9805 Deposit before mortgage survey?

I personally would never agree to do this. With the state of the market at the moment, you are arguably in the driving seat. You may want to read this WHOLE thread.

[url]http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/legal/2603-lawyers.html[/url]

It has some very good advice in it.

Good luck

If the mortgage is make or break then make the deal conditional on finding acceptable fianacing.

Good advice - make sure you get a lawyer in this case to make the compromesso subject to the finance, then you can get the deposit back. If you can arrange it, the lawyer could hold the money, to keep you safe. I would highly recommend Giovanna Salvucci with practices in Civitanova and a home office in San Ginesio - she has helped lots of our guests with anything and everything to do with purchasing, including arranging mortgages with them.

It does sound very strange regarding the deposit before the survey - who is the mortgage with?? Call if you need contact details for Giovanna 0733 653081

regards
Pam

Rowan - may I ask if you are being asked to place a deposit with your offer ([i]'proposta d'aquisto'[/i]) or with your contract ([i]'compromesso'[/i])?

If it is the former, you are under no obligation to place any deposit at all. It would be better to make a formal enquiry about whether your offer is acceptable in principal and risk losing only the mortgage application fee, than risk losing thousands of €€€'s in deposit.

The advice from Villa Sibilini sounds good. The bank I work for asks people to have an account with us, before offering a mortgage but that is not the same as a deposit.

As an aside deposit insurance in Italy is much better than the UK as deposits are state guaranteed up to €100,000 per deposit, not per depositor!

Thanks so much everyone! Wow, I didn't actually expect any replies!
Our agent has said that the deposit must legally be paid with the compremesso before the survey (which we haven't signed yet) as all houses is italy are sold 'as seen'.
We have a verbal offer of a mortgage from Blevins Franks, but they will not issue a written offer until they are satisfied that the house passes the survey - which seems fairly sensible to me. The other threads were really very useful so thanks so much for those. The agent is also saying that the vendors may have a second offer that they may take over ours. He is also asking for his fees to be paid at the signing of the compremesso (even thought he service he offers takes us right up to rogito? completion) which he says is also 'the law'. His priority is obviously getting his fees paid rather than looking after us, which is fair enough, I'm a big girl, I just need to be clear that I will only progress this sale on fair terms (our terms). Thanks so much all of you - shall I come back and tell you what happens?!

as to your final comment... it would be nice to hear the end to the story.. hopefully satisfactory for you

regarding your agents comments...the sold as seen statement is basically a lie...and indeed there are new rules which are just introduced making the it more sensible to have all buying contracts conditional on properties meeting certain standards as regards services ...or price reductions if not...

it is usual for agents to be paid at compromesso ...but is not compulsory...an agent will negotiate a half payment and final payment at the final act if he thinks he/she has to... but not law...

its unusual that the agent is behaving in this way i would say... and the use of a lawyer could well be worth your while... the only suggestion i would make as to why is that sales are very slow at the moment and maybe they are more desperate than usual for the income... but that's their problem.....

however pressure to sign things can also be construed in my opinion quite rightly for a problem with the property so it pays to be cautious often its a sort of personal call ... ie your level of trust in the fact that by law...and this is the law the agent has to act equally for both buyer and seller and give all the relevant facts known about the property to anyone attamepting to buy... in fact there is not just one law... there is a whole series ... however if you have doubts...and obviously the question posed by you suggests a not complete confidence then stick to your own feelings and risk losing it rather than being jumped into things

I'm so pleased to hear about an agent citing laws that exist only in his wishful thinking and telling a client that there may be another offer the vendors will accept before theirs. Reaffirms what I believe about in the integrity and professionalism of many in the Italian property game. :rollingeyes:

If you wanted to be a bit bolshie, you could casually ask your agent if it's true what you've heard about how agents are required by law to be registered. If you wanted to be a bit more assertive, you could ask him exactly what legislation he's been referring to - it's far more common for Italians to reference laws by precise article number than it is to see Acts of Parliament cited in the UK. If you wanted to be [I]really[/I] awkward, you could tell him you're having second thoughts about the property due partly to tumbling exchange rates, but mainly because you don't want to incur pre-mortgage expenses and then loose the house to the "other buyer" he has so kindly warned you about.

Others have given sensible advice about how you might proceed, but I'd like to say a couple of things about attitudes and emotions.

It is stating the obvious (although that's sometimes easy to lose sight of when one is caught up in the process of pursuing your dream home), but it's highly unlikely the property you've found is the [I]only[/I] place in Italy that would suit you. Sometimes, people fall in love with a property so deeply that all rationality flies out the window. People also sometimes start to feel they're locked into a deal because to back out would be to throw away all the money and time they've so far invested. Either position is a dangerous one.

I have no idea how much time and effort you've put in to getting to where you are now, but I'd suggest that this is exactly the time when you should be doing your best to hold on to your critical faculties and not permit yourself to be pressured by someone who can only benefit if you panic and rush to compromesso on terms set by him. Better, I think, to hold on to the idea that it would be wonderful to get [I]this[/I] house, but it wouldn't be the end of the world if that doesn't happen for one reason or another.

Al

The use of the term law can be widely interpreted, and I suspect the agent is saying that the law that entitles him to his fees at compromesso is the Codice Civile - which says that this is the case as 'the affair has been concluded due to his intervention at this point. Usually, as Adriatica says, most agents now take 50% at compromesso and 50% at act, as foregin purchasers would rightly feel that the agent might well disappear after the compromesso if he had all their money in the bank. However, it might be worth reminding the agent if you have doubts, that only a legally registered agent has a right to provvigione at the point of compromesso. Any other agent, consultant, property finder, totally illegal wide boy... has no right whatsoever to ask for any 'commission' at any point. They can have a range of fees, equivalent to provvigione, but as with all fees these should only be paid when you ahve receieved the services paid for - ie after the act and when you are happy.

[quote=ram;91698]The use of the term law can be widely interpreted, and I suspect the agent is saying that the law that entitles him to his fees at compromesso is the Codice Civile - which says that this is the case as 'the affair has been concluded due to his intervention at this point. Usually, as Adriatica says, most agents now take 50% at compromesso and 50% at act, as foregin purchasers would rightly feel that the agent might well disappear after the compromesso if he had all their money in the bank. However, it might be worth reminding the agent if you have doubts, that only a legally registered agent has a right to provvigione at the point of compromesso. Any other agent, consultant, property finder, totally illegal wide boy... has no right whatsoever to ask for any 'commission' at any point. They can have a range of fees, equivalent to provvigione, but as with all fees these should only be paid when you ahve receieved the services paid for - ie after the act and when you are happy.[/quote]

All valid points but to me the most important aspect is QUOTE "Our agent has said that the deposit must legally be paid with the compremesso before the survey (which we haven't signed yet) as all houses is italy are sold 'as seen'."

This is an outright lie. When you catch someone out telling such a big whopper you should take legal advice every step of the way.

I have to disagree - it isnt an outright lie - it is an interpretation of the law. The agent has a legal right to his commission at compromesso - so yes - it can be said it is legally paid at that point... you must rememeber that Italians are masters of interpretation and indietrologia! AS to whether a house is sold as seen - aren't all houses? If you choose to take a survey that will inform your decision as to whether to proceed, but it wont change what is on offer. - What i suspect he means by sold as seen is that what you see is what you get - and he isnt going to hang on to see if you get the concessione edilizia or the permission for the pool - you buy what he's selling - the rest is up to you. I know its splitting hairs but its Italians are very good at!

Ops - now Ive read all the posts I see I jumped the gun .- sorry.
The problem with makuing a compromesso subject to finance is widely accepted by foreigners buying here - for many Italians its a new thing and they dont like it. A compromesso invokes a legal obligation to sell and buy - by making it subject to finance it means the seller is legally bound to sell to you, but you arent legally bound to buy - so any caparra paid at compromesso has to sit and do nothing until you get your definite mortgage offer. Round here, such a one sided deal 'lacks respect' and I have had prospective vendors walk out of the notaios at that point - The law needs to catch up with the markets on this one, as for the seller the compromesso with such a 'get out clause' is worth less than the paper its written on.

I would look at other mortgage offers as well. Not sure who Blevins are going with, but they are a good sound company that I know well from property exhibitions. Again Giovanna, our lawyer organises mortgages and also is known for her directness with agents - who will 'roll over' and do just what is right for the client, under her watchful eye!!

Good luck and let us know how it goes