheshire, were about to buy a property 10mins San Ginesio Macerate. We have found a property that needs renovating in the country with land with Spectacular panorama views. My husband is a builder of 35+yrs so not to concered about renovating Been there may times befor with our other properties. We are moveing to live full time, I would like to know any info of the area that will be of help to us and moveing there, how your move went and any advice that you can offer to us that will be of help.
i.e intergrating in the commuity, Banking, Local services, what are the Beach's, sking near to this area ect ect,"Any advice will help.
Regards
Vivian...

Why not in Apulia/Puglia?Cheap,nice people,wonderful mild climate and much more! :)

Hi Vivian

Welcome to the forum, I'm sure you can get all the info you need here with a little search.

Before we visited the area we looked [URL="http://www.paradisepossible.com/marche2.asp"]here[/URL] and followed some of the routes on the [URL="http://www.paradisepossible.com/Learning/Placint1.htm"]Itineries[/URL] page to get a quick look at the region.

Good Luck.

Dave & Dawn

[QUOTE=arty]We are two guys in our mid 40's living in Brighton, UK planning to relocate to Italy within next 4 years.

We are still at a fairly early stage of our plans, but are considering a range of options from renting first through to buying small (with potential use for holiday let) to buying bigger with perhaps some holiday accomodation attached.

At this point we favour the Umbria and Marche regions, perhaps through to Abruzzo/Molise areas and ideally want to be a little inland from coast but with perhaps distant sea/hill/mountain views. At this stage thinking about older characterful properties and not adverse to some renovation/improvement though it would have to be habitable to start with.

Undecided about town/village or country location.
Whilst it seems that most are intent on "selling" you the areas they have chosen to live in i would suggest that you set your parametres first then look at different areas.Fortunately everyone likes different things (one man's meat and all that)
For example it is not easy to find in central italy old charecteristic houses which are habitable outside of towns/villages as most of these were abandoned between 60 and 20 years ago during the exodus of tenant farmers to urban areas.So you'd be looking at major structural rennovation more than even building a house ,you are more likely to find old habitable places in villages and towns but do you want to live in a village/town?Umbria/Tuscany/Marche,North Abruzzo,North Lazio ie. central italy is i think very nice but is completely different to Puglia/Calabria/Campania/Sicilia and the northern regions different again.I'd suggest some more or less extensive visits also outside of the summer period anywhere to see if you think you would want to live in an area rather than another you're always in time to find a place.All this other stuff about being half an hour from Ryan air destinations,seasides,mountains,cities and the rest is up to you...

.

Another Brightonian here - we get everywhere. We came to Tuscany last August and have been renting since then. We are only now looking for somewhere to buy. Renting is cheap in Italy compared with the UK and I would DEFINITELY advise it while you find your feet. The property market is slow in Tuscany (and Italy generally I think despite what the agent's will tell you) and there's a lot of choice. instead of rushing in to something, take your time to look around. We kept our two properties in Brighton and have rented them out. What's left after managing agents fees and the UK mortgages just about pays our rent in Italy . Here we have rented a detached three bedroom villa in a vineyard near to Lucca for the same price that we let out a tiny one bedroom flat in Hove. 600 to 800 Euros a month will get you a nice house in the countryside in Tuscany or a nice flat in one of the historical city centres. I would also advise that you to think carefully about a B and B or holiday lettings business. I'ts really hard graft and there a thousands of properties available to holiday makers. We have a couple of friends here who run holiday lettings businesses and they say it's very tough to make it pay as the market is saturated. I don't say that to put you off but to advise that you don't dive in feet first. Good luck. We are actually moving back to Brighton and will (if Banca Woolwich will lend us the money) keep a holiday house here. We've had a great time BTW.

My other bit of advice is that you open a Nationwide bank account and get internet banking for it. It's much cheaper than an Italian bank account to run, you don't pay withdrawal charges at the Bancomat machine (you can draw larger amounts than your daily limit over the counter at any bank with your passport) and you get the VISA exchange rate (currently 1.46 - 5 cents better than the tourist rate). If you move for good you will need an Italian account but so far I haven't bothered as I've been so pleased with the Nationwide and I get all my UK clients to pay me by BACS.

Hi There,

Thank you for all your very much need info apprecated. Did you find you rent house on the internet befor you left or better to look once your out there.

We ahve already sold in UK and likewise renting , drianing our monies, as you know its exspensive to rent short term in UK, So need to get buts into gear and get over there as soon as. Were looking at a flying visit within two weeks to try to get somthing sorted out, so we can then make the big move
as we have two cats to take with us already have there own Pet Passport and Sunglass at the ready !!. Have you had any quotes from removel companys to take you house stuff with you, if so please advise us to any costing you got.
Thanks again for your valuble info.

Regards.. Maxmill.

Maxmill

There are hundreds of threads on this forum you can glean lots of info from.

You need to do a search by clicking on and then typing into the search box at the top of this page for the things you need.. eg, pets, rentals, removals etc., etc.

Just about every topic is covered and it could be a faster way for you to get all the info at once.. especially as you hope to start the ball rolling quickly.

I don't think the cats will need their sunglasses just yet though! :D

:) :)

Aliena,

Thanks for the info and advice. All the best.

[QUOTE=Mhvoiceuk]Another Brightonian here - we get everywhere. We came to Tuscany last August and have been renting since then. We are only now looking for somewhere to buy. Renting is cheap in Italy compared with the UK and I would DEFINITELY advise it while you find your feet. The property market is slow in Tuscany (and Italy generally I think despite what the agent's will tell you) and there's a lot of choice. instead of rushing in to something, take your time to look around. We kept our two properties in Brighton and have rented them out. What's left after managing agents fees and the UK mortgages just about pays our rent in Italy . Here we have rented a detached three bedroom villa in a vineyard near to Lucca for the same price that we let out a tiny one bedroom flat in Hove. 600 to 800 Euros a month will get you a nice house in the countryside in Tuscany or a nice flat in one of the historical city centres. I would also advise that you to think carefully about a B and B or holiday lettings business. I'ts really hard graft and there a thousands of properties available to holiday makers. We have a couple of friends here who run holiday lettings businesses and they say it's very tough to make it pay as the market is saturated. I don't say that to put you off but to advise that you don't dive in feet first. Good luck. We are actually moving back to Brighton and will (if Banca Woolwich will lend us the money) keep a holiday house here. We've had a great time BTW.

My other bit of advice is that you open a Nationwide bank account and get internet banking for it. It's much cheaper than an Italian bank account to run, you don't pay withdrawal charges at the Bancomat machine (you can draw larger amounts than your daily limit over the counter at any bank with your passport) and you get the VISA exchange rate (currently 1.46 - 5 cents better than the tourist rate). If you move for good you will need an Italian account but so far I haven't bothered as I've been so pleased with the Nationwide and I get all my UK clients to pay me by BACS.[/QUOTE]

We are planning on being in Italy full time by this time next year . I am confused by our time line. I think it's a good idea to rent and check out our options before we buy. When and how do I line up our rental? We will be in Itlay in the Fall and probably in December. Do I just look around to see what I can find with the locals and make arrangement then or should I be dealing with an agent now. We want a indepdent house with privacy, the coutry side is fine as long as it's close to a town. I'm thinking Umbria but not in a frigid area.
Any suggestions welcomed.
Jane

[QUOTE=arty]We are two guys in our mid 40's living in Brighton, UK planning to relocate to Italy within next 4 years.
Undecided about town/village or country location.
Would love to hear about others experiences (the good and the bad) and welcome any contacts.

Robert[/QUOTE]

Not sure where this belongs on the forum, if at all, and it is a bit long, however, it is hoped that there are other positive experiences out there. Our own experience in purchasing property in Italy begs the question; “are we just lucky, or what?”

After 35+ years experience as a real estate broker/investor in California and Hawaii, there is not much in the realm of real estate ethics, or lack thereof, that I have not seen or experienced. From reading this forum, the impression is that there are similarities between the real estate sharks in these waters and those in the Pacific.

One would surmise that any real estate agency here catering to and/or seeking business from, English speaking folks would have at least one staff member proficient in the language if they are serious about attracting this element of the market. The use of middlepersons, buyer’s representative, or the like, does not appear to be a panacea for many of the various difficulties outlined on this forum. To paint with the narrower of brushes, our own interviews of “middlepersons” left a lot to be desired and we have dealt directly with real estate agencies, contractors, plumbers, etc. One of us is fluent in the language, an obvious benefit.

The agency we chose for the purchase of a property consists of the owner/broker who is also a licensed attorney, one agent completely fluent in the English language, and another agent extremely knowledgeable about the market, remodeling, restoration, etc. Working as a team, they made our buying experience an enjoyable and successful one as evidenced by the following recitation of events.

After locating a suitable property, and making an accepted offer, we returned to Austria to await notification when we could close the transaction and take possession of the property. We received an E-mail, which, in our anxiety, we misread as to the date of final transaction, which was to be February 8. This was on January 24, and all we saw was the word “Wednesday,” so we loaded the car, including frozen foods, and arrived at the agency on Tuesday afternoon, albeit two weeks early.
The agency immediately went into action resulting in our being able to unload the car at the house and put the frozen stuff in the freezer. The next morning, in the midst of the big snowstorm, which caused cancellations at the Notary’s office, we were able to finalize the transaction and occupy the house that night. We had electricity, water and land-line telephone the first night, and the second day, the gas man showed up in knee deep snow to turn on the gas giving us hot water and heat other than from the wood burning forno. All of this two weeks ahead of schedule.

We were guided to the Italy Magazine Forum resulting in our attendance at a luncheon four days later where we met a wonderful group of people, most of whom are from GB and enjoying the Italian lifestyle, in one form or another. We met one couple who live close-by, one being native to the area, who put us in contact with locals in the building trades, all of whom are licensed, reliable, competent, honest, efficient, etc.

Please excuse the length, however, maybe there are others out there who have had similar pleasant experiences.
So, “are we just lucky, or what???”

We also have no complaints -we had a difficult sale. The notaio was great looked out for our interests regarding unpaid taxes from the vendors and also di soem tidying up of the plot numbers. Geometra who represented us at the sale - came back sorted out our elec, gas, water and took our registration forms into the commune. The vendors had cleaned the house, so that we could sleep on our first night. The Geometra came back the next day to check we were ok and has kept an eye on the house over the winter. He also told us 2 months later that he had paid the initial fee to change over the elec account!

The postman who came to say hello and welcome to your new home and asked us what should he do with our post when we are not at the house.

Then we have our commercialista who completed our ICI and advised us that we do not need to pay ruffuti taxes as yet. The bank cashier who calls from Italy to tell us that our account is open and when is it convenient for us to come, so that she can be on duty to help as we are learning italian.

We have no complaints.

have you thought about Piemonte instead, as you are not looking for a seaside location?

Paola

Hi Daniela
Many thanks for responding to my post. Would be really grateful to know the agent you recommend.... my email is [email]arty_fish@hotmail.com[/email] ...... first trip this year is planned for late April early May.
Best wishes
Robert

[QUOTE=Philippa Jay]Hi
Take a look at the Sabina area-- in particular Lago del Turano. All the advantages of the coast without the crowds-- swimming, boating,fishimg etc etc. Sublime. Spectaular Lake and mountain views, sleepy medieval villages with fantastic restaurants. No english spoken.
We got our house through [url]www.caseinsabina.com[/url] in particular-- Valleverde.
Good luck PJ[/QUOTE]

I was interested to see your post because one of the first houses I saw when searching for something near Rome and lakes, was Lago del Turano in a residence which may well have been Valle Verde. It was being sold privately and I went with a friend to see it one day in winter. I was overjoyed and couldn't believe how cheap it was for a lovely new property. However, my Italian friend saw another family at their house a couple of streets down and asked them loads of questions. It turned out that the place was so cheap because the annual charges for the complex were so high and one couldn't be sure from year to year how much these costs would be. It was very disappointing, but I was glad to find out sooner rather than later. I would be interested to know if we are talking about the same residence and if indeed you find that the annual charges are high? It may of course have changed by now as this was a good few years ago.

You could go a bit further south to calabria. I have a house in a little mountain village with views of the sea. Property is extremely cheap as the locals are moving down to the sea to live and work though there is a nice small community left. 10 mins to a market town. My house has 4 huge rooms and 2 attic bedrooms aswell as terrace and balcony. You can rent it if you want and go and suss out the area. 4 and half hour drive to naples. Nearer to Lamezia.
Regards
Carolyn