10082 returning to Uk

You are not alone in those thoughts...I noticed the same thing and I did not know whether it was wise or not to ask the reason for all these departures. But as you have done it and you are considering the move, let's hear what the others have to say. I am sure we all look forward to reading some interesting posts.

After roughly ten years in Italy, I "went back" to the UK for a couple of years in early 2000 thinking....I'm not really sure what! Perhaps that it would be easier, better, more opportunities??? I'd come from freelance illustration and imagined a more correct, constant, transparent work situation to be available in the UK (note I say..."I imagined" !!!).
But my life took a different direction and I happily returned to Italy in 2002.
In an ideal world I'd split my time between both countries. 50/50. I've given up the battle of which one is "best". Something that had been bothering me ever since I arrived in 1989.
There is no best, just different...which in a way is even harder still...because.
One country cannot "give me" what the other can. That's part of the problem but also part of the fun.
It would have been easier, say less complicated to have not wanted to live here...to have just been happy coming on holidays to see the relations....to have just had a keen interest, lived the life of every anglo-italian family in the UK and just "got on with it"...but hey some of us just have to go and complicate our lives ?!
But that's probably the best part of the run ;-)

Emilia
Thank you for sharing your experiences - that's really interesting to read.
I know that everyone would have different reasons for moving away 'from the nest' but it is reassuring to hear of other peoples thoughts on it.
Nowhere is ever going to be perfect and it is all a balancing act but if you don't experiment you will never know!! I hope I will make the rightish decision next year! My husband, on the other hand, is 100% certain but he has a stronger personality than me. Maybe it's because I'm a Libran??? it's those damn scales!.

Thanks again and best wishes
B

My boyfriend and I periodically consider leaving Italy - usually after a bad day at work. It's a serious consideration, because we're both early in our careers and need to think about saving a bit of money in the future, maybe for a family one day. That's impossible on our current earnings, we don't even break even yet.

But other than careers and finances, its hard to know why we would leave; it doesn't take us long to going back to adoring the place.

The saying of money isn't everything is quoted by people who have money!
It is such a shame that you are struggling to get along. Doing the same jobs in the UK - would you be better off? If your jobs are with UK companies would you be able to explain the situation and hopefully get a pay rise.

You obviously love it in Italy but what made you move? I know a couple who basically 'dropped out' to enjoy a more simpler lifestyle.
Hope things improve soon.
B
:smile:

I personally don't know anyone moving back to the UK as the few expats I'm friendly with have all been here for 10/15/20+ years, are either retired or running small businesses. They're settled. Occasionally, the ladies speculate as to what they'll do when/if hubby goes first but even then, amongst my crowd, we all feel we'd stay. And for most of us, it would be very hard to decide where we would go back to for we've been gone from the UK so long (I've been out 25 years now).
I think it really depends upon what made you move to Italy in the first place. If you came retired having known what you are coming to, perhaps having spent extended periods here before making the final move, you're possibly more likely to stay. Unless, of course, an overwhelming desire to be much closer to your family, grandchildren, etc. or possibly ill health forces you to return.
I happily stand corrected but unless you work in Milan or elsewhere in the north, I'm not sure Italy's the easiest country to enjoy a successful, lucrative professional career. And even with a good cash cushion to see you through the first few years, setting up something tourist or farm related in the countryside can be extremely hard work.
I think when you look back and reflect on the manic rush to move abroad (a lot of which was fuelled by the media) in the early 2000s, I think it's hardly surprising that a sizeable proportion of the new arrivals have a change of heart and decide to go "home".

Borrini, I'm married to a Libran so I do know something about those scales! I think that perhaps it's better to not be 100% certain about anything....as...if one is....you could be in for a big let down. Best to be 75% sure...so keep those scales unbalanced :-)

I do agree with Violetta. For everyone in the "rest" of Italy, other than Milan finding "normal" work on equal grounds to an italian is pretty much impossible. Let alone career advancements.

Many many years ago, anothe anglo-italian friend of mine (who lives in the UK) told me she felt that the Italian workplace was verging on third world standards. I hotly defended the country that I'd chosen to live in... but :-) I now think that on the "work" front...she was spot on!

[quote=borrini;93794]I have read of a few people recently returning to the UK from Italy and wondered if anyone on here has done that and would like to say why?
I am quite sure that is happening all the time, just that I have noticed with being interested in moving there myself.

:smile:[/quote]

We are amongst those people that you refer to that are returning to the UK after 6 years living here in Italy..on the coast in a wonderful spot overlooking Portofino and Santa Margherita in Liguria..
There is no'one'reason why we are leaving, just the same as there was no 'one' reason we decided to come to live here.
If I had to try to explain to someone considering a permanent move to Italy the real facts of life here I would say this;
Think hard about the area in which you choose to live.Our only experience is here in an area comprising mainly of second homes for well-off Milanese people. They are generally very reserved and do not socialise even with each other, let alone with people of other countries, so do not expect to be invited to your neighbour's next barbecue.
Secondly, if like us, you rely as your sole income on a pension or investments paid in sterling, then the existing, and I think, permanent weakness of the pound against the euro is a worry. For example, since we arrived here in mid 2002 we have seen our real income reduced by 25%, at the same time as inflation has increased our costs. The plus side of this is that it is a perfect time to cash in on the property price increases here the past 5 years or so, in our case 300%, and convert back to sterling at almost 80p per euro.
Thirdly, our biggest disappointment here in our part of Italy at least is the poor quality of food and service, together with total lack of variety, in restaurants. The idea that Italians are the best cooks in the world is a myth!
Having said these things we have thoroughly enjoyed our 6 years here in Italy, because all we wanted was a relaxing holiday in a sunny climate with no stress, and to that end we are satisfied, but now we have decided to exchange our Italian suntans for a bit of British rust, and we can't wait for the 15th August until we get on that plane back.
So, for what it's worth, these are some of our reasons for returning.
Alanj

Thank you so much for your message, Alanj, it would be an eye-opener for many people considering a move to Italy.
What you say about the choice of the place where you settle is absolutely correct. We know very well your area around Portofino - Santa Margherita as we frequently go there and it is just as you describe, a beauty but perhaps not the best place to settle as you are surrounded by second residences. I also agree about the quality of the food, very poor as it is prepared for massive tourism. We have been quietly walking in Portofino and then, two seconds later, we were pushed by hordes of tourists landing. We always make a lunch stop at Portofino just to enjoy the place on our trips backwards and forwards, but we go there just to look at the seascape... the food is not a priority.... we usually have an omelette with salad as we have discovered that it is the best thing they do.....
Given your reasons, I am sure that you are making the right move. Besides, we need to have changes in our lives, they do a lot of good.
Best wishes and keep in touch as your experience is valuable to all of us.

Thank you alanj for being so honest. Certainly is food for thought! Near to the area we have earmarked as well.
As far as the food goes we have found even in areas where there are no tourists at all the food can be absolutely rubbish. It's like in Britain you can visit an area and if you don't know where to go you end up with all microwaved stuff that is tasteless and far too expensive!
On the exchange rate - that is something that we will be looking into very carefully - I said in a previous post that we need to do a lot of 'number crunching' and it is just that. If we had joined the euro things would have been a whole lot different.
Rather sad that the locals, or more so the 'weekenders', didn't want to mix. Do you and your wife speak Italian?
We haven't made any committments yet but your reply has certainly given us more to consider.
Thanks again and good luck for the future.
PS. When you have settled back here let me know how you feel then.
Kind regards

We are also returning to the UK. I look out at the beautiful view of the sea, and mountains, My beautiful villa , I will never, ever again have such a house ( unless I win the lottery). I listen to the crickets singing away in my woods, and see the lovely birds, and butterflies. My husband arrives with fresh buffalo mozzerella, lovely tomatoes, my neighbour brings me free range eggs.
Why would I want to leave? I look at my husband, and see how depressed he is, how much he misses England and all his friends ( he is Italian born & bred).
He had hoped that things had changed red tape wise but nothing has changed since he left Italy when he was a teenager.
I go into the commune, and see the staff swaggering around like little Benito Mussolinis, I see the public who voted them in, almost bowing to these ignoramous morons. I see the paperwork, for everything, mounds and mounds of it. It takes hours, days , weeks to conclude something so simple.
I am treated like a leper by the postwoman, post office clerk, the girl in the supermarket etc etc..... I am fed up now of being poilte to these people and unfortunately just do what I have to do and go....
Social life does not happen here, all our Italian friends work until 9pm and then they are so tired, just go home eat and go to bed. It would appear that the only time they have any social life whatsoever is on a "Festa" day. Or their annual holiday.
I am certain that in other parts of Italy ( We lived in Milano many years ago and had a lot of friends) there is a good social life, but here in Basilicata NO. !!!
So, it is important you know what you are getting into before you buy.
Also, it is not cheap to live here, and all the Italians I meet tell me that they are just managing to live , and these are professional people. People who have a career, or a small business.
At least there is always someone round for dinner in the UK, or we are invited out to friends. We are taking a chance and goingback to a small two bed apartment. There are so many good things that happen here but we are so scared for the future, in Basilicata if someone dies they have to be buried within 24 hours. This worries our kids, if we died we would probably be in the ground before they could get here.
Pjay:no:

pjay, I do hope that you, your discontented husband and all those heading back to the UK in search of greater happiness find it there. However…

I’ve said before in discussions of this sort that it seems to me that one is very likely to be constantly disappointed if they believe their happiness will be assured if only they find the right spot on the globe to occupy. It also seems to me that there’s less likely to be a positive outcome if one moves away from somewhere for negative reasons rather than to a place for positive reasons.

In Britain, there are constant complaints about the escalating costs of living, plenty of obnoxious sales clerks, many politicians with inflated views of their importance, no lack of bureaucracy and no shortage of forms to fill in if you want to do anything really serious – like add a conservatory to your house so you can pretend you live somewhere with a climate decent enough to allow you to sit outside :bigergrin:. Discussions about why people left the UK to live in Italy throw up many expressions of exasperation and annoyance about how things are there, so it clearly hasn’t become heaven in the few years since now-returning expats first left.

Selling up and leaving Italy seems to me entirely sensible if it’s done due to practical considerations or because it makes financial sense and that’s the most important consideration for you at this point, but just as I question the wisdom of those living in Britain who believe that they would be blissfully happy if only they lived in Italy permanently because it’s paradise on earth, so I must question whether those who live in Italy and are miserable will be made joyful just by buying a poky flat back in Blighty (or even what passes for a decent-sized house there).

Allan

I've lived in - gosh, I have to work this out - five different countries since I left England and I always remember what a 30+ years abroad expat woman said to me when I first moved overseas, "it's not the place, it's the people". And she was right too for when I look back on our various postings, it's the people that make wherever we've been. And it's the people that help you through the inevitable black periods, problem days, the "why on earth did we come here?" weeks. Oddly, we live in a village that is hugely popular with weekending Romans, the atmosphere changes quite dramatically mid Friday afternoon when they all arrive. But they're the nicest crowd and right from day one we were invited to drinks parties, lunches and now regularly dine out on Friday or Saturday evenings with various groups. Yes, we do speak fairly good Italian but many of our weekending neighbours have more than adequate English. Such a shame your Milanese in Liguria are not as gregarious.

Seems it isn't only individuals abandoning il bel paese.

"The retail group Kingfisher has signed a binding agreement to sell its Castorama Italy chain to Groupe Adeo, a French-based DIY and hardware group that operates across nine countries and last year generated turnover of €9 billion."

[url=http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/retailing/article4441396.ece]Kingfisher off-loads Italian arm for €560m - Times Online[/url] if you want to read the whole story

[quote=borrini;94097]Thank you alanj for being so honest. Certainly is food for thought! Near to the area we have earmarked as well.
As far as the food goes we have found even in areas where there are no tourists at all the food can be absolutely rubbish. It's like in Britain you can visit an area and if you don't know where to go you end up with all microwaved stuff that is tasteless and far too expensive!
On the exchange rate - that is something that we will be looking into very carefully - I said in a previous post that we need to do a lot of 'number crunching' and it is just that. If we had joined the euro things would have been a whole lot different.
Rather sad that the locals, or more so the 'weekenders', didn't want to mix. Do you and your wife speak Italian?
We haven't made any committments yet but your reply has certainly given us more to consider.
Thanks again and good luck for the future.
PS. When you have settled back here let me know how you feel then.
Kind regards[/quote]

Thanks for your good wishes and I certainly will let you know how we get on back in the UK.
To answer your question about the language, my wife had been visiting Italy for a number of years on holidays, and being pretty good at picking up languages, she speaks Italian well. I on the other hand haven't mastered it...in fact I'm rubbish! But even she becomes frustrated when certain local people, usually unsympathetic shop assistants, seem determined not to understand her, just because her pronunciation of a particular word may not be perfect, whilst she can have a long pleasant conversation with an Italian friend. So, be prepared to have to 'bite your tongue' on occasions. I did make a determined effort when we arrived here six years ago, to the extent that I took up a private course in Italian language, but I became dissillusioned when people were not prepared to make allowances for my difficiencies. Maybe again this is a reflection of this region of Italy.
On a more positive note, our experience of the people who run our commune of Zoagli has been wonderful and welcoming...from the local policewoman who vetted us for resident status when we first arrived, to our Mayor, Franco Rossi, who married us, to the lovely young lady Sarah who helped us with her translations of difficult documents, our post lady, and not forgetting the Commune geometra who dealt with some planning issues we had..we have nothing but praise for them. So again, I suppose it comes down to the area in which you choose to live. Other member's experiences of their local officials have been the complete opposite of ours.
So again, for what it's worth, this is our experience of life in Italy. As you will see from other posts, everyone has a different tale to tell. 'C'est la vie' as they say in that other language that I never mastered!
Alanj

Sorry that life in Italy hasnt worked out for you.

We've been to different parts of Italy and know Brits living in different parts too and I've concluded that Abruzzo must be one of the 'best' regions for Brits to live in.
As we have virtually no tourism locals restaurants serve fantastic value fresh food and local shops and bars are delighted to see you and make you feel very welcome.

Our neighbours pass us at least 10 times a day and either stop to chat from the car window or pursue us in the the house!Even though my partner speaks no Italian they still persist in chatting away!!

You mentioned the unfriendliness of Post man.,staff in Municipio etc. Our Post woman too is a misery who prefers dogs to people but she is miserable to eveyone not just us!!! The municipio is just a pain in the .... .Its a job for life and you can be as rude as you want !! Believe you me its not just Brits who are at the recieving end of their jackboots!

BUT other 'ordinary' folk are fantastic.We have made 'friends' at the builders merchant, shop selling lotto tickets, pizzeria etc.Not something I can report from the uk.
So dont move to the UK try Abruzzo!

We haven't experienced problems in Bagni di Lucca. The neighbours, all Italian, are delightful and friendly. Our local bar and coffee shop greets us with big smiles and prepares whatever we want, according to the hour of the day, without even having to ask for it. They invited us to the opening of their new "osteria" and, since we were unable to attend because we were travelling back on that day, surprised us with a plate full of goodies to sample so that we would not miss on the celebrations. The shops, post office, comune, etc. are all very kind and friendly. But obviously, it is not the same case throughout Italy..... A pity!

Just to add a funny footnote to my comments about the unsociable 'second-homers' from Milan, last week we met the Italian couple who are buying our house. As his car had a Milan registration plate I assumed, not unreasonably I thought, that he was a Milanese, so in the course of conversation I mentioned that the majority of owners on the condominium were from Milan. His face dropped and said " I don't like Milanese, I'm from Genova!"
Oops. Just as well they had already paid the deposit!
Alan j

[quote=borrini;94014]The saying of money isn't everything is quoted by people who have money!
It is such a shame that you are struggling to get along. Doing the same jobs in the UK - would you be better off? If your jobs are with UK companies would you be able to explain the situation and hopefully get a pay rise.

You obviously love it in Italy but what made you move? I know a couple who basically 'dropped out' to enjoy a more simpler lifestyle.
Hope things improve soon.
B
:smile:[/quote]

Thanks for the encouragement Borrini!
We moved here for adventure, and a change from the London daily grind - both of which we've found.
I was freelancing for the UK, but then we bought our house, having first checked it was in a broadband area, and have been waiting for the 9 months since for Telecom Italia to give us a phone line - still no sign. :eeeek: (Before anyone asks, we have tried [I]everything[/I] to get things moved forward!) To cut a long story short, I've been unable to work much since. My clients have said, "great work, but too much hassle communicating, call us when you get a phone".
At least I've made good use of the time getting my face known in the relevant circuits here, as well as little projects like the Abruzzan English-language newsletter. :smile:
My boyfriend had a public sector job in London, in a field that doesn't exist in Italy. He doens't have good written Italian, so couldn't go to an office anyway. After a year of unemployment and confidence-bashing, a friend recommended him to some electricians, where he now works. But he gets a trainee, school-leavers wage for the first 3 years til he qualifies. His hourly rate wouldn't be legal (even for a school-leaver) in the UK.
We got a gas bill for E800 a couple of days ago. Although it was conguaglio, and therefore not just for one month, it did amount to a third of our salaries. Just for gas.
I love it here, it's so much healthier than UK culture, in every sense of the word. I can't bear the thought of leaving (my old job is still open to me), but our debts are mounting.

I second My Abruzzo Home's thoughts - we've lived in different parts of Italy but are happiest here in Abruzzo where the people are fab. We've got great friends here, and a good social life with both Italians and expats. As for the food - it's the best I've eaten in my life. Without a doubt.

Stick with it tuesday girl!!

You'll be ok in the end meanwhile do what we are doing cut back on everything so you don't get anymore big bills even if it means wearing jumpers in bed; In a few years you can both laugh about it and you'll still be in Italy!

We, too, are returning to the UK. I came back a year ago with our two daughters whereas Martin has struggled on for a year (with lots of to-ing and fro-ing) and has now decided to give in and come back. We`ve loved our life in Italy - with a few provisos, such as the bureaucracy etc. The only reason we`ve decided to come back is so that our daughters (aged 14 and 15) can get a `serious` education and some UK qualifications. We`re hoping to be able to keep our home in Italy (we no longer have a house in the UK) and to be able to return at some point. However, we probably won`t try to work and earn a living in Italy again - for those contemplating coming to Italy to work, whoever said that it`s really difficult unless you work in Milan or some other northern city, is absolutely right. It`s difficult, even for a professional.

The food in Puglia is fantastic, the people are, on the whole, really friendly - we have more friends in Puglia than in the UK. Some of our friends we knew before we moved to the area and are like family to us and we speak regularly on the phone (thank you, Skype). We even have some very nice `ex-pat` friends too! The way of life is great (as long as you have a reasonable amount of money - it is seriously tough for locals who don`t earn much). I think I agree with a previous writer who said that the ideal would be to spend 50% of time in the UK and 50% in Italy - it would be great to have the best of both worlds. Another worry I had in the back of my mind was what our daughters would do when they were grown up - there really aren`t many opportunities for youngsters in Puglia. However, we`ve had a great time and still feel tied to the area. My kids are totally fluent in Italian, after 3 years in mainstream Italian school, and are now studying French and Spanish (as well as continuing Latin which was started in Italy), having discovered how good it is to speak another language and having lost their inhibitions in speaking. So, all in all, it`s been good for them as well as us. Good luck to all the other `returners`. :bigergrin:

Thank you once again for such a useful post. I always worry when I read that someone is moving to Italy without even thinking at the important step they are taking. Your post will help many of them.
You tried and you did your best, it did not work the way you thought, but I am certain that it was a very valuable and enriching experience for the whole family. I have no doubts that your girls have gained a lot from their years in Italy and that this will help them in their future life. We also moved with two young girls to a totally different country and now they are two very successful women with a much better understanding of the world in which we live.
I am sure that you will enjoy future stays in Italy where you will visit all your friends and you will always be welcomed by them.
It hurts a bit at this stage but everything will be fine!
Best wishes,

Smiths - thanks for the honest and open post - it's nice to know not everything is as sickly sweet as some would like to make out. I get tired of reading how wonderful everything is all the bloody time.

Having read this thread, I think that the people that have decided to go back, are probably braver then people coming here.
At least when your planning your move out here, you can have a case of the "rose tinted glasses", but going back, no such luxury.
I remember 5 years ago, sitting in our garden in Slough, cars whizzing past out front, trains whizzing past out back, planes whizzing overhead, not knowing your neighbor from 2 doors away, and thinking, jeez theirs got to be a better life.
We have found that better life, we are still as poor as we were then ( LOL) still have the same problems with the powers that be, ( but at least you can talk to them over a coffee ). Still moan about the weather (no rain for 3 weeks ).
But where else would I want to be.........nowhere!

My hat is off to all those that are going..........your a braver man then I .
Good luck to all.

We came here for work (of all reasons!) seven years ago. I think we had some very lucky breaks in finding a place to live, getting residency easily etc, but I just wanted to comment on previous posts about work in Italy. Most of our expat friends here work (rather than being retired) and, without exception, all have had to adapt / change jobs to survive. It is possible to live on an Italian salary, but many people we know have also found other ways of making money. The more multi-skilled and adaptable you are, the greater your chances of success - but I imagine this is the same wherever you are.

We've never had a fall-back position, such as a house or a job waiting for us in the UK, so if we don't make it work here, we'll have to make it work somewhere else. But I think it would be much, much harder if we had children to think about as well.

A very honest and helpful post, English teacher. It will help people to see things more clearly.

Good luck to all those who do make the difficult decision to return to the UK - and good luck also to all those who opt to stay despite/in spite of the various difficulties mentioned.

I really wish those who are moving back all the very best and i hope you all get settled quickly and will have friends and family to help. :smile:
It is interesting to read on the forum all the pro's and con's about living in Italy especially as I contemplate a permanent move there in the early spring. :eeeek:
Was there ever a thread about why people were moving/moved to Italy?

[quote=IRITALIA;94581]I really wish those who are moving back all the very best and i hope you all get settled quickly and will have friends and family to help. :smile:
It is interesting to read on the forum all the pro's and con's about living in Italy especially as I contemplate a permanent move there in the early spring. :eeeek:
Was there ever a thread about why people were moving/moved to Italy?[/quote]

Not entirely, not that I could remember or find. There were some individual threads indicating that they were moving to Italy, but not a general one with all the pros and cons. Here is a sample of what I found:

[url]http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/general-chat-about-italy/9532-what-advice-would-you-give.html[/url]

I think that it would be an excellent idea and a thread that we could keep on running for a long time. Anyone volunteering to organise it?

I have just read this thread pages 1 to 4 and am somewhat choked and truly moved by the openess and honesty of the commentators. We have retired and at staggering expense, have restored a casa colonica and cowshed, so have two houses. We hope to remain in Italy but we are asked "if you had the choice would you still have paying guests?" I answer, me yes, my husband no. I say yes, because with every guest my eyes are opened to how very fortunate I am. We speak Italian quite well. We live in rural Umbria, surrounded by so much natural beauty and we are so very close to a picturesque hill top village full of friendly people.
I would ask a similar question to those returning to England...if you really could choose..would you return? Often there is no choice. It just has to be done. The worst reason of all.
The saddest case I know of, is of an English couple who retired and restored a house out in the Umbrian countryside, close to a road. Their house was robbed about 8 times and then the thieves started to take the garden stuff. The Comune and Regione were less than helpful when they applied to place a high fence and gate around their property. Their dream of la dolce vita, was shattered by a group of Albanians who were caught, quite by chance. Despite this they did not loose out financially, having a very attractive house to sell but it left a bitter taste.
Italy is not the place to find a job but to live, simply but well. Speaking the language is essential. The person you come with must be your very dependable, best friend and both of you must be prepared to roll up your sleeves and get stuck in. Perhaps there will never be enough money, no matter who or where ever you are, but for us the scenery is far more beautiful in Umbria and we can hardly bare to leave it, even for a few days.

Volunteers?
Why is everyone looking in your direction Gala? :eeeek: :bigergrin:

I would like to sincerely thank everyone who has replied to my question for being so open and honest.
For someone who is considering the move it is very interesting to see how other peoople have got on.
For the younger people who obviously need to work it is apparant that it is not easy to compete in the job market with local people.
I think that the majority of people on this forum are living in rural areas rather than large cities or even towns. Even moving in England to rural villages it is difficult to get work locally and there is the question of fitting in. Some people live there for years and are still classed as 'incomers'.
Moving anywhere away from your family and friends is a big adventure, moving abroad is just the same, only it is just a bit bigger adventure. You could move to another county and if it doesn't work out you feel you need to move back. Going back to the UK is just the same. It is not a failure in any way - just another chapter in your life. I live in a retirement area and people move here for a nicer quality of life but it doesn't always work out. Some people miss their children and grandchildren so much they have to move back to London or whereever.
Some people go through life and never try anything new - what a dull life!
Nowhere is perfect - we all just have to find where we feel comfortable and happy.
To all those returning I wish you good luck for the future and thank you again for posting your reasons.
:smile:

Re Gala's suggestion - I feel another post coming up!

My advice to anyone moving permanently here, to first rent for at least 3 months in the area in which they want to buy. Do not spend too much money on the restoration and fittings, there are only certain areas where you will get back your money should you ever want to sell.
We thought we had come forever and so, now find that we are well and truly out of pocket.
Since 2006 we have been living 50/50 in the UK and here. Someone said what a wonderful life. It isn't, costs a fortune back and forth, we drive to Rome then get the overnight ferry to Toulone, as it is dark by 4pm when we go back, we stay in a small town, then on to Nuits St Georges, the next day St Quentin, and so, on and so on. You can also bet your life the garment or cooking utensil which you have spend an hour searching for is in a cupboard in the UK or visa-versa in Italy.
I also find that I can not commit to anything long term either in Italy or the UK, for example, a course, or voluntary work in the UK. Also I cannot have a dog.
Consider your family and friends, it is such a long journey for them to come to us, and some have small children, and the trains are not good for babies & toddlers. So, it is important that they are able to reach you without too much hassle. Our nearest airport is Naples, as not many planes come into La Mezie Terme. So unless we arrange a car for them 400 euros, then they must come by train.
Also find out all the costs for Enel, Gas. Water , and remember all the hidden costs even when your house in finished, and the architect and geometre have been paid. You will be charged so much per room, plus, other charges. Every room is counted , bathroom, lobby, entrance hall etc etc.....Try to keep an eye on all costs, watch for them leaving a job unfinished..............someone else will have to do this and "someone else" wants money.
I wish someone had warned us.
We lived near the Thames in a lovely area so, we were not escaping, just thought it would be lovely to wake up to sunshine, and have a quieter life, however, we did not want to be this quiet.
No one is the same or likes the same things, but be aware of things before you part with your money. Thank goodness we were in a position to go back and buy an apartment, I feel so sorry for the couple who were robbed and robbed, they have probably worked hard all their lives, and to finish up in this situation must be terrible. I only hope they can recover from all this.
Pjay:no:

IRITALIA asked for Volunteers, well as After Hanibal by Barry Unsworth should be required reading, in Umbria at least (where he wrote it and found the characters) it seems appropriate to read his views, as an expat who chooses to live in Italy. See [url=http://www.kwls.org/lit/kwls_blog/2008/06/intensity_of_ilusiona_conversa.cfm]Intensity of Illusion:a conversation with Barry Unsworth - Littoral: the blog of the Key West Literary Seminar[/url]

[quote=IRITALIA;94592]Volunteers?
Why is everyone looking in your direction Gala? :eeeek: :bigergrin:[/quote]

Fortunately, borrini started the new thread... He saved my life!!!!:yes:

[quote=Noble;94591]I have just read this thread pages 1 to 4 and am somewhat choked and truly moved by the openess and honesty of the commentators. We have retired and at staggering expense, have restored a casa colonica and cowshed, so have two houses. We hope to remain in Italy but we are asked "if you had the choice would you still have paying guests?" I answer, me yes, my husband no. I say yes, because with every guest my eyes are opened to how very fortunate I am. We speak Italian quite well. We live in rural Umbria, surrounded by so much natural beauty and we are so very close to a picturesque hill top village full of friendly people.
I would ask a similar question to those returning to England...if you really could choose..would you return? Often there is no choice. It just has to be done. The worst reason of all.
The saddest case I know of, is of an English couple who retired and restored a house out in the Umbrian countryside, close to a road. Their house was robbed about 8 times and then the thieves started to take the garden stuff. The Comune and Regione were less than helpful when they applied to place a high fence and gate around their property. Their dream of la dolce vita, was shattered by a group of Albanians who were caught, quite by chance. Despite this they did not loose out financially, having a very attractive house to sell but it left a bitter taste.
Italy is not the place to find a job but to live, simply but well. Speaking the language is essential. The person you come with must be your very dependable, best friend and both of you must be prepared to roll up your sleeves and get stuck in. Perhaps there will never be enough money, no matter who or where ever you are, but for us the scenery is far more beautiful in Umbria and we can hardly bare to leave it, even for a few days.[/quote]

In answer to your question 'if you really could choose...would you return?'. In our case, we really could choose..and yes, we are returning.
I can understand everyone who has posted and has told us that they are returning reluctantly. But in our case, and I am sure in many other's too, we simply fancy a change. Nothing has to be forever these days, particularly when choosing to move within Europe. It really is 'horses for courses'. We have lived in three different countries in the last 15 years and have enjoyed every single one of them, and although we have to decided to return to the UK for now, who knows what we shall decide to do in the next 5 years.
Even within the UK, some people are happy living in the same house for most of their lives whilst others choose to keep on the move. It is a fact of life here at the moment that the strength of the euro disadvantages anyone receiving their income in sterling, just as it is a fact of life that the weather in the UK is on the whole rubbish, but these are just parts of the bigger picture in which we all have to weigh up the pro's and cons of living anywhere.
The most common reaction amongst our friends back in the UK who know we are returning is...you must be mad! Our reply is..you must be mad for not having tried it!
Alanj

I have just returned back to the UK after three weeks at my home in Italy in the Abruzzo/Lazio/Molise National Park. I had tears about leaving on Wednesday as my heart is truly in Italy. I want to move over permanently but cannot do so until my business has been sold in the UK.

I have noticed prices have risen in the last year in Italy and with the Euro/£ rate not favourable makes shopping even more expensive but in turn, prices have rocketed in the UK, including fuel, electric, gas etc., so no worse than in Italy or anywhere else for that fact.

But the things that draw me to Italy is the sheer friendliness of people towards me over there. After only a year I have made so many friends, so many aquaintances. I don;t think a day has gone past when I have gone into the town and haven't been greeted by someone who remembers my name, asks about me, my life, my family, making me feel so "wanted". My village of 43 people had their Festa the weekend of 18th July and I really felt part of it all even though it was my first - because not only were my neighbours so friendly but their families and friends from other villages have been introduced to us and we just seemed to know so many people. I have lived in my village in the UK for 19 years and still hardly know a soul. I am the same person here and in Italy so why is this so?

We live in an area with very little tourism (this time of the year quite a few Irish/Italian and Scottish/Italians visit their families here) which we love. We are the only English people in the area. There is no yob culture, or at least I haven;t seen it. Whilst there I was directed into a parking place by three delightful 14/15 year olds who were concerned because I was driving a right hand drive car and maybe I couldn't see. When I go shopping, whether for fruit and veg or household items in the local shop I nearly always am given a gift of extra fruit, or like last week, three pairs of ankle socks for my granddaughter.

In turn I am still waiting for my Codice Fiscale card after 15 months. Residencia for my husband may take forever but there is a lady in the Commune who is helping him through it.
But I am extremely impressed with the fact I had a fabulous kitchen installed, electric and plumbing done, tiling done and all completed within 5 weeks of actually seeing the said kitchen in the show room. So some things do work. But we did wait five months for our mosquito blinds!
We will be working when I move over there. Our intention is to run B&B art holidays, me teaching glass making as one of the subjects. We know we will be busy doing this, we won't make huge money doing this, but art is our life anyway so we will be living/doing something we adore. We have a "plan" for the next 10 years and hopefully we will fulfill it but who knows what is around the corner.

I have lived in Cyprus, Belgium, France and Denmark over the last 40 years. I disliked living in Belgium whereas I have heard of people loving living there. It is what you make of your life whilst in that country and I found bringing up a new baby, living in a flat on the outskirts of Liege was just horrible. That was my opinion and I couldn't wait to return to the UK.

An elderly couple who live 50/50 in Ireland and Italy told my husband and I when we first bought our house in October 2006 - "you must come to live in Italy with a vision". We took those words on board, we will continue to heed those words.

Sorry this is all so long winded - I just got carried away.

I wish all those returning to the UK every good wish for their futures.
Maralyn

What a fascinating thread. I hope someone from the magazine picks up on this and turns it in to a fully fledged article for there's wealth of information here for the prospective mover to Italy with so many invaluable first hand experiences.
One comment I'd like to pick up on though is with regard to checking out the place first. Certainly rent first, absolutely imperative, but you really should do this for a bit more than 3 months and ideally include the period from October/April. And it's often the easiest time to take a long term rental too as many holiday home owners will be delighted to have a paying tenant looking after their house during the worst winter months.
Seeing where you plan to live truly out of season is seeing it "warts and all". I often have friends to stay from London during the winter for a birthday or just short need-to-get-away break and they all comment on how cold it is here. Had a houseful at Easter and they couldn't believe the snow and gale force winds we had to endure. Sure, the winter is sometimes short, sure it's not damp and grey as it is in parts of Britain and there are, certainly a disproportionately high number of bright, clear sunny (but freezing cold) days. But, still, it's not tropical and a frightening number of people, even supposedly well prepared people, completely overlook this.
Then you add in the cost of heating your possibly huge house. Those of you who know me will remember it's one of the reasons we moved from our middle of nowhere farm house to centro storico when we decided to live here permanently. And talking of middle of nowhere farms, I so sympathise with the people down the road in Umbria who were burgled repeatedly. It's far, far more common than most people are prepared to admit. (It's virtually reached epidemic proportions in some parts of this region.) And, again, that remote, great value country cottage may be oh so tempting on a fine summer's morning, but see it again during a month of winter rain and it could be depressing beyond words.
Not everyone is in a position to do this but, if you are, it may be worth considering hanging on to the UK house, maybe even the UK job too. I read somewhere recently that a growing number of companies are allowing gap years to 40 and 50 somethings. Give it a year in Italy, renting, and then make the decision. Not guaranteed that you won't later change your mind or that circumstances change it for you but if you do want or need to return, it may be slightly less painful. V

Violetta, I totally agree about spending time in the winter months in Italy - or any country for that matter - because the "buzz" is so different in the different seasons and winter has an extremely quiet buzz.
Ron and I have spent lots of time at my brother's house on the next mountain to us, and mainly in the winter. In fact we had never spent an August there until last year. So we actually saw the worst of the weather however it is nowhere near as cold where we are by the sound of it compared to further north. Seemingly we very rarely get snow and hardly any frost but this past winter, as we don't have central heating installed yet, (getting it done very soon) the inside of our house was MINUS 4C and outside was plus 6C!! But once we got the log fires burning and warmed up the house, it was really lovely.
maralyn

I must agree that a longer rental period would be ideal. Unfortunately, some people would be unable to get so much time off, if they were still in full time employment ( as I was ).
I also think like you ,that you should see the property on a dull day out of season. All our UK friends seem to think that Italy is drenched in permanent 365 days sunshine.
It is very cold here in winter, and the storms are very frequent. We brought an old garden bench out with us,( takes two strong men to lift it ), this was blown from one end of the patio to the other, one night, and when it rains , it reminds me of the monsoons in south-east Asia.
However, if a good log fire is burning, and the house is warm, it is very cosy.
Another tip is to shop around, we left almost everything to the project manager, and of course paid top prices. Come out yourself and speak to the locals, they will even take you to the dealers, we unfortunately found all this out too late.
Pjay:wideeyed: