8705 Setting Up a Business

Best piece of advice I can give you is... get yourself a really good commercialista who will listen to you, give lots of advice and handholding, effectively tax plan for you and take care of most of the bookkeeping, not just handle your returns for you.

Shop around, speak to a few first before you decide and make sure it's someone you think you can get on with in the long run. Let the commercialista set up the company for you, and before you do go through everything you plan to do within the company in detail beforehand, as if you set up a company such as an snc, sas or srl, it will be expensive to rectify any mistakes. Don't try to handle things yourself, a good commercialista is so much more than an accountant and worth every penny.

I absolutely agree with Garda Homes. Find a commercialista who is on side and you get on well with long term.
As with all Italian bureaucracy, business law and taxes are a minefield, not helped by the fact that they are ever changing or are introduced but never legally implemented. This makes it essential to have expert up to date advice - there is no way in the world you could do it on your own. In the time it took me to set up business the rules changed 3 times! At one point I was expected to complete a form that had been announced but not actually released into the public domain! Even with the expert help of my commercialista it took a bit of doing - without her it would have been impossible!

I actually havent set up a business in Italy but I have come across those who've done so and my impressions are that if you have an idea for a business first make sure that there will be sufficient demand.You may well not make a profit until the second year so will need an income to last at least 2 years not derided from the business.

B&Bs are popular businesses to run as bigger homes are available to buy for reasonable costs and in Abruzzo there are tax breaks for small operations.The problem is that tourism here is limited to the coast and the ski resorts.Italians as a whole do not do the b&B thing in the country as we brits do.Other nationalities will be the main hope but very few tourists come to Abruzzo.In my view the blame for this is with the regional tourist organisation.They simply are not promoting Abruzzo enough. At Pescara airport the office is hardly ever open and a 'booth' simply stocks leaflets and flyers for hotels by the sea in Pescara!Go and stay in a b&b and talk to the owners.

Other businesses that may be successful in the UK may fail in Italy simply because of cultural differences.For instance a mobile hairdresser in the UK can charge anything up to £12 for a cut as salons are so expensive but in Italy women prefer to visit a salon and the cost is very reasonable.So not much demand.

I would be very interested to know the views of other's on what business ideas they've considered for Italy.

My own ideas based on Abruzzo would be:

Estate Agent!!!

Geometra!!!!

Lawyer!!!

More seriously:

Gardening and maintainence as more Italians seem to want to 'improve' the areas around their properties.Good gardeners are hard to find and lots of second home owners need them.

Nursery growing succulents/grasses/palms/herbaceous plants etc.Selling from home/market stall.

Fenching/ panels/ gates there's non-one making these and the ones in Castorama are boring.We have a huge choice in the uk.

Translation services/teaching English to business people

Ideally the business you run would not rely on local markets at all !

[QUOTE=manopello;81727]I actually havent set up a business in Italy but I have come across those who've done so and my impressions are that if you have an idea for a business first make sure that there will be sufficient demand.You may well not make a profit until the second year so will need an income to last at least 2 years not derided from the business.

B&Bs are popular businesses to run as bigger homes are available to buy for reasonable costs and in Abruzzo there are tax breaks for small operations.The problem is that tourism here is limited to the coast and the ski resorts.Italians as a whole do not do the b&B thing in the country as we brits do.Other nationalities will be the main hope but very few tourists come to Abruzzo.In my view the blame for this is with the regional tourist organisation.They simply are not promoting Abruzzo enough. At Pescara airport the office is hardly ever open and a 'booth' simply stocks leaflets and flyers for hotels by the sea in Pescara!Go and stay in a b&b and talk to the owners.

Other businesses that may be successful in the UK may fail in Italy simply because of cultural differences.For instance a mobile hairdresser in the UK can charge anything up to £12 for a cut as salons are so expensive but in Italy women prefer to visit a salon and the cost is very reasonable.So not much demand.

I would be very interested to know the views of other's on what business ideas they've considered for Italy.

I have three businesses here.It's a lot of work, a load of paper work and as has been said a veritable minefield as shifting legislation keeps one "on the edge" permanently.One of the biggest differences fiscally compared to say the U.K. is the sizeable amount of income which goes to what you would probably call ssnn payments this is NOT taxation (which according to your income level be more or less comparable with the UK) These are levied usually on a quartely basis from day 1. whether or not you earn or have earned anything,these payments concern essentially pensions etc even though at the end (depending on your "category" of work) you might get a fairly miserable small pension..the idea is that in the meantime you pay for everyone else's pension!As far as what one can do thats a bit like how long is a piece of string one could do almost anything obviously as in any country various activities will require greater or lesser investments.
Someone mentioned garden maintenance.Well unless one wanted to remain a jobbing gardener for life it could still require serious investmentlike for example;
purchasing 1-2 trucks
gang mowers
maybe a small excavator
various garden equipment
to get beyond "the jobbing gardener syndrome" you'd probably have to recruit at least a couple of decent rumanians/albanese etc otherwise you could only do one small job at a time and if you tried to do it in an official manner ie. vat bills etc the same brits that might use you wouldn't cos they'd get it cheaper from some free lance unregularized worker.
that was just a small example and of course different people will think differently but if one wants to talk about a business thats one thing to talk about some more or less survival occupation is something else.
b&b outside of big tourist places like roma firenze etc is hardly a survival business and is unlikely to ever be more than that.remember that under italian law b&b's are NOT allowed to provide alcoholic drinks or meals with the exception of breakfasts which must be composed of entirely pre packed labelled industrial food in that they do not have the health /safety requisites to provide/cook food for their guests..just another example.
in any case you're welcome to pm me if you have some particular idea you're thinking of taking up.
good luck

.

I would add to Becky's list, - handyman/kitchen fitter for kitchens bought in IKEA, architectural salvage, - new wooden doors being extremely expensive, regional guides and of course teaching English. I have found many many Italians in my Abruzzo town wanting to speak English with me (frustrating for me as I want to converse in Italian) but limited to Good Afternoon" or "How are you"

Most of the lists sound like handyman/helper type jobs. Take advantage of your strengths. No point offering gardening to the locals who can choose from any of several other locals. Offer your services to other expats. Push your ability to deal with the local issues while they are away.

On the point of not making money for years. Pretty normal isn't it? You put out money to buy/rent equipment. Produce and print flyers etc. Get your approvals. All this before one cent has entered your hands. Just hope your first customer pays :wideeyed:

On the issue of tourists. Lots of people own second homes in places like Abruzzo. Germans etc. So the tourists aren't really looking at B&Bs.

I know this is stating the obvious but unless you are extremely fluent in Italian then the "menial" jobs/businesses on the lists are the only ones a "foreigner" is equipped to do and on the whole customers would be fellow British.

Pas 55 I see is in South East Sardinia. I don't know if at the moment this is a permanent home or whether he is fluent in Italian. South East Sardinia is a different ball game compared to Abruzzo. There are few tourists or British people with second homes there.

Sorry to ask you PAS 55, your homepage is showing EASYMIUS (obtained a lovely picture of Punta Molentis as my desktop background) is this your business?

[quote=jojo;81760]Sorry to ask you PAS 55, your homepage is showing EASYMIUS (obtained a lovely picture of Punta Molentis as my desktop background) is this your business?[/quote]

No it's not just one of the beaches close to us.I put the link there just so people could see the area.Where abouts areyou?

We are just outside san priamo (on the way to Muravera) and discovered this beach a few weeks ago when we were there and were really impressed with it.

Going back to the mobile hairdressers- if there are any British trained hairdressers in the South Marche area I would suggest doing this I could probably get you 10 clients immediately- after 2 botched haircuts (one of which was branded the worst they had ever seen by the entire staff of Toni & Guy at Bluewater) my nerves will no longer take trips to Italian hairdressers. In every other way I am integrated but hair is on show far too much to have a Rod Stewart mullet on my head!

[quote=HelenMW;81792]Going back to the mobile hairdressers- if there are any British trained hairdressers in the South Marche area I would suggest doing this I could probably get you 10 clients immediately- after 2 botched haircuts (one of which was branded the worst they had ever seen by the entire staff of Toni & Guy at Bluewater) my nerves will no longer take trips to Italian hairdressers. In every other way I am integrated but hair is on show far too much to have a Rod Stewart mullet on my head![/quote]

A hairdresser once told me mobile hairdressers aren't permitted in Italy, for health and safety reasons. Anyone know if that's true?

[quote=gardahomes;81800]A hairdresser once told me mobile hairdressers aren't permitted in Italy, for health and safety reasons. Anyone know if that's true?[/quote]

One of our local salon based hairdressers does go to peoples homes to do their hair. Mainly those who cannot get to the salon for health reasons. How official or inofficial it is I don't know. It is only a tiny part of his business so perhaps he can do it because he also has the salon?

[quote=HelenMW;81792]- after 2 botched haircuts [/quote]

I can sympathise - I always used to think one of the worst things about moving to a new area was finding a decent hairdresser and dentist! This is just as true in the UK as in Italy. I have to say I have always been extremely pleased with any Italian hairdressers I have used. I always ask around for recommendations from Italian friends my own age whose hair style I like and then use the most recommended - so far so good and this ploy has always worked!

I have posted on this before, But I have an English trained hairdresser living in S Marche who is very good and would be only too happy to be of assistance. Please pm for details.
A

Hi Paul,

I have not set up a business as such but am deemed self employed (I work for UK financial company who could not set me up PAYE as I live permanently in Italy and regulation would have been a nightmare). My saviour has been Marco, who knew before the tax office, of the new legislation of last month where you do not have to charge 20% VAT if under €30k income. He actually showed the "expert" in the tax office where on the website to find the second part of the legislation just passed. Marco took me to get my VAT number (still need number) and to the contribution office and to a pension adviser. Marco has already given me much information and help and he will do everything in the way of returns etc for a one off annual amount (so no scary bills). My point is, as others have said, the right person helping is essential. I was very fortunate to meet Marco as he is a very highly qualified taxation expert, not just your normal commercialista - also he does not charge silly money. My Italian is not yet fluent so his speaking English was also essential. I am sure he would be happy to take on other clients if you are interested. Good luck with your venture.

Hi Karen
Where is Marco situated please.
A

[quote=jojo;81778]We are just outside san priamo (on the way to Muravera) and discovered this beach a few weeks ago when we were there and were really impressed with it.[/quote]

Yes I know where you are,what a lovely place to live!!

Yes we are very fortunate, we live in an established street where there were only a few homes but now just in the last year 7 houses/apartments have now been built ready to go onto the market, but it is still quite peaceful. We have also met up with 5 other english/welsh families who have set up home around that area,due in fact to a sard who had worked in the north of england and then returned back to his home of San Vito and has set up two factories there manufacturing parts of car engines( even supplying ferrari allegedly) and asthma pumps, so has done very well for himself courtesy of some huge grants no doubt.

do the ferrari engines eventually require to have the asthma pumps retro-fitted when their performance starts failing to meet aspirations?

Ha ha found that quite funny.

But it is a very strange and diverse two businesses to have control of. I know I would get very confused indeed

Many thanks to all those who have posted.Good advice.

Marco has a home in Ripatransone (Ascoli Piceno) and Milan but travels widely for his work.

Hello,
Just wanted to say seems like alot of people wanting to comment, but none who have actually set up and started a business. Why not contact this woman . She has started her own business doing organic childrens clothing in Le Marche. As she has been open since June last year I'm sure she could give you some real advice and not heresay. Her website is
[url=http://www.mariasorganicbabies.com]Marias Organic Babies[/url]

[quote=il cacciatore;82132]Hello,
Just wanted to say seems like alot of people wanting to comment, but none who have actually set up and started a business. [/quote]

bit unfair on Sebastiano ("I have three businesses here ") and possibly others?

Perhaps not appropriate in the OP's case, but an alternative if you are seting up an agricultural based business (wine, fruit, olives, nuts etc) and other initiatives around a farm then also remember that there are very good agricutural unions (Coldiretti are the biggest I beleive) who undertake all of the functions of a commercialista as well as their (in theory) expertise in agriculture and its beuracracy.

Hello PAS 55,

I can't agree more with the 'get a good commercialista' advice. My girlfriend and I wasted literally about two months of our lives trying to set up a branch of a UK Ltd company...

Some of the episodes we endured really would have to be seen to be believed. We were often treated like complete morons for asking questions of the agencies who are supposed to be there to advise the public.

(There was one particular young lady in the Agenzia delle Entrate who, every time we asked a question, would pull a face as though we had just vomited on her desk, then flick rapidly through her little book of regulations, fail to find the answer and call a colleague somewhere who was fairly switched on. [On one occasion she greeted this colleague with 'Ciao è ****, sono ancora qui con queste roba...'!] Then we would ask another question and she would repeat the process, every time appearing more infuriated that we were interrupting her day. She also tried to make out that we were the stupid ones, for not being clear about what we wanted to do. On the contrary, we explained axactly what we wanted to do, we wanted to know exactly how to do it... Grrrrrhhhhh!)

Anyway, in the end we found a really good Commercialista/Avvocato, who after about an hour had solved all our problems and organised the setting up of our business. We really couldn't believe it could be so easy after all our experiences as above. Now, the Italian side of our business is much easier to manage in terms of accounts etc, than the UK side.

Worth every penny, without a doubt.

Buona fortuna!

Yes, ihave started a small retail shop here in italy.

unfortunately mine has not worked out due to the biggest gamble of all , demand.

anyway, as for starting a business, it will take longer than expected. there will be many days of extreme frustration, after almost six months of renting shop I have opened and now trying to close shop and have still failed to get a water contract started !

Be aware that even if you lose money INPS ( pension payments ) are still due at at least euros 225 per month from date of application to open, i.e before actual opening. I only opened shop in november 2007, for 2007 I must pay euros 890 for sept ,oct, nov,dec. even though have made losses.

If importing goods into italy aswell as iva to pay there is an administrative charge for form filling by accountant.
be aware that cash registers are a must for commercial activity and are not cheap as in uk. also must be fully registered and complete with targa.

unpaid help is not allowed, and if declared requires more forms and insurances to be paid.

Italian business start up funding !. I managed to on paper be entitled to funding from my region amounting to about euros 8000. Only problem is that after a huge amount of effort on my part have now been told that they have run out of funding for this year,oh well at least my nicely presented and stamped letters from them will make nice wall pictures.

every time you want the comune to do something you will have to pay a bollo and everything you send anywhere will have to be sent recorded delivery, all these costs add up. I missed out on another form of funding because I sent the letter, after many hours of work, by the wrong type of recorded delivery and even thougth by phone they acknowledged delivery of documents said I had to start again because of wrong post !, I gave up at that point.

The good news is that starting a business is the best way to lean the language, even though a very expensive way.

Just remember that the best way to deal with an itch is scratch it, same with wish to start a business, you just have to try but be careful and resilient.

Steve

Steve,
Thanks for that.Funny enough it's a shop that I'm thinking of.I've been in retail in the Uk for over 30 years so,I'd like to think 'I know what I'm doing'

So sorry to hear about your bad experience, Steve. I think that we all thought that you were very brave trying to start a business and fighting against all the red tape. It is a pity that it did not work but something else may come up in the future. Best wishes.

another thing we find is missing in Italy, is entertainment for children on raining days. What do you do with your children when you can't go on the beach or run in the countryside? maybe somebody have some ideas...

Oh Steve, my sympathies: just reading sapped my strength.

What I don't understand is the rationale behind some of these arcane regulations? I mean, type of post?!! Why not let people deliver by hand if they wish, or don't they trust people and think that will open up opportunities for fraud?

Anyway, my idea for a service which is certainly needed, even if it wouldn't be used as much as it should, is a late night, get-you-home taxi-service. There's an appalling carnage on the roads here from drunk-driving, just as in Britain 20/30 years ago. In my little city/town which is also a centre for the area there is little or no provision for late night taxi-services, mini-vans to the out-of-town disco and so forth. A related idea is a driver with micro-bike which folds up and goes in your boot. You have too much to drink, phone them up, they drive you home (with bike in boot) so that your car is there in the morning , reassemble, and pootle off to the next job. When I last visited Mum in the UK a town pub had advertising up which also quoted rates to sample local towns/villages to give an idea how reasonable it was.

Might get support from local regione, commune, ACI: free advertising in their mag perhaps as they always seem to have articles about accidents and drunk driving, and you might even get the carabinieri on-side. A well-publicised drunk-driving blitz along with word-of-mouth would give a great boost to business!