10186 New kitchen - Cooker advice

Hi Nicola
We have a UK bought double oven, which is rated higher then local bought ones, our electrician told us the lights would dim in the local town if we put them both on.but everything runs OK on 6kw.

Nicola I will send you a PM re the range cooker. Mad keen cooks and dear friends, got a superb range cooker at a bargain price in southern Umbria and had it taken to Calabria! Other friends even installed an AGA, no expense spared. . ...madness. TWO ELECTRIC OVENS??????? You may well regret that decision but one gas oven and one electric oven works fine if you have 11 kw of electricity or more.

I agree with Noble, you may regret installing two electric ovens. My kitchen is rather small and I have city gas, so I opted for a stove combining gas with an electric oven. You may go then for a full gas cooker and have an extra electric oven, say a wall oven. We bought a "Zoppas" stove and we are quite happy with it. Here you have some details:

[url=http://www.zoppas.it/node81.asp?CatID=175]Scegli il tuo prodotto Zoppas[/url]

Hi All
We have 2 kitchens, one for us , a double electric oven, and a single plus micro in Mums...........all work fine on 6kw..........:yes:

Are these standard size ovens RD&M? I wonder how powerful they are? Mine's a Smeg and somewhere it indicates what kw it takes. If we had but 6kw of electricity I could not use some other electrical equipment, certainly couldn't iron and bake a cake.

Sorry noble
But I have 2 great pie makers in the house, so the ovens are on most of the time, the double oven is a smeg as well.............like I said before .........they are UK rated......so higher then Italian or the ones from Euronics etc ..............PS we dont do ironing,,,,,,,we done gone native LOL

Hi Thanks all for all the advice. Still investigating all the possibilities you have suggested will let you know how I get on. At the end of the day all I want is a cooker (does not have to be particularly posh don't care if it elect. or gas) that enables me to cook a meal for 6 or more on the odd occasion we have people for supper and cope with a family christmas lunch, but is economical to use for the 90% of the year when it is just us!

Thanks all again this Forum has been so useful Nicola

[quote=Nicola D;94779]................. At the end of the day all I want is a cooker ............ that enables me to cook a meal for 6 or more on the odd occasion we have people for supper and cope with a family christmas lunch, but is economical to use for the 90% of the year when it is just us! ..........................[/quote]

It sounds to me like you need a fan oven cooker [standard 'Italian type, from any kitchen outlet], and a gas hob, [again, standard 'Italian type, from any kitchen outlet], plus a microwave -

It does for us [I cooked a New Years Eve evening meal for 8 a few years ago], and all on the standard 3kW supply!

.

[quote=deborahandricky;94769]Sorry noble
But I have 2 great pie makers in the house, so the ovens are on most of the time, the double oven is a smeg as well.............like I said before .........they are UK rated......so higher then Italian or the ones from Euronics etc ..............PS we dont do ironing,,,,,,,we done gone native LOL[/quote]

That's gone native Marchigiana style I assume?
Around our part of Umbria the female natives iron underpants and socks...oh and creases down their son's Jeans ...I kid you not.

To say a bit more about ovens...our Smeg gas fan oven cooks well but our Candy oven, no fan, (it's in our smaller house) cooks at a lower temp and disappoints. So good idea FAN OVEN IS BEST.

Further to my other post, I forgot to mention that "Zoppas" is an Italian brand name owned by Electrolux.

To divert a bit. Many years ago when automatic washing machines were desired but could hardly be afforded here in Italy, a local Umbrian family were smart enough to buy the rights to sell the "cheap and cheerful" Zoppas washing machine throughout Umbria. They bought a castle and became immensley rich on the proceeds.

And then, Electrolux bought the brand name..... It always happens......

Hi Nicola,
Even in the UK where 30 & 60 amp supplies are the norm it is now unusual (unless it’s yer all-singing-all-dancing variety with Pyrolytic self cleaning) for any single oven in a built-in kitchen to exceed 3Kw; they all come with a flex intended to be plugged into standard domestic sockets which, in the UK., will be fused at the plug at max 13Amp with a recommended max loading at each socket of 3Kw. Considering that its unlikely that two ovens would be pulling their max both at the same time you would get away with a 6Kw supply. You would however have to ensure that you don’t put an electric kettle, toaster, dishwasher etc. on at the same time unless you don’t mind constantly resetting the Enel circuit-breaker.
An alternative could be one electric & one gas oven, but options for built-in gas ovens can be limited & more expensive & installation more problematical due to the large volume of hot waste gasses that need to be vented &, in the case of a built-under oven, some manufacturers recommend a venting aperture be cut into the worktop above......not ideal. Also rules regarding room ventilation here in Italy are applied quite strictly & you would need fairly large diameter venting holes drilled at floor & ceiling levels to outside.

As you mentioned you have a farmhouse, you would do well to consider buying a free standing gas cooker & small gas bombola & regulator & create a small “summer kitchen” somewhere outside: poss. up against the wall of the house close to an outside dinning area. Include also an inexpensive pot or plastic sink with a hot & cold supply, a work surface & a bit of shade & you wont have to put up with the oppressive heat generated in the kitchen from boiling & roasting in the middle of summer. These kind of arrangements are the norm in Italy & if it don’t look as sexy as Homes & Gardens don’t worry about it cos the Italians don’t, not even the very stylish & wealthy, yet with a little bit of design nouse you can “rusticate” it & turn it into everybody’s bohemian-chic dream.

As to choice of cookers for the kitchen:- avoid range cookers like the plague unless you have reasons you have so far not mentioned. They take up space that could be better used for storage, tend to vary sufficiently in size that when they fail (& they do with alarming regularity because they are generally built to fill a fashion niche & not a practical need) & you need to replace it, your choices will be limited by what fits rather than what you want. They are, in the main design fantasy inspired “white elephants” whose only true purpose is to punch a large hole in your bank balance. They DO come with lovely large multi-burner hobs but these days those are freely available in great variety as an inset hob designed to fit in a worktop aperture regardless of what is underneath. As to fan ovens: there are fan ovens & fan ovens & price is not always the best indicator of quality. Is there an equivalent to The Guild of Good Housekeeping over here? These peoples recommends are spot on. It’s difficult to recommend a make or model as everything is always in flux but the likes of Stoves never had a good reputation for quality. Do research.

Fitted kitchens: be aware that in Italy kitchens are planned & installed with the presumption that it will be taken out when the house is sold. As a consequence the are conceived & installed differently from the UK. In the UK we measure & plan the whole room as a fully integrated entity & although floor tilling will more often than not be done ahead of installation, wall tilling will be done after; a more time consuming & expensive method when judged as a square yardage cost but one which achieves much better overall results. Here in Italy the walls are tiled in their entirety, floor to ceiling, wall to wall, regardless of how many square meters of expensive tiles will be hidden behind units &, when the units are fitted, they “fit where they touch”; i.e. expect gaps here & there & definitely expect gaps at the end of runs, between worktops & walls & tall units & walls. Worktop joints will be pre-cut in the factory to a theoretical set of measurements which can not only leave you with worktop joints plainly visible from Mars but compounding the square peg in a round hole syndrome leading to ever more gapping. Although there will, I am sure, be many companies employing personnel that install to a very high standard, the opposite is the general rule & do not be at all surprised if you are sent a bunch of guys with some DIY tools & skills to match. Expect also to be calling in your own plumber & electrician after installation as not many companies will send their own included in the price so sinks will not be connected to H&C & Waste & electrical connections will not be made unless there is a socket within reach of the cable on the appliance.

How come I know all this stuff? I started as an Antique Restorer, became a Cabinet Maker, & spent most of my working life as a Joiner & have planned, designed, built & installed complete with tiling, full electrical re-wire, hot, cold & waste provision & gas more expensive luxury (& cheap) fitted kitchens than you can shake a stick at.

Sorry about the length of this post. I was bored & at a lose end cos I did my shoulder in recently, I can’t do any work & doctors have told me to chill for a bit. I got carried away.
Pilch

I second Pilchard's thoughts, particularly about the summer kitchen -- ours has been a godsend in the heat, and makes any kind of summer cooking a pleasure instead of hell. It's simply a 2-burner gas ring on a metal table, an old porcelain sink with built-in drain, another worktop table, all set up in a galley row in the outside courtyard next to a big shaded dining area, typical in Puglia. Not sure if this pertains to the North, but I very much like having all the kitchen and bath cabinets/storage units up on legs, making cleaning the tile floors so much easier, and preventing any insect nest-building as well. This has the additional advantage of bringing the work surfaces up to a reasonable height for 2 tall people in the kitchen -- most Italian kitchens are designed for a women around 5'2!

That's because most Italian women ARE 5'2". :bigergrin:

Pilchard I have sent you a private message (hope you do not mind), many many thanks for ALL your advice it really was so useful. best wishes

I applaud Pilchard for taking such trouble to reply to the question set by Nicola. Here in Umbria the many foreigners wanting fitted kitchens have "trained" local firms to produce kitchens that they desire. The right height of work top etc.and the end result is most satisfactory ...but you still have to plan well and take nothing for granted. A friend with a holiday house here wanted to alter her fitted kitchen and a Bosch fridge freezer unit was purchsed, 1000 euros. The carpenters made a unit front for it. 3 weeks of running the fridge in July and the motor packed up. Neither Bosch nor the carpenters had provided a ventillator grill for the air to circulate. This will now be fitted into the skirting board. When ordering a new motor it was confirmed that Bosch do not supply such a thing, it was up to the carpenters! A grill was found by our firends but almost every DIY place in Perugia was visited! Another friend has underfloor heating.She chose an island unit in her kitchen and the fridge was placed above the hot pipes so of course that too packed up! Nicola says it's hard doing things here in Italy and she is right there. I have just spent most of the day clearing up the debris after yesterdays ferocious storm and tempest...new gazebo looks nice!

[quote=pilchard;94960] In the UK it is now unusual (unless it’s yer all-singing-all-dancing variety with Pyrolytic self cleaning) for any single oven in a built-in kitchen to exceed 3Kw;[/quote]

As a supplement to Pilchard's amazingly detailed reply, If anyone actually does want one, Bosch supply a built-in fan oven with pyrolytic self-cleaning to Italy which is rated at 2.75kw. I'm not sure if it's all-singing and all-dancing, but it does have a lot of functions.

We use one of these on our 3kw supply, perfectly satisfactorily, as you don't use the pyrolitic cleaning function that often, which is what seems to take the full 2.75kw. In ordinary use the power consumption of the oven is sufficiently low for whatever else we've got on (though obviously this doesn't include the electric kettle, washing machine or dishwasher).

Bosco, that Bosch built in oven; is it any good? Does the pyrolytic cleaning work well? Does it cook evenly.....side to side & back to front? Is the thermostat accurate? How much are they? Bosch have a good all round reputation for white goods but I didn't realize they were now doing ovens. They could be badging someone elses product. A French company called De Deitrich is well known for it's high quality Pyrolytic ovens, as well as industrial furnaces & trains: if it's theirs than it's a corker.
Sprat has just reminded me that in reality I dont know how to use ANY kitchen equipment. I burn toast & boil kettles dry, although am a dab hand with a corkscrew.
Pilch

All brilliant, especially the cleaning - a much better result than the ones with catalytic linings (have one of those in England). They are essentially the same as NEFF and Seimens - all made by the same manufacturer; slightly different external designs. Here is a link to the UK website page, you can also look them up on the italian website - slight differences in numbers etc and of course power rating. Price around the same as the ones in the UK.

[url=http://www.boschappliances.co.uk/boschuk2007/en/products/result-bosch-SingleOvens-cat-24.htm]Bosch Appliances[/url]