8725 Hamilton's Family

I'm sure you'll have seen the four low-life thugs, wearing black make-up and T-shirts reading 'Hamilton's Family'.

Their audacity can only be described as disgraceful and the racist abuse suffered by Lewis Hamilton at a Barcelona racetrack should not and cannot be tolerated.

The motorsport’s governing body, FIA, said it was “surprised and disappointed" at the abuse handed out to the British racing driver. "An act of this kind is a clear breach of the principles enshrined in the FIA statutes, and any [B][I][U]repetition[/U][/I][/B] will result in sanctions,” it added.

Hollow words, I'm afraid. Why wait? FIA should impose the sanctions now. Spain should not be allowed to stage the two F1 races (The Spanish GP & The European GP) scheduled for2008.

Racist behaviour at sporting events is becoming all too frequent in Spain. Well, with such pathetic fines like the ones below, are they really going to put a stop to such high-profile incidents.

In 2006 the Spanish Football Federation fined Real Zaragoza £6,000 after large sections of their crowd subjected Barcelona striker Samuel Eto'o to a torrent of racist abuse.

Again in 2006, Zaragoza's goalkeeper, Carlos Kameni, claims he was abused by his own supporters. In October 2004, Spain coach Luis Aragones was filmed calling Thierry Henry "that black s**t" in a conversation with Jose Antonio Reyes and escaped with a £2,000 fine.

England's black players were on the receiving end of monkey chants when they played Spain in a friendly in November 2004, and Real Madrid's Roberto Carlos suffered similar treatment a month later in the Madrid derby.

Fifa only fined the Spanish authorities £44,750 after the England friendly.

Despite the perception abroad that Spain suffers from a serious problem with racism, the Spanish Government insists that there is little cause for concern.

Category

Sports

I agree that this was incredible and unforgiveable. But it seems to me that 'racism' is, unfortunatley, becoming more and more acceptable these days and is often a cause of great satisfaction to groups who participate in such behaviur.

It isn't confined to high profile venues any more, it can be found almost anywhere. There really does need to be some [I]suitable and timely recourse[/I] via the laws of every country to deal with such people.

[quote]Their audacity can only be described as disgraceful and the racist abuse suffered by Lewis Hamilton at a Barcelona racetrack should not and cannot be tolerated.[/quote] This is so true, but we can find carbon copies of these four low-life thugs in even the most unexpected places. But alas their tendency to [I]enjoy and flaunt[/I] such disgusting behaviour is often - as in Barcelona - applauded by others!

Like you, I do hope that [I]anyone[/I] who chooses to follow such a line or condone such behaviour, will get their due rewards - and sooner rather than later!

[QUOTE=Carole B;81928]I agree that this was incredible and unforgiveable. But it seems to me that 'racism' is, unfortunatley, becoming more and more acceptable these days and is often a cause of great satisfaction to groups who participate in such behaviur.

QUOTE]

I'm afraid I disagree that racism is becoming more acceptable, I don’t think we would be discussing it here if it was.

While it is necessary for official bodies and governments to act against such behaviour the best deterrent is the disgust and condemnation of other fans. If the four racist idiots found themselves booed, shunned and derided for their behaviour, it would be better than fining the Spanish team.

[quote=Nielo;81931] If the four racist idiots found themselves booed, shunned and derided for their behaviour, it would be better than fining the Spanish team.[/quote]

I couldn't agree any more.

I'm not saying we should fine the Spanish Team, far from it.

It's the two FI races which are scheduled for Spain in 2008. FIA could teach the racist element in Spain two lessons where it would hurt the most:

(a) Fiscally, by moving the races to a different venue. There's a lot of countries out there who would love to host a F1 race, let alone two.

(b) By doing the above, the Spaniards would miss out on cheering Alonso on his home track. This surely would make it a certainty that thugs would be shunned and derided if they did it again.

[quote=numerouno;81958]I couldn't agree any more.

I'm not saying we should fine the Spanish Team, far from it.

It's the two FI races which are scheduled for Spain in 2008. FIA could teach the racist element in Spain two lessons where it would hurt the most:

(a) Fiscally, by moving the races to a different venue. There's a lot of countries out there who would love to host a F1 race, let alone two.

(b) By doing the above, the Spaniards would miss out on cheering Alonso on his home track. This surely would make it a certainty that thugs would be shunned and derided if they did it again.

#1[/quote]

What planet are you on !!!!!!!!!!!!

Firstly you want to punish the whole nation for 4 fools! well lets apply that over here and we can forget the football season and the olympics.

Infact if we apply your logic to all sporting events, then the african cup should be stopped now,indeed almost every sporting event would suffer because of a very small minority of pratts.

And back to the F1, clearly it must be a mickey mouse sport if you believe at this late stage,they could change the calender for not one but two races!!!!!

I tell you what does get my goat though is this type of over exposure and exaggeration, which in itself could be deemed racist,when you believe that this type of punishment somehow fits this little punny action.[i was going to say crime,but then i thought is it a crime? well its not murder is it!]

If you do want to scream racist why not start by stopping using all american brands of goods, afterall their KKK has far more to answer for than 4 stupid pratts! so using your logic should not the whole of the USA be punnushed as well...!

I think its time for a reality check..........

[quote]Despite the perception abroad that Spain suffers from a serious problem with racism, the Spanish Government insists that there is little cause for concern.
[/quote]

Yes i hear that there is an influx every summer of drunken yobs,who seem to bring this problem with them.
Slips my mind where these drunken yobs come from!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So you mention 3 sporting based examples as proof of the fact spain almost certainly has a real problem with racism! 3 examples from a country of 40 million !

Your stats are based on clearly better info than the spanish have!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I here since ron atkinson let that little bloomer pass through his lips that football comentators are reminded of this fact regular.

Why not help clean our own back yard first, before telling the rest of the world how to clean theres up.....

I fail to see what the antics of Spanish people being rude to an English driver of an English/German car - mainly because said English driver is (perceived by Spaniards) as having been favoured over a Spanish driver who is now driving for a French team has anything whatever to do with Italy.

Enlighten me? Forza Ferrari!

The sport section can get a bit global.

[quote=giovanni;81982]What planet are you on !!!!!!!!!!!!

[COLOR="Blue"]First of all, if you think I hail from outer-space, then you certainly appear to have been bred on a Happy Farm, my dear fellow.[/COLOR]

Firstly you want to punish the whole nation for 4 fools! well lets apply that over here and we can forget the football season and the olympics.

[COLOR="Blue"]As far as I’m concerned, the 4 fools, as you prefer to call them, are 4 too many. For you information there were quite a few of them with other banners. One of the banners read “Hamilton has a big mouth”.

To give you the benefit of doubt, let’s say they meant ‘loud mouth’. Now you, the Mr Know-it-all of F1, know that the Great Schumacher had the loudest mouth whilst he was re-writing all the record books in F1. I never saw any Spaniard saying so.

BTW, I am full of admiration for Schumacher.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Blue"]If you were to read the history of Spain just after the Moors were defeated, you’ll understand why the behaviour of your ‘4 fools’ leaves a sour taste in people’s mouths.[/COLOR]

Infact if we apply your logic to all sporting events, then the african cup should be stopped now,indeed almost every sporting event would suffer because of a very small minority of pratts.

[COLOR="Blue"]To the contrary, if the sporting bodies did have the testosterone to carry out their threats, then all the sporting events would be richer, and I don’t mean fiscally.[/COLOR]

And back to the F1, clearly it must be a mickey mouse sport if you believe at this late stage,they could change the calender for not one but two races!!!!!

[COLOR="Blue"]No, I do not consider F1 to be a Mickey Mouse sport. I agree that it would be a logistics problem of gigantic proportions, but nothing is impossible. I’m sure Italy would love to hold another race. The same goes for the rest of the F1 hosting nations. [/COLOR]

[COLOR="Blue"]You seem to have completely gone off your rocker. You have every right to disagree with me, but please don’t insult YOUR OWN intelligence by describing their actions as puny. They’re anything but. If these incidents are not exposed and we hide our heads in the sand, do we still carry on calling our part of the world ‘civilized’? I don’t think so.

So you think that only ‘murder’ is a crime? And insulting one’s ethnicity is not? Then I’d hate to imagine what would happen if your 4 fools were foolish enough to dare and repeat their behaviour at the British GP.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Blue"]I started this thread to discuss racism at sporting events in Spain and you’ve introduced the USA and the KKK into the equation, by this ‘off the cuff’ remark.

I wish I had the time to offer you my response but I might say something which I may regret later so I’ll refrain from doing so.

PS: You’ve said in the past that you don’t do ‘googleing’, so I suggest you do so some other research and see how many people on this earth are boycotting goods made in the US. [/COLOR]

I think its time for a reality check..........[/quote]

[COLOR="Blue"]Yes, it’s never too late. For your 4 fools and you.[/COLOR]

[quote=giovanni;81986]Yes i hear that there is an influx every summer of drunken yobs,who seem to bring this problem with them.
Slips my mind where these drunken yobs come from!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[COLOR="Blue"]What are all these exclamation marks for? Are you angry? Are you shouting? Innuendo? We all know where these yobs come from……. Yes, the drunken yobs come from England so now its England to blame for the antecedents of your 4 fools? [/COLOR]

So you mention 3 sporting based examples as proof of the fact spain almost certainly has a real problem with racism! 3 examples from a country of 40 million !
Your stats are based on clearly better info than the spanish have!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[COLOR="Blue"]So, 3 live examples are not enough for you? How many more do you wish to see?[/COLOR]

I here since ron atkinson let that little bloomer pass through his lips that football comentators are reminded of this fact regular.

[COLOR="Blue"]And so they should be.[/COLOR]

Why not help clean our own back yard first, before telling the rest of the world how to clean theres up.....[/quote]

[COLOR="Blue"]Gio, do you really live in the UK? The UK was one of the first countries in the world to recognise that there was a problem, hence the passing of the Race Relations Act as far back as 1965.

Later, there was the Commission for Racial Equality (now part of the Commission for Equality and Human Rights) which aimed to tackle racial discrimination and promote racial equality.

Is there any other county in the EU that could say she is trying to combat racism the same way as the UK is trying? Certainly not Spain.

I have my own views, like many others, on the role of the CRE, nevertheless its there to serve a purpose.[/COLOR]

Numerouno, I am not condoning the deplorable attitude of those 4 people, but I think that this is taking the issue a bit too far and generalising too much.
I am a Spaniard and I can assure you that great efforts are made to control racism in this country. Racism exists everywhere, those in favour of it, worldwide, are only a small number; however, they always make too much noise and get noticed for it .... which is what they really want.
As for your claims about the history of Spain, it is a subject that I have read and studied quite a bit and I do not believe that what you say is totally correct. Why do you state that Spanish history after the expulsion of the Moors is full of examples of racism? Racism and bigotry existed, in all countries, well before that and I can put forward as an example the fact that the Moors called the Christians "dogs" - the actual expression was "perro infiel" - because they did not share the same religion and discriminated against them in those areas where they were in power..... So History is full of examples every time, everywhere.
Anyway, what really worries me is that we are discussing in an Italian Magazine thread something that has absolutely nothing to do with Italy... this should be an interesting topic for another Forum.

Thank you for the histort lesson, although there was no real need for it.[quote] You seem to have completely gone off your rocker. You have every right to disagree with me, but please don’t insult YOUR OWN intelligence by describing their actions as puny. They’re anything but. If these incidents are not exposed and we hide our heads in the sand, do we still carry on calling our part of the world ‘civilized’? I don’t think so.
[/quote]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sudan, rwanda, entria/etheopia, kosova,bosnia shall i go on? give it a rest will you, if you are so concerned about a little name calling then you have lost the plot!

Why not instead look to where people are actually dying because of racism!!and have died in their millions.! brecause if you were that concerned, then you would not find the time to go on about a minor incedent at a race track!

So lets talk sport shall we.

[quote]What are all these exclamation marks for? Are you angry? Are you shouting? Innuendo? We all know where these yobs come from……. Yes, the drunken yobs come from England so now its England to blame for the antecedents of your 4 fools?
[/quote]

You are amazing, you are more worried about a few banners than actual physical violence!

[quote]So you think that only ‘murder’ is a crime? And insulting one’s ethnicity is not? Then I’d hate to imagine what would happen if your 4 fools were foolish enough to dare and repeat their behaviour at the British GP.
[/quote]

More rubbish bilancia, you mean name calling is equal to physical violence!

Well from the country that passed the race relation act in 1965,comes the little ryme that was taught to most english people after that date.

"sticks and stones.........."

Funny enough as you seem to make a great play by this 1965 act,as a way of.... i don't know saying here in britain we don't wave banners like that, we are past that race thing!

Except i use far too many english based sites to believe that rubbish, day in day out one group or another is attacked for not being truely british ! be it the new influx of poles or latvians or sudanesse refugees! they always taint a few bad apples that may get into britain with the majority of good hardworking people the majority will be....

So although you can brag about being first to introduce the law, you are wrong to assume this makes everything better when so many english forum users still show their predudices against other races.

Infact, you are indeed showing this type of predudice against the spanish,who are no worse than the Italians or french! is that not r............ist! Why have you not attacked the Italians? afterall there are still a fare few out there with bigotted opinions of othe races.

What was that you said earlier "If these incidents are not exposed and we hide our heads in the sand, do we still carry on calling our part of the world ‘civilized’? I don’t think so"

You seem to be only exposing a limited amount and its only aimed at spain!

[quote]I started this thread to discuss racism at sporting events in Spain and you’ve introduced the USA and the KKK into the equation, by this ‘off the cuff’ remark.
[/quote]

What on earth has this subject to do with this site? Its an Italian site for god sake this thread has no place even being here! but if you want to talk about the incidents of december in rome, then you are welcomed to do so.

You can explain to me how that fantastic system of crowd control failed[i believe i was belittled for stating that it was only good for moving the trouble out of the publics eye/away from stadiums]

I also believe because it happened away from the stadium the media coverage was not as intense! although arrests and jail sentences were made. and physical violence did take place too, have herd nothing from you a devout follower of the club involved.!!!!!!!!

No you are busy blaming a country for a few fools by quoting century old events!!!!!.

No doubt in your mind name calling and verbal abuse takes presidence over actual physical violence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like i said "what planet are you on"

I suggest everyone goes back to their own planet, takes a chill pill and counts to one million very slowly.

[It had been quite peaceful for a while]

[quote=alan h;82206]I suggest everyone goes back to their own planet, takes a chill pill and counts to one million very slowly.

[It had been quite peaceful for a while][/quote]

So go find a suggestion box............then find something constructive to suggest!

Racism is not acceptable in any form and although this particular incident was not violent nor did it lead to loss of life, it was nevertheless fundamentally wrong.

Although some people have stated that this topic does not actively involve Italy and therefore has no place on this forum it does involve humanity so I think it is a subject worth discussing.

When I was young (oh, such a long time ago!) if someone was 'done' for drink driving it was a matter for condolence, but as time went on and the consequences became better known, it was a time to say 'You stupid b****r you could have killed someone’. Attitudes change and the world changes. It is important that attitudes decide that racist actions such as those described here are not tolerated and not allowed to gain acceptance and then escalate to nastier things.

You may not agree with the suggested sanctions but do you agree with the initial action?

[url=http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64984]autosport.com - F1 News: Analysis: racism back in Spanish sport[/url]

If you are really interested in spains problems,and as you can see numerouno they had already taken action ie laws, prior to your rebulk.!!!!!!!!!!

and as nielo rightly said, "racism is not acceptable. so heres a few more links nearer home.

So lets disciuss.....[url]http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=562[/url]

or.[url=http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/society/education/revealed+racism+in+schools/529297]Channel 4 - News - Revealed: racism in schools[/url]

Now that ones closer to home!!!

[url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/schools-told-to-root-out-institutional-racism-395476.html]Schools told to root out institutional racism - Education News, Education - Independent.co.uk[/url]

So if you are really bothered by this, then why not look closer to home first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.rather than abroad !!!

But what of our law inforcement officers, they should be able to help stamp it out, once they sort themselfs out.....[url=http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1035696_cop_racism_still_exists_in_gmp]Cop: racism still exists in GMP - News - Manchester Evening News[/url]

But then thank god we live in the UK, the leaders in anti racism, where proudly the figures are going down,no sorry they are going up..! [url=http://www.conservatives.com/tile.do?def=news.story.page&obj_id=141736]Government failing on racism and cohesion - News Story - Conservative Party[/url]

What about the workplace,[url=http://entertainment.uk.msn.com/news/article.aspx?cp-documentid=7487758]Lenny accuses TV industry of racism - Entertainment News | Breaking News | Celebrity Gossip - MSN Entertainment UK[/url]