8983 Property payment by bank transfer

the professionals on here will no doubt have more rigorous explanations of how things can & should be done, but meantime, bear in mind that the bank transfer would need to be sent from your account several days prior to signing on the dotted line in front of the notary, so that the funds had cleared into the recipients account in good time.

But until you've all signed, the vendor can still pull out if he wants, albeit with a penalty based on the size of the deposit which you may recoup (if he plays ball or you sue him). Now, that's quite unlikely to happen, but my vendor threatened to pull the plug on the deal several times on the day.

With a bank draft or cash, you at least don't end up with him not signing AND having all your cash in his account, which you then need to get back from him (rather you than me!).

In the UK, of course, the funds go via solicitors bank accounts well ahead of time so this isn't an issue. In italy, I'm not aware of that being an option.

So, now that under-declaring & cash under the table are no longer neccessary, I don't suppose the vendor would have the slightest problem if you wished to transfer the money to him electronically - as long as the notary was given evidence of the funds having been recieved. If I were you however, I'd prefer to hold onto my bank draft until the vendors paw print is there on the atto in black and white? That way, no signature, no money.

Precisely.
The advantage is being able to physically hand over the money as the signatures are being made. Legally speaking, a bank transfer is allowed, it's just the risk that stops people doing it.

I have asked several notaries if they would accept funds and transfer like the solicitors do in the UK but they all refused.

Bank drafts in Italy are neither expensive nor time-consuming. As long as the money is in your account, the bank will issue the draft in minutes as long as the bank manager is around as he will need to sign it.

The advantage of a bank draft over a personal cheque is that it is guaranteed. As a buyer I wouldn't do a bank transfer prior to completion and as a seller I wouldn't accept a personal cheque. So the bank draft is the only sensible solution for both.

Are 'bank drafts' still called assegni circolare? If so, that is what to ask for in your bank branch.

yes, assegno circolare non-trasferibile

If I remember correctly, a bank draught can be then lodged at any bank of the recipients choice. Are they then also valid outside of Italy if the vendor happens not ro have an account there? And telephone banking executed during the rogito....is this not an option?

Hi
you might want to check with the notary about this. My notary always wants the sums to be deposited in Italian account because the details of payment are now recorded in the deed, and presumably the Italian fisco might want to check the payment that took place coincides with the deed, much easier to do if the bank account is Italian.
However I don't know if this is a quirk of my notary (it's possible) or if there are any actual legal reasons for this.
So really you need to ask this advice from the only one who can give you a definitive answer - the notary you will be using.
Italian assegni circolare are valid outside of Italy I believe but they take a long time to clear (about 6 weeks).
You'd need to ask your notary if he is prepared to go the telephone bank route during the rogito (what if something goes wrong and the money doesn't go through? if there is a delay will the notary be prepared to wait? If the money doesn't go through and you need to reschedule?) This is all assuming that the telephone transfer is immediate and the seller can verify that the money is in his account, not just that the bank transfer has been ordered.
I don't understand why this would be more convenient than a draft. But if you are dead set on telephone banking, just ask your notary.

I have seen this sort of thing done: the notaio had agreed to fax the bank which was going to do the electronic transfer from buyer to seller as soon as the act was ready for signing, and then the bank faxed the notaio back saying that the transfer had been made. (The money was coming into an Italian account). It cost an arm and a leg, and the seller was not at all pleased at how much the receiving bank charged.

Thanks so much for your detailed answers. Sounds like the draft is the only way to go...hopefully not a problem for the vendor's bank. Anyway, telephone banking is the way it is done in Holland I am told and it also all happens during the one act -- signing, paying by telephone and getting the keys. But if Bank Cheques are the usual way in Italy, then they are most likely also the most efficient all round.

One thing to be aware of is that in other countries, in my experience, a bank draft is considered equivalent to a cash deposit and is immediately treated as cleared funds in your account. In Italy, a bank draft (assegno circolare) still takes time to clear. I sold my house recently, was paid with a bank draft, which took ten working days to clear.