10277 Well behaved (Italian ) children

In my experience, they are polite, well behaved and a pleasure to be with. But, that is just my own experience - not an opinion of national characteristics.

I can only speak of the ones I have direct experience of, who are my wife's nieces and nephews. They all behave extremely badly, jumping on furniture, running round and fighting, without their parents bothering to correct them. I avoid them as much as I can.

As I always say, I do not think it is a problem of nationality. If the parents are well mannered and they know how to educate their children, then there would be no problems. On the other hand, I feel that many parents, nowadays, do not bother correcting their children in an effective way. I see it everyday and in different countries.

I am sure you are right, no one would allow this sort of bad behaviour, if they themselves were well mannered.
Incidently, after 5 days of being entertained, meals laid on , driven back and forth to the beach, cafe, etc etc, not one word of thanks, or word that they arrived home safely which is very much "the norm" with our family and friends.

There is another point that worries me regarding the current children's upbringing, regardless of nationality. The child's education is achieved partly at home and partly at school. Educational institutions are lacking discipline and there is an ever increasing number of teachers' complaints pointing out that they are powerless when it comes to discipline a child because that can lead into agressive behaviour on the side of the parents who do not like their children corrected. And I am not talking about physical punishment which I regard as highly negative and to be totally banned. So it is a very sad state of affairs when it comes to educate a child and we see the consequences, bullying, brutality, violence... What are we doing for the new generations? I still do not have grandchildren, which I hope to have in the future, but I will definitely try to pass on to them the values I learned not only from my parents but also from my grandparents and family. I think that children need a solid family network to help them out. And if it happens that parents are not fortunate enough to have those links, I feel that it would be advisable to create an extended family through friends of all ages who could assist them in the process of educating children. It is a community task.

As Nardini says it is not really about nationality, it is about the child and parenting skills .Children are not my favourite thing but I have had charming ones visiting us here, and have seen very wellbehaved small children out eating with their family, and today seen an English child screaming its head off in the local supermarket totally enraged and out of control....and ignored by the adults with it.
The little boy that came to stay seems to have had very difficult problems, which may not totally be down to his mother, must be a very unhappy child and unpleasant for everyone else around him.
A

I'm appalled by that sort of behaviour - sounds like UK hoodies! I've only come into contact with Italian kids over 3 years visiting on holiday, but on the whole found them to be polite, well mannered but like most kids in most countries - playing football in the streets, etc. I do think discipline is lacking these days though - you can't do this, can't do that because the 'experts' know best. (Def. of an expert - an 'Ex..' is a has-been, a 'spurt' is a drip under pressure.) So -according to them - hundreds of generations of parents have been doing it wrong for thousands of years so how the human race made it this far is a mystery! Just waiting for them to tell us how to do it right in lots of books - that seem to contradict each other - and all bringing in a nice little sum. Sorry - do I sound cynical? My wife is a primary school teacher and sees the results daily.

Pjay, i can only comment on our experiences of children in italy. Over the last three or four years we have been to different areas in Le Marche, Umbria and Toscana. Every time we have been i'm sure that we have always commented on how well behaved the children are.
Gala is right to suggest that effective parenting is the best method in up-bringing and it sounds as if your husands neice is fine example, proveing that you can't learn how to be a parent from an book. (i'm not saying books are no good)
In general Italy will have its share of unruley kids however, i havent seen many and feel that the UK is now a far worse place to raise a family and that your more likely to find little terrors in th UK!
Does TV have much to with it ? In the UK my 4 year old nephew is convinced he's a power ranger and that he's allowed to go around beating people up. To be fair he does no the the diffence in whats right or wrong and only plays at being violent.

Well I blame the parents!

And of course they can't have been brought up right either so I blame their parents and their parents and all the way back.

Look at those kids of Adam and Eve! Need I say more?:laughs:

Actually there is something about Italian kids, that up until about the age of 8 or 9, they are the most obnoxious little b*stards in the world. They are mollycoddled and spoiled rotten, they have their every whim catered to and are given total freedom to be as whingy and annoying as possible.

Then, all of a sudden, their parents usually explode and finally manage to get their heads together and come down on them like a ton of bricks, usually by beating them senseless - and restore the pecking order. :laughs:

What a strange experience you have had J&C of children here and their parents, where do you live in Italy I wonder?
A

I have spent the whole summer as a life-guard in a holiday complex and got to see up close exactly the kind of behaviour Italian kids and their parents get up to.

There aren't many rules to observe here, but most are for safety and some are to not annoy others. For trying to uphold these rules, I too have been spat at, sworn at, had my belongings trampled on and kicked, rude hand gestures and had to put up with the great Italian pastime of antagonism.

When you mention this to the parents, hoping for a bit of discipline, instead you get them defending their little angels so vigorously, they almost convince you that you are in the wrong.

On top of that, instead of trying to set a good example to their kids, they are there acting as stupid as possible, shoving their own kids into the pool, etc

My aunt is also a teacher (in Tuscany) and she is on the verge of giving up the profession, due to the fact that she isn't allowed to keep the kids under control, as not only isn't that allowed any more, but some parents even come in and threaten the teachers.

In my opinion this Political Correctness BS has gone too far and if nothing is done to bring back some basic discipline, then society will fail. It's happening already, if you just open your eyes.

Rant over :smile:

[quote=Angie and Robert;95551]What a strange experience you have had J&C of children here and their parents, where do you live in Italy I wonder?
A[/quote]

Why is mine a strange experience Angie? Is it because it is different from yours? :winki:

I think that the parents of all those little delinquent monsters should be simply get a stiff fine for not being able to control their children and allowing them to annoy others. When the pocket will be hit, they will start learning the lesson. Or perhaps parents should get a proper license (after undergoing an examination) and loose points as it is done with the drivers.......
The parents need to be punished more than the children.

[quote=Gala Placidia;95569]I think that the parents of all those little delinquent monsters should be simply get a stiff fine for not being able to control their children and allowing them to annoy others. When the pocket will be hit, they will start learning the lesson. Or perhaps parents should get a proper license (after undergoing an examination) and loose points as it is done with the drivers.......
The parents need to be punished more than the children.[/quote]

Perhaps instead of fining parents who are obviously failing to bring their children up properly, there should be a qualification in child rearing and anyone who doesn’t pass the exam should be sterilised.

As for delinquent children, they should be taken away and raised in institutions where they won’t annoy anyone and can be taught discipline.

I can’t find a ‘tongue in cheek’ smiley!

[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]We have had some mixed experience with Italian parents and children, but we noticed that Italian parents are more protective of their sibling – one mum in Pescara, who was chatting on her mobile for hours leaving her son to play with ours rushed to us shouting when ours threw some sand on her boy, but when he did the same thing earlier I just stopped him and said to that this is not nice thing to do. However it was a joy to see how well ours mixed with local children of their age (3 and 4), although on one occasion I had to tell a group of older boys off when they were spitting and threatening ours . In water world, restaurants and shops kids were well behaved, did not see anyone running around screaming. In village they were just lovely, playing together and sharing toys and sweets[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman]. In general in feel that Italian parenting style is more passive, they leave children to themselves and only interfere when it is time for snak/drink/suncream application.[/FONT][/SIZE]

Parents do seem to let kids rule: at sometimes mollycoddling them and at others acting in an irresponible and danerous manner.For example letting toddlers loose in a car!!No car seats or belts etc.And feeding them huge quantities of sugar.

Here in the UK I've worked with 'diificult' teenagers and am convinced the food is at the bottom of all of this behaviour.That darling child in the first post was probably being fed almost entirely on sweets and sugary drinks by his daft mother.How would you expect you car to behave if you never gave it the right fuel?

I'm sad to see this happening in a country such as Italy where generally there is huge respect for fresh food and good quality produce. I suggest teams ofnonnas are recruited to teach these young parents ( yes the fathers too) how to raise children with proper foods and rules that are stuck to and enforced!

[FONT="Fixedsys"]It sounds to me the mother was out of control as well, who in their right mind would have their child behave like that? Kids need structure and well defined rules, these days’ parents are too afraid to be strict with their kids. It does not mean that you have to deny your kid everything, but there are rules and no is no. If you give in too many times the child takes advantage of the situation and the parent(s) will loose control. It is in kid’s nature to want to see if they can push the boundaries, and once they know that…. Parents have to be strict from a very early age and the problem is that many parents think it is not necessary. Maybe next time you should call in Super Nanny to show the mum how it is done.:laughs:[/FONT]

[quote=myabruzzohome;95581]......

Here in the UK I've worked with 'diificult' teenagers and am convinced the food is at the bottom of all of this behaviour.That darling child in the first post was probably being fed almost entirely on sweets and sugary drinks by his daft mother.How would you expect you car to behave if you never gave it the right fuel?

I'm sad to see this happening in a country such as Italy where generally there is huge respect for fresh food and good quality produce. I suggest teams ofnonnas are recruited to teach these young parents ( yes the fathers too) how to raise children with proper foods and rules that are stuck to and enforced![/quote]

I am certain that all this hyperactivity is caused by children being fed the wrong kind of food. Parents think that children can be given all kinds of candy and commercially baked pastry, which contains countless products which are not beneficial for their health. I second the idea of recruiting the good old "nonnas".

[quote=Gala Placidia;95584]............ I second the idea of recruiting the good old "nonnas".[/quote]

I've seen plenty of nonnas spoiling their grandchildren - so that wouldn't necessarily work

[I say bring back corporal punishment ...............................for the parents]

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[quote=myabruzzohome;95581]

Here in the UK I've worked with 'diificult' teenagers and am convinced the food is at the bottom of all of this behaviour.That darling child in the first post was probably being fed almost entirely on sweets and sugary drinks by his daft mother.How would you expect you car to behave if you never gave it the right fuel?
[/quote]
I teach Italian kids both English & dance on a regular basis & on the whole find them better behaved than British kids but had one horrendous boy a couple of years ago who after he had had his merenda was a complete nightmare. After a coupld of days of this we requested that the "fruit juice" he had be removed from his snack & although I wouldn't say he was an angel the improvement was incredible (until the dya he had 3 icecreams!). Many children here (as in the UK) eat too many carbs & have too many sugary drinks especially in the evenings & I'm also sure that sleep deprivation, which I am sure at least some of them suffer from as bedtimes seem to be much later here, must have something to do with it. In saying that I would rather teach Italian kids any day than British ones!!

So it was you, the fly on my wall.... You are so , so , right. Breakfast for the little lad was chocolato cereal bar, pavesi biscuits and his feeding bottle of UHT milk. The mother said he did not like fresh milk. When offered a lovely free range egg laid my my neighbour's hens, I was told eggs are bad for children. The fruit on the table was just ignored, the vegetables put on his plate at lunch and dinner ( by me ) were not eaten, either by the mother or the child.
His diet was awful, and my husband said the same as you, he is eating all the wrong foods. No fruit, no veg and sugar ,sugar, sugar.
It was interesting that everything left on his plate was wolfed down by my wild cats HOWEVER if he left any chocolate cereal bar, this was left uneaten by the cats. By the way the cats are well behaved and very, very intelligent.
Pjay

[quote=myabruzzohome;95581]Parents do seem to let kids rule: at sometimes mollycoddling them and at others acting in an irresponible and danerous manner.For example letting toddlers loose in a car!!No car seats or belts etc.And feeding them huge quantities of sugar.

Here in the UK I've worked with 'diificult' teenagers and am convinced the food is at the bottom of all of this behaviour.That darling child in the first post was probably being fed almost entirely on sweets and sugary drinks by his daft mother.How would you expect you car to behave if you never gave it the right fuel?

I'm sad to see this happening in a country such as Italy where generally there is huge respect for fresh food and good quality produce. I suggest teams ofnonnas are recruited to teach these young parents ( yes the fathers too) how to raise children with proper foods and rules that are stuck to and enforced![/quote]

Having had many a dealing with lots of children & parents, I can only rise to the defence of parents. Living & working in today’s "modern society", parents both have to work these days, fit in careers, and have children. Rising costs, job pressures to work longer hours to show your commitment to the firm, fear of job loss, media saying you should have this, or that. In the middle of all this they have to raise their children to the best of their ability. So.... Look for a good nursery. Not an easy task. Leave them with strangers or ageing grandparents (who have no energy for this task). Then because they feel so guilt ridden they indulge them with the wrong foods, T.V, toys & games ( which they have to play alone 'cos their too tired to sit with them), their own DVD player, IN THEIR BEDROOM, and when they feel so bad you give them a smothering kind of love. End result, confused, lost & generally spoilt children, confused, lost & frustrated parents. When can we teach them good manners if we haven't got the time?
Bunch

Well, then we are going to have to change the very structure of our society, because this is a very dangerous road. Do we need all the gadgets that the media show us? Do we need to get mortgaged until retirement age simply because we must own our home? Are we doing all the wrong things? Who benefits from them?
I think that we need to review our priorities as a society.

[quote=Gala Placidia;95626].........................I think that we need to review our priorities as a society.[/quote]

I totally agree - as long as it doesn't affect me of course.

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Bunch ask yourself why both parents work? is it to buy the necessities? No it's to pay for the status symbol car and the 5 bed house.Did we are have such crap childhoods in the 60's?

We both worked part-time and raised our own kids.Its possible believe me but not if you have to buy everything the advertisers push on you. Kids thrive on love not things and time is more important than money.

Its a shame that people only realise this once their kids are grown up and there's nothing they can do about it.

I have to add that I flew alone with my 4 children , two years ago, from Stansted to Brindisi, who's ages, at the time, were 10 ,8 4 and 3 and was extremely proud, when two different sets of passenges commented on how well behaved my children were. Its how you bring them up and teach them how to behave in public :yes: Nothing complicated or international :no:

The Times yesterday had an article entitled ;
"How on earth has it become normal, in one generation, to farm out children to a succession of poorly paid helpers?"

Is it relevant? (Read the whole very middle class diatribe at [url=http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/camilla_cavendish/article4622018.ece]Children: those things other people look after | Camilla Cavendish - Times Online[/url]

On the same flight there was an Italian family who's kids were stradling the arm rests along the isles looking up the plane. To me this was completely out of order but their father was stood up talking to thier children as if it didn't matter. One of the things my father taught me, that has never left me, is that you never put your shoes where a person may sit. I have taught the same thing to me kids and you will never see my kids standing on a chair or the arm of a chair..

[quote=Charles Phillips;95649]....................."How on earth has it become normal, in one generation, to farm out children to a succession of poorly paid helpers?".....................][/quote]

Its probably because the parents don't live near the grandparents these days

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Interesting thread beacause a friend's neice, recent graduate, decided to join an agency as a nanny this summer. Apparently well off English parents have "Madeleine Phobia". 5 jobs (2 Italy 3 France), was quite enough. Few parents had any common sense and all parented differently. The children all had a low boredom threshold. We on the otherhand have had 2 lots of English child guests aged between 4 and 9. All well behaved and polite. The parents were committed to giving the children a happy holiday. So perhaps it's the luck of the draw who you are born to?

English friends with small kids in Umbria say that Childcare facilities/Nurseries here are far superior and far cheaper than in England. They do not penalise you for picking your child up late or for giving them short notice if your child has to stay for longer. A meal is easily arranged at short notice too and their kids are extremely well looked after. It is one of the reasons they are living here rather than over there.

I was a single parent mum and chose to work. I didn't want to raise my children with the help of the Soc. I had no partner to share the part-time job. No 5 bed roomed house, or car. Public transport for me. Clothes bought in charity shops.
Do part-time jobs give you enough money & can they keep you in & up to date with your career? It must surely depend on what type of part-time work we are talking about that can bring in sufficient money.
My children were raised with love & care. What time I had I gave to them. Surely it's not amount of time but the quality of time. Don't you think?
Bunch

Bunch you are right for single parents part-time work is never going to provide enough money to suport a family but then I don't believe its a good thing that single mothers should have to work full time and it benifits society as a whole if young children are looked after by their parent/s in their early years after all whas the choice.bored underpaid eastern european au pairs little older than the kids themselves or 'kiddyfarms' with similar low paid bored staff .In my opinion single parents should receive payments thro the tax credit system to allow them to stay at home until their children start school.

on the other hand in Italy the only reason things are slightly different is that grandmothers help with chldcare.How many of us in the uk have mothers with the time or inclination to do this on a daily basis?Mostly our parents are either busy with their own hobbies or travel or they will be too elderly or infirm to help, or too far away.

You asked about pt jobs when our children were small I worked managing an art gallery and partner is artist so able to paint in evenings.We managed to earn enough to pay the bills!

I think I did mention the down fall of an ageing parent looking after children. Too old, not enough energy & desire for change. I needed my children looked after by caring, intelligent & trustworthy people. People with spark & a willingness to pass on curiosity & good social skills. Lets not forget, there are people out there who trained & chose to work with children.
When my children were small I was lucky to live in a small community with other single mums. They also had the same or similar thoughts & needs and we set up a cooperative. We shared our time & energies in raising children & working. Unfortunately, I did not come from a wealthy middle class family with cosy ideas on child rearing. Though my children now have moved up & beyond my lowly background , but haven't left me or my family behind
Bunch.