9135 Now this IS new

For those interested in this stuff there is a social group called [URL="https://www.italymagazine.com/forums/group.php?groupid=10"]Ins and outs of buying property in italy[/URL]. I posted there on the 19th March about a new law (brand spanking new), and notaio has also posted about it on https://www.italiauncovered.com". The notary now has to include in the final deed of sale details about the state of the plumbing and electrics: if not "a norma" (up to legal standard) the buyer has to expressly accept this (such as when you buy a rustico for example). The vendor essentially has to guarantee that the wiring and plumbing complies with the certificati di conformita, which have to be attached to the deed, or the parties can expressly agree that they do not want these details included in the contract, or the buyer can waiver this "guarantee". There was a bit of panic at first when everyone thought that completion couldn't take place without the certificates, but as mentioned above the parties can choose to waiver the guarantee. It also means that included in the preliminary contract of sale now, there should be full details of the state of the plumbing and wiring. I am ploughing through the texts now and will post more info, correct or clarify later. This starts March 27th 2008.

Category
Property Sales/Rental Advice

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 03/25/2008 - 09:44

this law is somewhat debatable as regards any usefulness in respect of the non Italian buying person in my opinion...although definitely new..

when we do final acts we always get the conformity certificate should there be gas involved because for a long time now boilers have had to have this in any case...

however to actually get a certificate for the electrics...which generally do not conform to modern day standards... IE often fuses instead of circuit breakers would involve owners actually spending money... there would obviously be no use in anyone looking at it because it would be so far out of date even the most inept could see that ...

so what this new law means in my mind is that owners selling property here if anyone insists on a conformity statement is the price being raised to cover this...

in general buyers we deal with do not go for new builds... so it will involve cost... and being Italian the cost will involve profit...which means again to my mind better to agree to a non conformity and get it all done yourself.... or rely on a friend of the owners report at your own peril...

basically this seems to follow the upgrading of Italian building laws but again to my mind more of a systematic attack on avoidance of by building workers and companies on paying tax to the Italian government . a required certificate establishes proof of work done and work done then requires invoices and this is where in my opinion this law is aimed more...to grab in revenue that could or would have been avoided in the past ...where people now have to reason they would be better off having everything accounted for

so this law is good ...i would say for the future of Italy and the acceptance that is about time that work done is properly recorded ,paid for and taxed...as regards a buyer there is little use to it at all...and it will add to cost in the sense of prices if people are not clear about the opt out....

the more significant new laws to my mind are those that manopello posted on regarding alternate energy... although if berlusconi gets in for first home owners irrelevant as he is about to abolish ici anyway... but much more significant to my mind is the law grading properties and their efficiency...much as say fridges and freezers where efficiency equals value and if you can declare your house to be of a very efficient thermal nature it will add to value...however this is an old law... already applied to new builds of a certain square meters and due to be adapted to new builds in general...

again to my mind only most laws designed in Italy are aimed mainly at Italian markets... either to increase efficiency, reduce tax levels for those living and working here or to allow less well off to get on the housing ladder... and mainly to increase tax income by making avoidance less attractive...

very few laws here if any would be designed to benefit foreign buyers, the amounts are too insignificant ...and if by chance they do all well and good... i see this law as a negative in terms of costs to non Italian buyers though...

however its right to flag it up because its another part of the final act that has to be agree and signed in front of the notary... hopefully not adding to the cost...

recently was at a final act where the notary hit the sellers with a e500 euro bill for clearing up how they had inherited the property... from their parents... new laws meant that the line of succession had to be established and forms signed.... in my twisted opinion all laws bought in by prodi are designed to allow the professional castes here in Italy to earn more money and the government to gain more ax... and in general a part of the so called nanny state trying to take over all parts of Italian lifeb

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 03/25/2008 - 22:06

[quote=adriatica;85998] ... a systematic attack on avoidance by building workers and companies on paying tax to the Italian government . a required certificate establishes proof of work done [/quote]

A little tip from a former (?) innocent.

If you're getting some work done and you really do want to have a conformity certificate for it, do not pay for the completed work until the certificate is actually in your hands.

Otherwise you may be asking for it forever, unsuccessfully, until you finally accept that it just ain't gonna come!

This advice applies even when you have agreed before the work started that getting a conformity certificate is a condition of the person being given the job, even when you are very happy about the standard of the work that has been done, even when you have had a reasonable relationship with the tradesman who assures you he'll give the certificate to you 'next week', and even when you have employed him on the advice of Italian friends who had also assured you that a conformity certificate would be forthcoming.

Not that I mind any more (though I might do if it had been for gas rather than electricity).

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 03/26/2008 - 06:51

When you sell a house in France, you must present a series of certificates regarding the condition of the building.
From memory, when we sold our house we had experts preparing statements regarding wiring (that it was up to current standards), the presence (or absence) of dangerous substances such as lead and asbestos, rating of energy efficience of the building, pest control... that's all what I can remember.
I would not be surprised if this type of controls extend progressively to other EU countries and I think that it is a good idea as it gives buyers a fair idea of the condition of the building they are buying.
In Italy, we paid for an inspection from pest control experts regarding the presence (or absence) of termites or "tralli" before we proceeded to buy. We also had a geometra checking on a few things for us. I think that it was money well spent. Before that, my husband, who is an architect, inspected the property thoroughly.