In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=giovanni;88153]As for the rules and how they apply,in england you can make/use [bio homemade]upto 2500 litres without having to pay tax.[/quote]I believe you're mistaken there. You're liable for duty on every litre of fuel you use in a road vehicle, regardless of source.
I'm sure the Revenue have the details on their web site.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Steve's right, you are liable for road tax but the rate is considerably lower and it's self-policed as no-one really knows how much you've made/used.....
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Article on the subject from wikipedia.
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight_vegetable_oil]Vegetable oil used as fuel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Thanks for the input although some of it is incorrect,
Steve and Tuscanhills, you are incorrect in saying that tax is due on straight vegetable oil. The relevent tax information from the IR site states:
If you have produced or used less than 2,500 litres of:
any biofuel, or
any other fuel substitute or additive
within the last 12 months, and/or expect to produce or use less than 2,500 litres in the next 12 months, you are an exempt producer and do not need to register with HMRC and account for duty. However, there are simple record-keeping requirements, which are described in paragraph 4.9.1.
The relevent tax requirments can be found on the Inland Revenue site here
[url=http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000205&propertyType=document]HM Revenue & Customs[/url]
This is an updated version of Notice 179E which I believe required registration for the use of all fuels, to get registration as a small user of alternative fuels was made almost impossible by the tax rules. The only way I found to do it legally was to register as a user of low sulphur fuel which gave a slightly lower tax rate than normal diesel.
Giovanni, you are correct in saying it is the diesel pump that gets damaged, but the pump is part of the engine. One of the main reasons that modern engines don't like veg oil is because they have complex computer systems which monitor oil quality and viscosity and they get confused with the difference between diesel and veg oil. You are also correct in pointing out damage to seals although this tends to be a problem with older diesel engines. Problems have also occured with using heat exchangers made out of copper, which can react with the veg oil and block jets. Generally speaking the engines to go for are all mechanical rather than anything with a computer in it, for a landrover this would be anything with a 300tdi engine.
I have been trying out various bits of equipment to get it all to work, I have bought a Pollack six port valve from the states, these are used on big trucks to switch between different fuel tanks. The switching also switches fuel sensors so you can keep track of fuel levels in different tanks. I am using a high temperature heat exchanger made of plastic and stainless steel which I took out of a boiler which I will use to pre heat the oil before it goes through the pump. I am also looking into buying an industrial centrifuge which will allow me to clean used cooking oil so it can be used as a fuel. Centrifuges will not only fillter particles but also water as water is heavier than oil, this is where a lot of engines fail as the water content of used cooking oil is quite high and can lead to the growth of bacteria which bungs up filters.
What I am trying to establish is how legal this would be in Italy, I am aware there are different regulations but if you travel on uk plates does that mean you only comply with uk law, in which case it would be legal. Or does local law apply in which case I am not sure?
Cheers
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
You need to read that customs document more carefully. As an exempt (i.e. small) producer, you are not required to keep detailed production accounts, but it doesn't say anywhere that you are exempt from fuel duty!
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Hi,
Well I have been in contact with the inland revenue and that was not there interpretation.
Cheers
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Maybe I need to be a bit more specific, the responsibility for collecting duty falls on the distributor, when you buy petrol in a garage the duty is included in the price. The same with a biodiesel distributor. The key point is that I don't sell fuel, I make my own, and as the text says
If you have produced or used less than 2,500 litres of any other fuel substitute or additive within the last 12 months, and/or expect to produce or use less than 2,500 litres in the next 12 months, you are an exempt producer.
The key point is produced or USED. Not just produced. The title says it all,
Exempt producers/users
I use less than 2,500 litres, therefore I am an exempt user.
It should be pointed out that prior to this change there was a different system for the payment of duty on biodiesel which involved registration and the paying of a much lower rate of duty than applies to nomal dino diesel. The problem whith that system was it was almost impossible to register for because of the complex rules, all this new system has done is make the previous system a little easier for people like me. If I had been willing to jump through all the hoops then it was also possible to register to pay a much lower rate of duty under the old system.
Cheers
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=Steve Graham;88178]I believe you're mistaken there. You're liable for duty on every litre of fuel you use in a road vehicle, regardless of source.
I'm sure the Revenue have the details on their web site.[/quote]
Nope, not mistaken,
[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/19/ncarbon219.xml]Vegetable oil and methanol - the new diesel - Telegraph[/url]
But heres another thing most people do not know . You car licience,if its the new photo type it only last for 10 years before you need to have a new photo!
I mention this because the new type of photo licience will be 10 years old in june!!!!
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
I think this is what you want
[url=http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/excise-duty/brief4307.htm]HM Revenue & Customs: Follow up to Revenue & Customs Brief 37/07 on Biofuels Simplification[/url]
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Our diesel car runs well with a 15% or so mix in of filtered used vegetable oil or even grade Z olive oil (readily available in our area) -- so far no problem pouring it in the tank using a funnel-- and if the guardia di finanza or carabinieri are watching, they haven't said anything to us! Are you all discussing problems with doing this in the UK? My take on doing it in Italy (rural Italy) is, so? My Pugliese neighbors consider this just another way of being "furbo" e "frugale".
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Many of you may be interested in another forum, where this thread should be transfered to!
[url=http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/]vegetableoildiesel.co.uk - Powered by XMB[/url]
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
I have a 22 yr old landy and have been thinking of taking it off the road thru summer as i currently spend E40 per week on diesel, but am seriously considering trying the cooking oil as i work in a restaurant and can have the used stuff for free.
so whats the best ratio? is 50/50 ok? or should I use more diesel to oil?
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=herealready;88423]I have a 22 yr old landy and have been thinking of taking it off the road thru summer as i currently spend E40 per week on diesel, but am seriously considering trying the cooking oil as i work in a restaurant and can have the used stuff for free.
so whats the best ratio? is 50/50 ok? or should I use more diesel to oil?[/quote]
Exactly what are you intending to do?
Will you be treating the cooking oil properly or just draining out the bits and sticking it into the tank?
50/50,might be pushing it abit,certainly in the colder months if you do not have a diesel heater fitted, then would not try much more than 70/30 in diesels favour.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
treating it properly?? ooh no, I am a girl- just sieve out the big bits and see what happens! will try 70/ 30 and let you know.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=herealready;88490]treating it properly?? ooh no, I am a girl- just sieve out the big bits and see what happens! will try 70/ 30 and let you know.[/quote]
Its best to start little and then gradually dilute the diesel ratio. do be cafefull,i would surgest doing a search of the internet for advice..
Missed that.... when you say sieve out the big bits, you really have got to sieve out all the bits. honest
[quote] newer diesel engines don't like veg oil and you can damage your engine and void any warranty.[/quote]
Its not the engines that get damaged but the injector pumps,which are very costly and some of the seals react too.
Nevertheless,you could add and get away with a diesel/veggy oil mix of 85 /15%
As for the rules and how they apply,in england you can make/use [bio homemade]
upto 2500 litres without having to pay tax.
As for Italy, not sure of the rules,but you wont found any old cooking oil there to use...........although you are not breaking any rules by arriving in Italy with this fuel already in your tanks,if it lasts that long....