Calculating ICI

06/07/2009 - 20:53

I received notification for the payment of our ICI for 2009 and visited my local municipio to have the ICI calculated first before paying the amount at the post office. However the clerk I spoke to told me that in future I should see an accountant and pay him to calculate what amount I owe (based on the 'Aliquote' and 'detrazioni' del comune). Can someone confirm if what the clerk informed me is true or is she telling porkies? I pointed out to her that I'm not in Italy as a resident and therefore it would be difficult to get hold of an accountant when we are only over for a short while. I've noticed that I can I calculate the amount owed by using the SOGET website 'Modulo Calcolo ICI'. Alternatively will one of the 'sportelli' SOGET in the province of Teramo be able to calculate the amount for me and take my payment too?Much appreciated.

Topic

Location

Comment

Previously we used a Commercialista to calculate our ICI -they charged us €30 each but we did use the SOGET website and the calculations came out the same. As it was our first time, we wanted to make sure we got it right, but our understanding is that the ICI has been abolished. Are we right or are we being misinformed?

ICI has only been abolished for your "prima casa" and place of residence in Italy, providing it is not a "luxury property". For those of us who only have a holiday home, we still have to pay it and it is more of a nuisance because councils do not send us statements with instruction regarding how much and where (I think it is the post office) to pay.We have made arrangements with a commercialista and our bank so that they take care of that on our behalf. I think that it costed us about 100 euros the first time to get it all organised and then about 25 yearly. It simply gives us peace of mind.

Thanks Gala for clarification - That makes sense now!

We were told last year that we didn't have to pay our ICI as we only had the one house in Italy. We do not live there full timebut it is not a 'luxury property". How do we find out whether we should pay or not this year? Would they send a reminder?The local commune have done in the past but nothing last year. Visits to the commune offices are a bit of a nightmare as nobody speaks English and our Italian is not good!

In simplistic terms - if you are not 'resident' in Italy, [lots of paperwork, and you have to live there for the majority of the year], you should pay ICI on the house .

You can pay the ICI on line at http://equitaliasestri.pagonet.it/pagonet/bollettino_versamento.asp there isn’t an English version, but if your local ICI rate is unchanged from last year, [apparently mine is], you can just copy what you wrote last year and pay with the credit card/ You can find out your ICI rate by visiting your Commune's website and looking for "Tariffe / Aliquote ICI" [at least - you can on mine - and so I've showed it as a link so you can see the sort of info I get when I go into my local site] .

We have a house in the commune of Licciana - in the hills of Lunigiana. In many ways, the commune are still in the 1950s. However, all I do is go into the municipio with my property details and last year's ICI documents and they work out what I owe, produce a bill and I pay it with my credit card there in the office. I go twice a year, April and October. It has been €287 for the last three years now. Though I never like paying it, at least the process is painless - other than it takes about 15 minutes as they use mechanical adding machines with long handles on the side that you pull. They then print out your bill on a computer. Could only happen in Italy.

If you go to your local INAC offic ethey will do it all for you for free, as long as you have the details of your property (plan and area details) they then keep your dteails on file ready for the next year when you just go along and pay. If it is your Prima Casa then no charge but you will be charged if you own land elsewhere unless it's for storage for your house.But beware they will try to charge you extra if your land can be built on; whether or not it's feasable i.e. strip of land 3m x 10m.

Gromit - could you explain what INAC stands for please. I have googled it but it only came up with ENAC - italian aviation sites. Thanks.

HI getsett.http://www.inac-cia.it/inac/ If you follow the link that will get you to their web site. Basically they are an organisation that help people to deal with Comune based enquiries, and will help and advise you about what things you need to pay and how. I think; well that's what they did for us, a bit like a Citizens Advice.

Thanks for the info - I am having a battle with the comune as I have been sent a "violation" notice for 2000 but I have paid it. already. Finally I have got the comune to cancel the "charge" for me and I hope they have told the collectors, Equitalia. It took 4 Faxes including copies of the receipts of payment by me and my husband and several emails and phone calls - all from the UK. However, my husband is not so lucky - as his violation notice was sent elsewhere - but we don't know where - we cannot get the charge cancelled as we do not have a copy of the cartella in his name - even though I have provided the comune with the ref number, kindly given to me by Equitalia. They were much more helpful than the comune but cannot cancel the charge without instruction from the comune. I am going round and round in circles. I am writing this listening to Magic Radio and - ironically the song they are playing is - Have a little patience!!I used to work in local government in a reasonable sized UK city and if we had behaved in the way that the official at our local (tiny) comune has acted there would have been repurcussions and not good ones. Having got that off my chest, and also having fired off an email back to the comune, I am feeling better.

Welcome to Italy ; the home of Red Tape and Jumped up Comune Officials. Just stick with it and make a nuisance of yourself, that appears to work. Good Luck

I cannot believe it. I took your advice Gromit to be a nuisance and it worked. I spoke to Equitalia again yesterday and they told me that the comune should not need the cartella to annul my husband's violation. I conveyed this by email to the comune and have just received a reply from the comune starting "Ci scusiamo" and they are going to annul both violations. The moral is be persistent and eventually it pays off.

I agree with alan h. If you are not a permanent resident you have to pay ICI. If you have problems dealing with the Comune in Italian, perhaps you could find a local "commercialista" who could help.

Thank you and Alan H for confirming what we suspected. Our problem now is that we are in England and our friends who live in the area of our house in Italy have gone quiet since we asked for their help with payment of our ICI!! I have checked the rates and they haven't changed since the last time we paid so we know the amount due and I tried the payment on line site but the area seems to be restricted. Perhaps we could find a local commercialista with a web site and do it that way? I wish we could set up a standing order through the bank and then there wouldn't be this worry every June.

Post Deleted - Repetition of first post [I really must learn to read what I post ed previously] But suprised that the site was locked to you - no lock when I go to it [is your 'pop-up blocker' messing your attempts up?] .

Regarding setting up a Standing Order; I don't think you can for Comune Bills which include ICI and Rubbish Tax. Our Bank (Banca di Roma) say that you have to pay in person at a Post Office, which our neighbours have confirmed, hence the emormous queues at the Post Office over the past few days.Anyway your late now as they are due by 16th June so a fine may be payable; you will have to check how accomodating your Comune are to your plight....Good Luck

Glad it worked...told you.Most Comunes are staffed by jobsworths and they like to create a fuss not be at the recieving end.; also asking to speak to 'someone in authority' usually gets a result. I know it's a generalisation but that is the norm in my experience and also the advice given by ones who know how the system works.It's who you know not what you know that cuts the mustard here.

Our commune does not have a complaints procedure like the UK, but I have found that the "Sindaco" Mayor has some public sessions available each week. Nothing like getting to the "chief honcho" himself/herself. This individual is even more attentive and vulnerable near election time. I have used this route to good effect to get major things done!I have also found that a "coping strategy" for most situations is a must to relieve stress. Part of my "coping strategy" for living in any bureaucratic community, particularly Italy, is to cultivate contacts. It is not often what you know or what you are entitled to that matters, it is who you know. Social networking helped me settled in the UK and is helping me now in Italy.Italy has been described as a bureaucratic country. True, its is a bit like the UK 30 years ago! Bureaucracy in an organisation is synonymous with discipline, not many of us like it! Anyboby who has read the UK Civil Service Accounting Manual, I came across it doing some charity work for Save the Children Fund in Uganda, will have found the mother of all bureaucratic documents! Yet it worked, because staff were fully trained in its application. All UK government and quasi government organisations have rules in the form of standing orders and accounting procedures. Even my social club has one a book of rules! The opposite of bureucracy is "laissez faire", which means fraud etc. I suspect in Italy there is lack of training and add this to a culture that says that the client is here for the benefit of the professional, the government official, the doctor or anybody in authority and not the other way round then the result is obvious, frustration for the customer. The professional/client relationship is epitomised by the fact that one has to call a professional by what she/he does eg achitect so and so, engineer so and so. There is nothing wrong with that. As immigrants, we need to understand how this impact on us as customers! We cannot fight it we need to anticipate it and make it work for us. I have seen Italians get round the bureaucracy with flattery and patronage (back to my second paragragh). In the UK I have always wondered why there is a need for a complaints department: now going under the name of customers services. I suspect a lot of the problem that customers and clients find in the UK comes from the fact that the rules have not been applied properly. Anyway when in Rome!

Can anyone tell me if ICI is calculated (and payable) per person or per property. In other words is there one calculation for the house or is it a personal obligation for me and another for my husband? It depends who owns the property - its usually the two of you, so you both pay half. I had the ownership registered to me alone - makes ICI and selling easier.