9171 Any gloom in Italy?

Probably Annie, with the strength of the Euro, then people doing renovations are tightening the purse strings a little more. or holding back to see where the other currencies move.

Every Italian we know complains about the ever increasing cost of living - even the cost of basic essentials such as pasta has risen by at least 50% over the last few months alone and the cost of living has more than doubled over the 8 years we have been in Italy. Purse strings are being tightened and non-essentials are not being bought. Many factories are on short time and as wages have not risen much at all over the years (one person I know is on the same salary she received 10 years ago!) some are definitley struggling. As such house renovations are definitely on hold - new builds (in particular small appartment blocks) are going up but we have been told that many of the appartmetns are not selling.

The same situation described by Anne is happening throughout the EU. Some areas are more affected that others, but almost everyone is feeling the pinch. Building figures are down and real estate prices, at least for those who really need to sell quickly, are being reduced. Perhaps it is an excellent time to buy property which would offer the investor more protection than investment funds, shares, etc. I have always believed in bricks (or preferably stone) and mortar....

I must say that although every Italian I know too moans (quite rightly) about the crazy cost of living increases, we're not seeing evidence of purse tightening around here by Italians. (Our village is a very popular Italian weekend home destination.) I had lunch with my geometra last week and he's extremely busy. The builder who has just finished my work has moved straight on to a far bigger project and there must be at least another half or dozen or so ongoing in this small village. I've been waiting a month for the plumber to come and install the new bathroom and he warns me it'll be a month more at least. We have new neighbours (Romans) just down the lane who paid a lot of money for what will only be a holiday home. Our local hotel was full over Easter with Italian and Dutch visitors but the owners are deeply concerned that their lucrative American market has virtually dried up due to the dreadful exchange rate. All our local restaurants were packed over the holidays but - again, with the exception of the Dutch visitors - exclusively Italian. People who have it certainly appear to be spending money still.

Violetta, it is good to hear that your area is doing so well and it is always the case that this type of crisis will affect some regions more than others. I think that possibly Tuscany in general will weather the storm better than other places, which perhaps have been overpriced. But there are signs of a slowing down of the economy at international level.
As for waiting for the plumber to come.... well, it happens everywhere!!!! I wonder why they do not train more people if they are so busy. Possibly, there would be work for quite a few extra hands....

Currently the Euro is very strong and this will affect tourism, certainly from America. Its also going to make Italian exports expensive.

I see problems on Italy's horizons and think some issues have been put off by the Italian memebership of the EU. I think the Lira would be hugely devalued if it was still in place.

Hi
Its really a big problem at present time, I am looking for the same discussion and I have learn from it a lot. Thanks to all of you for the above discussion.

What seems to be happening in our part of Umbria is that the "bad builders" often employed in the past by "bad estate agents" for the " we do it all" contracts, are now scratching for work but the good builders are still trying to keep up with demand for their services. Makes sense.
There are dozens and dozens of new building projects, including a whole holiday village, comprising of hundreds of houses above Lago Trasimeno at Castel Rigone but who will occupy them chi sa?

More people are going out for a pizza rather than a full meal and certainly belts are tightening here.

The Italian government declared recently that the economy is in a recession so there is basis for people's worries. Plus the price of basics keeps going up; things like petro, pasta, bread and coffee. Some of the bars in our area are talking about another price increase before the end of the year, that would be the second in less than 12 months.

We noticed a change in the nationality of tourists here in Amandola. Many more Dutch this year, some Belgians and still plenty of Brits (although I don't think as many) but the majority of tourists were still Italian.

There seem to be plenty of new build apartments going up and the good ones seem to be selling. I hear that it is really difficult to get a mortgage here too, with banks in one case asking for 2 years worth of payslips (!) so I am sure that must have an effect on the market.

Hah! six months on from the original post that one area that clearly looks gloomy is tourism for tourist numbers certainly appear to be down considerably in southern Tuscany. A good friend at the local tourist office confirmed that we had seen far fewer foreign tourists, especially from what is regarded as the lucrative American market. It's obvious to anyone merely driving around but the figures are official apparently. I agree that there still appear to be a fair number of visitors from the Eurozone, Dutch number plates everywhere, German & French still too. But towns such as Montalcino, towns which we usually avoid in July/August due to the crowds, were relatively quiet this summer. And even Florence was pretty subdued on the weekends we were there.
Interestingly, met a young Scottish tour guide in the doctor's surgery in Florence on Saturday. She told me that she usually has 45 people on her Italian tours every two weeks from May/October but this year has averaged only 18, and most of those were Aussies/Kiwis rather than the usual Americans.

When we were in Le Marche recently, we asked our local family run hotel if there had been fewer visitors this year. The answer was 'no' but there had been fewer English and more Dutch, and that the visitors came from all over rather than from just a few countries.

Annie.

In late July I spoke to the Scots/Italian owner of a local ristorante/pensione in Barga and she said her business was down 50% on last year. :eeeek:

There was an article in the Corriere Adriatico talking about the drop in the first 9 months in hotel rentals in Italy, primarily Rome. There were a greater drop in European visitors as well as Italian visitors. I think it was a 7%+ drop in occupancy from the same period in 2007.

Not all doom it seems. I read that inflation in Italy has dropped for the first time in seven months to 3.8%

[url=http://www.ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2008-09-30_130223834.html]ANSA.it - News in English - Inflation dips to 3. 8% in September[/url]

Florence on Tuesday 23 Sept was packed...and the foreign voices heard were mostly Australian. Those Americans we spotted seemed to be living in Italy rather than on holiday. You could hardly move in Siena in July for tourists so my Professor friend who lives there said. Perugia was rarely a crush this summer even during Umbria Jazz in July, so wonder how it will be for the Chocolate festival in October?

I think the way of life dictates the level of gloom felt by the recent economic woes.

Today It is sunny and warm (has been cold and wet for about a week or so) and, in our area, it has been the day to sit out round a sheet or tarpaulin and strip the corn from the cobs. Round here a lot of people are virtually self sufficient in food at least, They grow it, preserve it and stock pile it for winter, whether it be roasted peppers, bottled tomatoes, sausages or whatever.

However the impact of rising electricity and gas prices have a higher impact on people who have little cash.

People are, I think, tightening their belts and making the very most of what they do not have to pay for directly.

Apples are obviously not considered worth the hassle because the trees are laden but the apples remain unpicked or scattered, rotting on the ground.

This year seems to have been pretty good, produce wise so that helps but if there is a year where the economy collapses and the harvest fails, then things could get very gloomy indeed!

(ANSA) - Rome, September 30 - Italian banks currently have enough cash on hand to allow the country to weather the international credit crisis, the Treasury said on Tuesday.

[url=http://www.ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2008-09-30_130227678.html]ANSA.it - News in English - Italy can weather credit storm[/url]

That should reassure quite a few Italians I reckon. (if true).

But Sally.....What are your thoughts ?

"Tell me the thoughts that surround you ..... I want to look inside your head, yes I do yes I do".

The final verse of that song is

I know where you go to my lovely, When you’re alone in your bed.
I know the thoughts that surround you 'cause I can look inside your head.

Yes I can, yes I can………..

Peter Sarstedt, very old…end of the sixties I think.

Back on topic.

I posted in the property section that the news is reporting that house sales have slumped in Italy, especially in the North but prices are holding. It would seem that the Italian economy works completely differently to either the UK or USA. Or maybe the property market is different and so it is not so gloomy.

If we go back to old money - how many lire would a trillion dollars be? :wideeyed:

You want gloom?
One of Italy’s largest banks is selling property in a desperate attempt to boost its balance sheet as its shares were suspended for the fourth time in three days.
[url=http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article4859513.ece]UniCredit sells property to calm panicked market - Times Online[/url]

you might find the people of catania pretty gloomy too... they still have to pay for their comune...which is now broke .... in fact workers of the comune have not been paid regularly for quite some time... its another city full of rubbish... investigations are going on now into how the admin people of the comune seem to have such healthy bank accounts....

rome is having trouble too... but it wont go broke... well in fact in a sense it is...owes something like 8 billion euro... and has debts that need to be paid up until 2043... in fact its the new leader of the PD that left the city in that way so maybe just as well hes not running the country.... so i guess people that live in Rome could be a bit gloomy too... as they obviously realise that they are somehow going to have to pay part of that legacy of debt...

as regards tourism...it seems that overall there was a drop in seaside holidays and that italians were taking shorter breaks ... however they seem to also be changing habits too as agriturismo and hill/countryside holidays saw an increase .. many of these having the profile of couples with younger children

so there is good new about...

economists here are also quite positive about the future... in fact Italy is still and maybe the only manufacturing country europe...and that's the main reason for this positive outlook ...it seems they think that the world is about to return to a sane approach ... and that countries with a manufacturing based economy because its actually real will do better... hopefully true...because as far as i can work out most Italians are struggling mightily with their wages and savings are disappearing and debt is mounting

rome is having trouble too..."

Wasn't Rome going to introduce a Tourist Tax last year??? Did they???

"in fact Italy is still and maybe the only manufacturing country europe...and that's the main reason for this positive outlook ..."

Yes but many Italian companies are now having their goods produced in China, increasingly so, especially the fashion industry. Fiat parts, I understand, are made in Abruzzo and shipped for assembly in the Far East so I question economists' optimism.