9850 mortgage rejected due to house listed as a warehouse?

o dear..doesnt sound good...so basically your agent lied to you,we are buying via 'housearounditaly.com' in avellino naples.
we are in process of asking her what this means.so you wouldnt have been able to live in the house if you only bought that one..is that right?:no:

I don't think the town would give you residence. So no prima casa rate. No residence rate for utilites either.

Could you live in it? I guess nobody is going to come knocking to check but if you go to sell it the buyer would face the same issue.

With the low value it might not be worthwhile to get the status changed. So if you haven't bought it or fallen in love I'd consider looking at something else.

Hello all,

change house scheduling from previous "categoria" to living home "categoria" as :
A/1 - A/2 - A/3 ( THIS IS BETTER TO BUY AS prima casa AND DO NOT PAY ICI TAX)
is easy , your "geometra" can make it in about 25/35 days (depend by cadrastal offices ) ,
If you make restoration this is more easy , you can ask the changment at commune offices,
within the restoration project or DIA .

[quote=barn_elms;91928] Incidentally is it really true that there is no ICI payable on A1 properties?[/quote]
I suspect like you, not as I understand it - according to our local mayor A1, A8 and A9 properties do still pay ICI even if Prima Casa.

Hello

here Ugo , IN TODI - Umbria , not Sulmona :)
regarding ici , please go to
[url=http://www.repubblica.it/2008/05/sezioni/economia/tremonti-fisco/ici-chi-paga/ici-chi-paga.html]Ici, per qualcuno è rimasta Ecco chi deve ancora pagare - economia - Repubblica.it[/url]
note :
Le prime case escluse - La prima di queste è l'esclusione dall'abolizione dell'Ici di tutti gli immobili di categoria catastale A/1, A/8 e A/9: per case di prestigio, ville e dimore storiche non ci sono novità e continua ad applicarsi la precedente detrazione di 103,29 euro, o quella più elevata eventualmente prevista dal Comune.

and

Niente Ici per i residenti all'estero - Per i cittadini italiani residenti all'estero l'immobile posseduto a titolo di proprietà o di usufrutto in Italia, si considera sempre direttamente adibito ad abitazione principale a condizione che non risulti locato. Anche per chi non abita più in Italia, quindi, arriva l'abolizione dell'Ici.

and

Abolita la comunicazione Ici - Infine non bisogna dimenticare che è stata abolita la dichiarazione ICI per tutte le variazioni di proprietà eseguite a partire dal 1° gennaio 2008. Questo significa che in nessun Comune è più obbligatorio presentare la dichiarazione se si compra o si vende casa. In questo articolo altri dettagli

*
Regarding re-scheduling , pls see

[url=http://www.architettiroma.it/quaderni/testounico/consulenza/index.asp?pag=25]testo unico - consulenza on-line[/url]
> 4 dell'art. 37 D.P.R. 380/01,
> [url]http://www.unisi.it/did/dip-direcon/DPR%20380-2001.pdf[/url]
Art.37 punto 4 :
4. Ove l’intervento realizzato risulti conforme alla disciplina urbanistica ed edilizia vigente sia al momento della realizzazione dell’intervento, sia al momento della presentazione della domanda, il responsabile dell’abuso o il proprietario dell’immobile possono ottenere la sanatoria dell’intervento versando la somma, non superiore a 5.164 euro e non inferiore a 516 euro, stabilita dal responsabile del procedimento in relazione all’aumento di valore dell’immobile valutato dall’agenzia del territorio.

AND

Agenzia del territorio
[url=http://www.agenziaterritorio.it/?id=668]Agenzia del Territorio - Presentazione del servizio[/url]
"Il servizio è rivolto a coloro che riscontrano incoerenze nella situazione catastale dei propri immobili e consente di presentare via web richieste di rettifica dei dati catastali. "

i am sorry all documents are in Italia . Yet this is your's lifeinitaly :)

i would tend to follow barn elms cautious approach and also i would not purchase a property that was not classified in the correct manner.. with also all the new rules regarding habitable buildings and regulations concerning attachments of services you could find even if you manged to buy it than you could get no services...

all these properties should have had their designations changed... these sort of homes with other uses .... were supposed to be all re registered by the end of June last year... and been paying tax... their are serious estimates here that around 2 million properties are still missing from registers that are classified... illegally.... because of the law last June.... these are being sort out and owners are getting fined...

maybe ... and it is a maybe... casual work by people selling properties in Italy ... often without any knowledge ...as seen in this thread... had little to no effect on future progress with a property because of the lack of worries by the comune about the state of the property register... but that was all 2 to 3 years ago... there are changes going on here... in the property living accommodation sense... brush off easy answers by estate agents or agencies really have no place in the property market anymore... and the reason many of these properties are singled out for sale to foreign buyers is because they cannot be sold to Italians who would not accept vague wishy washey promises...

i would skip this and buy a house instead if i was you... most probably there are plenty around and hopefully you have not already paid any money over...

another answer often given when someone finds a cheap property is that they are all cheap because Italians do not buy outside towns or old house... this is a very very out of date statement as Italians all over Italy have been buying country homes for weekends and holidays for an awful long time now.... so to my mind really cheap buildings.. either have a seroius selling problem...which makes it unklikely an italian would get caught with it... or the area has seroius problems... no one gives property away in Italy...

the rules here in that sense are exactley the same as whatever country you come from... if it looks like too much of a bargain compared to other properties being sold in the area...or an area is too much of a bargain compared to a province say as a whole... then there is something wrong...

barn elms... you might well be interested in this thread... a shame maybe that you did not get to see it before... however we all get caught out and we all learn a bit from the process.. luckily there are those that are willing to highlight some practices... and own up to being caught out a bit... hopefully at the end of it all we mange to shrug off the bad taste left buy dealing with the sharks of the world and end up wuith soemthing we want and are proud of...

[URL]http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/property-sales-rental-advice/6828-just-read-some-blurb.html[/URL]

hi thanks for all your comments guys...indeed all my worries are what you mention....i would just walk away if the house wasnt so right:no:god dams it!hehe...does anyone know what ugo is saying in his italian message above...i have no idea!!:nah:bless him tho!
thank you sweet guys:yes:

[quote=estherina34;91894]hi guys,
we just been through a very drawn out process applying for an italian mortgage with GE bank in italy, only to be told that our house is listed as a warehouse on the registry papers,.................
.............................we are buying via 'housearounditaly.com' in avellino naples....................:[/quote]

I suggest that you tell the agent that you expect them to sort it out before you'll sign for the purchase. If they can't get it re-classified for habitation, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole [however wonderful it is] because of probable problems with mortgage, selling later on etc etc..

Good luck!

.

It really should be included somewhere in the advice column for first-time buyers or potential buyers, that just as important as the house, price, terms, etc. Rule #1 CHECK YOUR CADASTRAL CLASSIFICATION -- when we were looking our agent (totally fab, ethical, successful) was super-careful to only show us properties classified correctly, i.e., non-luxury and non-commercial. He carefully explained that classification would carry over into every aspect of home ownership, including property tax rates, utility rates, and a host of other bureaucratic potential nightmares. When questioned about changing the classification, his answer was, don't bother, it will be terribly expensive and require a "connected" geometra and perhaps soldi neri (graft) in some cases!! What a nightmare that would be, and why start if it can be so easily avoided?

I too find it hard to believe that people attempt to buy properties without carrying out the essential steps of any property search that any lawyer or even yourself can do.
Please make sure you ask for the following documents from any agent or seller prior to even considering a purchase :
[FONT=Arial]1) ATTO D'ACQUISTO O DI PROVENIENZA DELL'IMMOBILE (Atto di acquisto o Atto di Successione ecc.); This is the Title deed[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]2) DOCUMENTAZIONE CATASTALE (Estratto catastale di mappa, visure catastali e planimetrie catastali dell'immobile); These are the local council's planning departments existing paperwork regarding the building, ie building classification, location on map...this way you know what parts of the buildings have been officially approved and registered.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]3) CONCESSIONE EDILIZIA OPPURE D.I.A. OPPURE PERMESSO DI COSTRUIRE These are any council approved plans for any proposed building development or modifications like refurbishment or any extensions .[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]4) SE LA PROPRIETA' E' UNA SOCIETA: visura camerale;[/FONT]
If the seller is a company, this is to find out the details of the company.
[FONT=Arial]5) EVENTUALE DOCUMENTAZIONE ATTESTANTE LA STIPULA DI ATTI DI MUTUO SUGLI IMMOBILI. These documents find out if there is any existing mortgages or borrowings against the property.
[/FONT]

If a seller provides all the above you are over the first hurdle and you then know what you are buying, if they don't i'd suggest to walk away from that dream property which may just turn into one big nightmare.

So the advice is down to the perception of the reader?, I found Davids post useful and informative, perhaps your comments re smug and a deterrant were meant more generally?. And if so generalisations are never really helpful either.
A

this isnt helping guys...haha!...argue amoungst yourselves..:nah:

Dear Esther

I would agree with the advice of others here to be extremely wary. In order to apply to change the classification you will need to present an application to the Comune together with a project for the necessary works to be carried out to allow the property to change its status. Only a geometra/surveyor/architect can help you with this who has detailed knowledge of the structure itself and the local building regulations. Even once you have paid for their work, the Comune may reject your application and you may never be able to change the classification. Is is worth buying if there is this risk?

Charlotte Oliver

Ooh err all sounds a bit scary to me ,I think the FIRST thing to do is to employ an Italian lawyer working from the UK, paid for by the buyer. If he is any good he will give you a written estimate of costs before starting, accept no other arrangements - it aint cheap but peace of mind never was.

[quote=barn_elms;92036]It would be interesting to have a solicitor's opinion as to whether an Italian estate agent that advertises itself as UK based, simply through having registered offices in Scotland, is liable to comply with UK law as regards the Property Misdescriptions Act and any other similar legislation governing the ethical behaviour of estate agents.
I guess the next question is whether anyone knows what precise legal code of conduct Italian estate agents have to work to? Or isn't there one?![/quote]

I cannot remember all the details but I do remember there was a case reported here on the forum a while back where someone had successfully taken an Italian (Umbrian I think) based estate agent to court in the UK - one of the partners being English and I think the company was also registered in UK. Someone else may be able to fill in all the details, or it might come up in the search section.

Sorry this is so vague - but it may trigger something in someone elses memory who could give you more info!

[url]http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/property-sales-rental-advice/7905-truth-about-dubious-agents.html[/url]

Thank you patch 2277, I knew I had not imagined it!

in a sense an Italian estate agent is governed by a very strict set of rules laid down in the civil code on how they behave or not... they are also required to be members of a professional body ... either FIMAA [url=http://www.fimaa.it/]FIMAA - Federazione Italiana Mediatori Agenti d'Affari[/url]
or FiAIP [url=http://www.fiaip.it/]F.I.A.I.P. - Federazione Italiana Agenti Immobiliari Professionali[/url]
... and there is another i do believe which also have standards of practice... also required is the fact that you have to be registered with the Chamber of Commerce... again standards of practice and all documentation in the sense of contracts used should be registered with them as well again with codes of conduct ...

well that's all the theory part out of the way... practice... if a problem does occur

first refer all paperwork to their professional body...

refer paperwork to chamber of commerce... especially if its to do with fees ... but just get it all in... also if a receipt has never been issued get the tax people on them too... well at least threaten to

finally do not use any of the above but prepare the documents as if you would and let them see a copy... if they believe they have been caught out and your not such an idiot they might well refund or sort out problems for free...

if that does not work... again refrain from submitting your case to the authorities ...get a law firm/solicitor to go through your work...and they will then take it forward hopefully settling long before courts

without a solicitor and any other registered body to approach there is a sort of arbitration method and a local justice of peace route... but am not completely familiar in how that works... luckily have never used it... but basically when doing contracts on building works a clause referring disputes to them is generally included as they are supposed to be quicker and less costly..

saying that it was good to see the earlier thread referred to... i remember it and i know all the rules here about naming but really believe that if a court case has been won... then it could easily be reported here... and i would love to read the whole story... so if anyone knows it would be nice to know where i could read some more...

finally there are these pseudo professional European wide estate agent bodies... often listed as giving you protection and having standards... the only standard they give in my mind is a very high standard fee to be able to display their logo on your web site... i even see some law firms recommending only using firms with this sort of Kite-mark... its all just another load of rubbish to make you lower your guard

if you are properly registered here you have to have insurance to protect clients... always issued for estate agents via the professional bodies mentioned above... the European wide bodies would be even more useless to approach than the Italian national ones and have no legal status anyway

there is heaps of info on here about what to look out for and i have often mentioned easiest ones to give you early clues... for websites...a VAT number and an Address have to be displayed... The chamber of commerce registration has to be displayed... all contracts have to be registered and carry all company details as well and can only be signed by the actual registered mediator... IE you can go and look at properties with anyone... but only the person registered and qualified as the estate agent...really its a mediator is allowed to negotiate or advice on the details of the sale and to sign the documents...and finally to charge a percentage of the sale price for the work...

indeed...i had tomake a cuppa tea b4 i sat down to read that.:spinny:..bless you all...very sweet of you to give me all this free advice...xx:wubclub:
ps...am i the only blonde on here thats uses these smiley faces..ha x

[quote=estherina34;92065]...am i the only blonde on here thats uses these smiley faces..ha x[/quote]

Depends if you count bottle blonde as blonde or not. :laughs:

Serious posts? Me? Stop these terrible rumours immediately. :wideeyed:

:jiggy::Dancing_tongue::Dancing_biggrin::Dancing_jimlad::Dancing_wub:can u tell ive had a drink..i deserve it after this week!ha!xx

Just to correct the usually precise Adriatica.
it is not a requirement to be a member of FIMAA or FIAIP, as long as you are registered as an agent at the Camera di Commercio you can practise legally. However if you are not a member of one or the other you must have a separate insurance package - whereas you get indemnity insurance if you pay one of the professional bodies.

We too got ourselves into a tangle ( in our case over ownership of a particular part of the property).Won't wash our dirty linen in public but it took us 3 years to sort out.Fortunately all turned out for the best in our case but I would echo Barn Elms advice:

1) If you have not passed money over ,then do not.Whatever Italian law says it is very difficult and expensive to try to get it back

2) If you have paid a deposit,then don't panic but forget the renovation plans and dreams you have for the moment ,put in the back of your mind that the money may be lost,and focus exclusively on how to resolve the problem that you have.
Hope this doesn't sound too negative,but honestly believe one step at a time is the way to go and always be mentally prepared to walk away if necessary
Good luck