9523 Anyone know how to deal with sick fruit trees

You have to figure out what's wrong with them first.

Sulfur is considered organic and can be used to treat some things.

Other then that first thing tends to be good hygenie. Prune. Clean up all infected leaves. Don't spread the problem around.

Nick is right, of course, but I'd suggest that you might also consider whether there actually is a problem.

I'm not disputing what you say. From your description, it's pretty clear that the trees are showing symptoms of being under attack by something or other, but it seems to me that, as well as asking what that [I]something[/I] might be, you need to ask yourself is if it really matters that the trees are less than perfect.

Is it important to you that you get edible fruit off the trees? Is it important to you that the trees flourish because they're a crucial feature of your garden? Or are you just feeling sorry for the trees or perhaps embarassed that they're not as nice looking as the one in your neighbours' gardens?

The trees that came with our house were a mixed bag, but few of them looked thoroughly healthy at any point. After a complete year in the place, I came to the conclusion that almost all the fruit trees were rubbish since the skinflint previous owner had grown them from seed rather than doing things the proper way and buying named cultivars that had been grafted onto the appropriate rootstock. Fruit trees hardly ever produce anything nice if grown from seed. Also, some rootstocks help to reduce susceptability to some diseases.

The result of this conclusion was that last winter my chainsaw and I created a nice stack of firewood. Then I planted a selection of new fruit trees that will, in a few years, start producing fruit much nicer than anything previously grown on this place.

My point is that I'd suggest you wait and see if you think the trees are really worth worrying about, or if you should give some (or all) of the existing trees a decent send-off and then make a contribution to the on-going history of your place by planting some new trees.

I'd also suggest that a wait-and-see strategy [I]might[/I] result in you discovering that the trees and whatever it is that's causing them to look sad at the moment have established some sort of equilibirum over the years: the ancient apple trees here are looking very munched-upon at the moment, but I know they'll cope okay and produce another crop of mediocre apples in a few months. There's also obviously something around that much enjoys cherry leaf salad, so those trees also are looking bad, but I know they'll soon produce more cherries than we will ever be able to cope with.

There's an old adage that you should never do anything with the garden until you've lived in a house for a year. That advice usually refers to digging things up or planting new things, but I'd put spraying toxins on that list too.

I very much doubt that a bit of watchful neglect on your part will result in the trees dying in a couple of months.

Al

As Nick says, try to identify the problem which is making your trees so sick, although I agree with Al that the problem may be the tree itself.
Try to get an expert to look at them, but if you want to have some fun yourself, have a look at this:

[url=http://www.caf.wvu.edu/kearneysville/wvufarm8.html]Fruit Pathology - Tree Fruit Disease Fact Sheets and Photographs[/url]

[Is it important to you that you get edible fruit off the trees? Is it important to you that the trees flourish because they're a crucial feature of your garden? Or are you just feeling sorry for the trees or perhaps embarassed that they're not as nice looking as the one in your neighbours' gardens?

My main interest is the having lots of edible fruit rather than having a nice looking garden. I didn't prune because the trees had already started to flower. It would be a shame to chop any down but maybe they've become too wild to bear anything decent. How do you deal with the ones you didn't chop down? Do you use sulfur?

[quote=kika;89282]My main interest is the having lots of edible fruit rather than having a nice looking garden. I didn't prune because the trees had already started to flower. It would be a shame to chop any down but maybe they've become too wild to bear anything decent. How do you deal with the ones you didn't chop down? Do you use sulfur?[/quote]
I doubt if your trees have "become too wild". However, it is possible they could benefit from pruning, that they're of varieties that produce fruit which you won't find as nice as other, more modern varieties, that some will only produce a good crop of tasty fruit in years when the weather in your patch is just right and or that some trees might need to be removed because they're diseased and beyond help.

You'll probably know the answer to most of those questions by the time you put up a Christmas tree. Unfortunately, even an expert (which I am not) would have difficulty making an accurate assessment now and offering good advice without a lot more information on what exactly you think is wrong with each of the trees.

The trees here I didn't remove were huge cherry trees, very old apple trees (of an unknown and not wonderful-tasting variety), a few figs (which grow like weeds around here), walnuts (most of which are in a plantation) and a few others which escaped the chop just because I got a bit fed up with the task and they're in corners where they aren't an obstuction or causing other problems.

I've not sprayed anything this year. Partly that's because there are other things occupying my time and partly it's because I consider sprays a last resort. Mainly it's because the scale of things here. In my last British garden, I had space for half a dozen spindle-pruned apple trees. They were each coddled - indeed, the British climate means you generally [I]have[/I] to coddle most fruit trees if you want any sort of harvest - whereas here we have a dozen old apple trees alone. It's impossible for me to get too concerned about the bugs munching on leaves and fruit since losing a few - or even a few hundred - apples to maggots will still leave us with much more than we need.

I'm not a commercial grower, I'm not at all concerned about what the neighbours think of how I'm managing the trees and I don't have an enormous extended family which will be grateful for some free food, so things in the orchard are basically left to get on with finding their own balance. I believe the same applied to the previous owner. He probably just called it saving money, but you could stick a fancier label on it: 'minimal input farming' or 'organic'.

The vegetable garden is a slightly different story: it's intensely planted in raised beds and closely managed, but even there pest control is of the 'pick it off and squish it' or 'shrug and accept it' sort, rather than by spraying chemicals ('organic' or not) at the first sign of a creepy-crawlie or a blemished tomato.

I have no idea of the scale of your garden or how many trees you're talking about and I have little idea of the severity of the problems with the trees, but I continue to suspect things are unlikely to be a total loss if you just let matters run their natural course this year. If nothing else, it will be yet another aspect of the learning process of having a new home in Italy.

Al

If the trees haven't been pruned in years part of the problem may be the lack of air flow.

A good pruning will help. Plus IIRC apricots flower on new wood like peaches. So no pruning means a smaller crop.

If they've been abandoned for years then you can't do all the pruning in one year. You'll need to do in stages over the next few years.

The other things is you might [I say might] have a nutrient issue. It's unlikely things are that bad but you need to figure out what is the problem.

Even if you don't like the varieties they might be good for setting fruit on the other trees.

It's also getting warm out. Then if you've got flowers that's an additional issue. Spraying isn't something to think about just yet.

Clean up around the trees.

I find this article most interesting as it deals not only with correct pruning techniques but also training, so that the tree gets an optimal shape. Have a look:
[url=http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/ag29.html]Training and Pruning Fruit Trees[/url]

Are they getting too dry?

Mysteriously an old mulberry in our garden died suddenly last year.No idea why.It was ok.

And a neighbours cherry did the same thing. Fruit trees don't live forever so it may be best to cut these ones down and replant in the autumn.In the uk we get something callled fireback or squirells can kill off trees by stripping the bark.Could it be either of these?

Just to say that the fig trees will need pruning, pretty severely, and you will get bigger fruit and by crafty pruning you will be able to pick from lower branches much more easily.

Thanks for all the suggestions. My neighbour offererd to come spray verderame on my trees. Had no idea what it was and have since found out and declined the offer for the time being. I've decided to this year to be very relaxed and see what happens. I've been reading and I need to read a bit more to really understand what's going on. I will get a professional to come and assess the trees too, that way I don't waste time trying to resurrect a tree when there is little hope. The West Virginia uni site is excellent reading I have actually found one of the problems in my garden listed on there. :smile:

[quote=kika;89393]My neighbour offererd to come spray verderame on my trees. Had no idea what it was and have since found out and declined the offer for the time being.[/quote]
My dictionary says that '[I]verderame[/I]' means - logically enough - verdigris which, [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verdigris"]according to Wikipedia[/URL], has been used as a fungicide. Given that it's also toxic to humans, I imagine it would probably deal with at least some insect problems you might have. However, it's not something I'd want sprayed around my garden.

I wonder, however, if your neighbour's reference to 'green copper' might not have been a colloquial term for [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper(II)_sulfate"]copper sulfate[/URL], or some variation on what's called Bordeaux mixture in English speaking lands. They do seem to spray this stuff with abandon here (look out for the vinyards with totally blue leaves in a couple of months), although I have heard it suggested that agricultural chemical manufacturers pander to this tradition by including an inert blue-green powder in their products.

I do think you're right to jsut stand back and pay attention to what's going on in your garden this first year. A notebook or computer diary might be helpful: something I always tell myself I should keep, but never do and so always end up forgetting how things progress as the days trip by.

Myabruzzohome is right about trees having a natural lifespan. Cherries are supposedly good for about 20 years only, although I suspect the one in our garden with a trunk 18 inches in diametre is a lot older than that and it's in very good health with a good crop of cherries developing. Myabruzzohome is also right about lack of water being a problem, quite a few trees in our garden either died completely, suffered die-back or looked very unhappy and produced little or no fruit during the 2006-07 drought here.

I hope you discover over the next few months that things are a lot brighter in your garden than you currently suspect.

Al

[quote=kika;89393]My neighbour offererd to come spray verderame on my trees. Had no idea what it was and have since found out and declined the offer for the time being. [/quote]
Depending upon your neighbour and what he is treating "verderame" should be OK, copper sulphate and zolfo (sulphur) or hydrated lime - which is permissable in "organic" farming. Also known as Bordeaux mix.
The verderame is primarily combatting the impact of high humidity (e.g. black rot on grapes, leaf curl on peaches and scab and bitter rot on apples along with various mildew).
For the 2nd year our prized apple tree has suffered wooly afid (branches covered in white sticky "fur") - and I have found the most effective treatment is a hose and my hands - liberally hosing off the "fur" and rubbing each effected area with hands and water to remove all traces - labourious, sticky but effective and entirely without chemicals!

[quote=piedmont_phil;90045]Depending upon your neighbour and what he is treating "verderame" should be OK, copper sulphate and zolfo (sulphur) or hydrated lime - which is permissable in "organic" farming. Also known as Bordeaux mix.[/quote]
When I learned that years ago, I immediately began to have doubts about what an 'organic' label actually means. Personally, I'd no more drink a tumbler of Bordeaux mix than I would down a glass of one of the more modern fungicides.
[quote=piedmont_phil;90045]For the 2nd year our prized apple tree has suffered wooly afid (branches covered in white sticky "fur") - and I have found the most effective treatment is a hose and my hands - liberally hosing off the "fur" and rubbing each effected area with hands and water to remove all traces - labourious, sticky but effective and entirely without chemicals![/quote]
The fruit trees we planted last winter have been thoroughly gnawed by caterpillars and sucked by aphids this spring. I wouldn't mind too much if they were bigger, but they're only whips at this point and they don't have much foliage to spare. I'm taking a gruesome pleasure out of finding the wriggling little monsters where they hide under curled leaves and squishing them. Same applies to the scale insects on our lemon tree.

Very labour-intensive, but somehow also satisfying in a sort of barbaric way! :bigergrin:

Al

[quote=AllanMason;90068]When I learned that years ago, I immediately began to have doubts about what an 'organic' label actually means. Personally, I'd no more drink a tumbler of Bordeaux mix than I would down a glass of one of the more modern fungicides.[/quote]
I know what you are saying Al but I wouldn't drink horse manure whereas I would put it on my tomatoes :-)

Working in the vines today (at last a dry day!) I noticed there are a lot (*lot*) of ladybirds - fantastic - one of natures best as far as geting rid of the nasties goes.....

I was at a meeting last night with an organic orchardist (apples, pears, cherries, peaches, apricots) -- for the first time I heard that sometimes a sick tree will go into a biennial mode (skipping fruiting every other season) -- her suggestion, besides the manual care that's been described here, is to add a "summer" pruning to your winter pruning schedule, for the sick trees only, first by removing up to half of the set fruit if the tree shows signs of scale or fur or other pest infestation, and after the fruit is off the tree, remove any small water suckers or crossed small branches completely, to "dry" the tree out before the winter rains/snows set in. I didn't realize that the cell division of setting the fruit lasts only 10 days, after that the cells themselves simply get bigger as the fruit matures!!

I agree with the above post regarding pruning. It may also be the case for the rest of your trees too that they just need a bit of care rather than a lot of chemical treatment. Do your research carefully before applying chemicals as you may end up doing more harm than good.

Do you know how long ago your trees were last pruned ??