9347 Not Over Protective Just Cautious!

We have had a 5 year old staying with us for the past week at our rural farmhouse. he has had the freedom to explore our land and run around without the worry of traffic or too many restrictions, and to engage in creative play. Something I did as a child, and still value the memory. Whilst his parents and two elder sisters were on hand and he was supervised, the parents said it was an invaluable experience for him and something he could not do in the UK.
Whilst I understand the concerns of parents, I feel it is important to keep a balance and allow children the opportunity to discover new things for themselves. The little boy cried when he left this morning.Our neighbour Mario said that is because he had the freedom to play in such lovely safe surroundings, it would have been a shame to deny him that.
A

[quote=il cacciatore;87771]A couple of weeks ago I read a thread about over protective parents here in Italy and just wanted to correct a number of ill informed comments.[/quote]
If you mean the thread I started called "cotton wool kids" , it wasn't about over protective parents [I][B]in Italy[/B][/I], it was a comment on a UK TV program about over protective parents there who were going to the extreme of haviing their childeren electronically tagged ... but the thread did develop to talk about the subject of parental control in general, including one passing reference to some US kids holidaying in Italy.

[quote=il cacciatore;87771]That aside lets talk about the facts. One. I know 3 men that have committed crimes agianst children in my area alone let alone further afield. The men have all escape punishment due to the poor legal system here in Italy. [/quote]this must indeed be very worrying for you, and I can see why you would need to be very careful with your kids in your area as a result. However bad people are a fact of life, and if kids don't understand that concept they have less chance of spotting a bad man if they ever come into contact with one. Your kids, so your choice; try to guard them 24/7 or try to make them aware and alert. Neither is 100% doable; I'd suggest a balance between the two would be best.

[quote=il cacciatore;87771]Two. Seeing the number of accidents in towns, the lack of pavements and the way Italians drive definitely wouldn't allow my children to play on or near one. [/quote]understood. I guess the ideal would be to choose an area to live in where there are pavements/pedestrianised areas, but I guess life's seldom like that. I don't think anyone in the other thread was advocating that we make kids play on busy roads without pavements though, you kind of put those words in our mouths.

[quote=il cacciatore;87771]Thirdly. We don't need to expose are children to the reality of life and the school of hard knocks they'll find out soon enough. A parents should be informing they children of the society they live in, they don't need to see it this hand![/quote]
well, that's what we were debating, and everyone will do what they think best. The point of the debate was whether controlled exposure to reality at an early age will result in a young adult who is better prepared for the hard knocks when they come. Again, there is no "right answer", each parent will follow their own conscience and experience.

[quote=il cacciatore;87771]My point is that there a dangers in England and in Italy, but I certainly don't believe that parents with young families should relax their control just because they are in Italy. The dangers are the same.[/quote]agreed, italy is clearly not exempt from danger (I don't think anyone was saying otherwise).

[quote=il cacciatore;87771]Perhaps those who have grown up children or havn't got children living here in Italy shouldn't be commenting on those that do.
:no:[/quote]Well I don't have kids at all, and I don't live in Italy full time, but I don't think that removes my right to comment.

Certainly, you have every right to make as many comments as you want, Pigro. Raising children is a matter of common sense.... which seems to be the less common of all senses. Dangers may be everywhere, what is important is to teach children how to deal with potential problems from a very young age... and pray that they will follow your instructions.

My first re visit to Italy back in 1995 after an 14 year gap,left me with the impression of how much safer it felt for all concerned when compared to the UK. The fact that the kids were out on the streets playing,and you could walk around the town at 11pm at night without fear of coming across a bunch of drunken yobs.

Even the size of the towns in question made it a fare comparison [aprox 8000 pop]

Now clearly we are not talking huge metropolisis here, as "most" actually look for properties that are set in a more rural landscape, small towns and villages.

So being as i am entilted to my opinion, the very fact that the booze culture has not hit the youths of Italy yet,then i would say there are vast differences between dangers in The uk and Italy.
Of corse parents should be vigil,that goes with out saying.

But i got the impression that many move to Italy because the quality of life is so much better,and not just for the grown ups.......

I read somewhere that it takes a village to raise a child. Our daughter first visited the village we bought our property in aged 8, one road in, 3 tracks out, I have never felt so safe, and she so free.
Five years on she watches for the little ones, all out till the clock strikes 11, then an argument to stretch it to 11.30.
Plans for hop scotch in the morning.

Hello,
Well again I see those rose tinted spectacles are firmly stuck on the nose of certain persons!
It's always the same when the subject of protection and safety is raised in conversation. Immediately when one asks what its is like in Italy compared to England everyone says "Well its not got he drunkenness or yob culture". In honesty it does, but in a different way.
For example road safety here is none existent. As I hope you see how Italians drive whilst under the influence of alcohol. It doesn't exactly fill me with confidence to let my children run free.
The other day I was standing in town when I spied the local Bread shop owner and his friend the paper shop owner both were completely paralytic. As they stumbled up to their cars to drive home it was reassuring to see that one hadn't even bother to do his flies up.
"Yes" if you live up a private road in your own land I doubt you would have much to fear, but I certainly wouldn't want them two driving through any village where children play.
On the subject of alcohol and youth culture here in Italy. You only have to read last years papers to know how many young Italians died last year in cars accidents when returning from the local "disotecta". I certainly wouldn't want my daughter or son in a car when that could happen.
Then there's the case recently of the foreigner builder who whilst under the influence plough into a group of teenage cyclists killing five.
I could go on, but I think enough said about roads, drinking and safety.
The youth culture in Italy may not be as you really think, not all are raised so well. For one drugs here are rife probably more so than in England due to the lack of control. Last weeks local paper described how drugs were freely available in the schooling system. I know many young Italians who partake of the local "weed".
You might not see there behaviour outside the local bar, but have a look behind the bar or down the alleyway and you might not be so impressed. The relax control by Italian parents doesn't mean that their children are not being exposed to potential dangers. I know quite a few families who are grieving for their lost son or daughter, tragic it maybe, but a reality of society here today.
Again I agree if you live all alone in your own private house with your own land all around, in the middle of no where or in a village with one old lady in her nineties I doubt very much you have anything to worry about.
"Yes" if your young family member comes to stay for a week and gets to happily play in your garden or the neighbours field there's nothing to worry about.
On the other hand if you are like me and many of the other foreigners who live in Italy today there are dangers around for which you have to protect your children from.
I would much rather wrap my children in cotton wool then place him into a closed box!
The point is that every country has it's problems and times are changing here as well. It's better not to wear those rose tinted glasses when your a parent in any foreign country.

I saw this article [url=http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2203135.0.Violence_on_streets_linked_to_drinking_in_pregnancy.php]Violence On Streets Linked To Drinking In Pregnancy (from The Herald )[/url] in my local paper today. Quite interesting in general, but I wonder what people make of the rather contentious extracts below:

[I]Violent behaviour in young men is closely linked to drinking in pregnancy by their mothers, according to Scotland's chief medical officer.

Dr Harry Burns told MSPs yesterday he believes foetal alcohol spectrum disorder (FASD) is a key element in behaviour problems once the babies grow up.
......
......
He said the only major study of prevalence of the FASD problem, including the more serious cases known as foetal alcohol syndrome, was carried out in Italy, which would not pick up the specific problems of Scottish drinking habits. That found up to 4% of schoolchildren were affected, or one in 25, and concluded that the Italian habit of drinking wine with meals had a similar impact to binge-drinking in other countries[/I].

[quote=pigro;87864][I]Violent behaviour in young men is closely linked to drinking in pregnancy by their mothers, according to Scotland's chief medical officer.[/I][/quote]
So drunken, loutish parents beget drunken, loutish children? Who woulda thot? :eerr:
[quote=pigro;87864]He said the only major study of prevalence of the FASD problem, including the more serious cases known as foetal alcohol syndrome, was carried out in Italy, which would not pick up the specific problems of Scottish drinking habits. That found up to 4% of schoolchildren were affected, or one in 25, and concluded that the Italian habit of drinking wine with meals had a similar impact to binge-drinking in other countries[/I].[/quote]
I find this interesting because the gynaecologist my partner saw during her pregnancy gave her a diet sheet on their first meeting and it included a glass of wine with the evening meal.

Everything we read about alcohol consumption during pregnancy indicated that it is clearly a Very Bad Idea since there is no known lower limit which will definitely [I]not[/I] produce foetal problems, so my partner ignored that advice. If our Italian was better, we would have challenged the diet advice on a later visit, but instead we just let it be.

But, in the context of this thread, how can the suggestion that maternal alcohol consumption leads to violence in offspring be reconciled with the fact that there does not seem to be such a big problem with violence in Italy even though mothers here routinely do drink, and perhaps just as much as mothers of violent Scots males?

Al

I think Al that the question here is a glass of wine with dinner is OK?. I dont doubt and find interesting Pigros post.It is the amount that is drunk that is the problem. I rarely see here women drinking to excess, I have Italian women friends who do not drink at all. And if you go out to a local restuarant a bottle between 6 is not unusual and they still walk away without finishing it. It is drinking too much that is the problem, and perhaps the unhappy wives of the drinkers in Scotand have an attitude of if I cannot beat him I will drink as well.
It is a very different culture here, in my experience I think you are wrong in the assumption that women here do drink, to excess, and that the situation found in the survey, does not equate to the Italian lifestyle.
A

Thank you for that response il cacciatore,and for your blunt frankness,and for what its worth i will be blunt too,afterall no one forced you to move to whichever part of italy you moved too.

So the only person seeing things through rose tinted glases surely was you when you were looking for a place to buy.

No one has said Italy does not have problems,but socially how on earth you can even dream of comparing the situation in the UK, drugs drunkeness and anti social behaviour, to that of italy,is just pure proposterous. Maybe someone should take off their rose tinted glasses,when thinking of the UK!

Well, last time I looked England was part of the same island as Wales Scotland and Northern Ireland that we all call Great Britain and as I see it they all share the same problem of binge drinking, drug taking, the carrying of knives and guns as though it were normal and absolutely no respect for either people or property - you only have to look in the media to find this is fact. Now I confess I always have rose tinted glasses on when I visit my homeland and yes there are elements of the aforementioned problems but not in the extreme that we endure in the UK. My little boy has freedom in both countries but I am slighly more lax with him and our property when we are in Italy, I can leave my garage door open with keys still in the car and there it will remain along with my children. I dont doubt that Italy has its own problems, but these are caused in the main by immigrants that are arriving en mass in Italy my opinion only of course. But yes I certainly feel a lot safer and more secure in Italy than in the UK.:smile:

Immigrants?, I would suggest that I am an immigrant in Italy, as my home country is England. And there are many immigrants by definition around here in Marche, English, American, Dutch, German. I could go on . Maybe you need to define what you think the title denotes?
A

Well sorry Angie and Robert for offending you both and for anyone elso that I called an immigrant and to loosely suggest that rising crime rates are due to immigration - a thousand apologies.