10453 Travertine kitchen worksurface

Travertine is not a good work surface. Even if you seal it there is no guarantee. Granite or Carrara are better as they are not porous.

Hi Nicola D

Sorry cannot give any advice about travertine worktop. BUT, as you're pretty close to the Perugia/Siena road have you been to the travertine quarries near Serra di Rapolano which is about 15 mins. or so before Siena. Amazing - quarried 'cliffs' on view and Serra di Rapolano is largely made of travertine. A gorgeous little village centro storico) PLUS the lovely San Giovanni spa nearby. Water a constant 39oC and BLISS.

Apart from the staining I think it's actually quite a soft stone. We've got travertine stones on the steps outside our house (not us that put them there) and they've got quite a few dents and cracks on them due to things being dropped on them. I would imagine something like a tin dropping on it would take a chunk out. My partner's a builder and he says that Travertine is basically expensive and not that great to work with. But I agree, it does look good :yes:

Any sort of acidic liquid will stain or eat away a stone based work surface, if it is not cleaned off straight away. As Gala says the best is a granite or even one of the composite types, but even with these you have to be careful.

Travertine is a very variable material - it can be rough and rather fragile, or close 'grained' and at least as strong and non-porous as carrara marble. Have a word with your stone merchant and ask his advice (he will have slabs of varying quality). You need it stuccato, which means the small holes are filled with a travertine dust based paste, and (I would suggest from experience) by far the most durable finish is 'spazzolato'. This isn't a very highly polished surface, so the kitchen acids which will 'etch' off the polish are less important.

BTW, the worst acid I've come across is the liquid from the mozzarella - I suppose it is lactic acid but it makes a worse mess of polished stone worktops than lemon juice!

May I put a word in for in for two suppliers in our own village - San Terenziano - which is quite near to you. Orazi and Burlarelli are both to be found in the industrial zone. The travertine is quarried locally and should be much cheaper than elsewhere and they are experts in working it.

Thanks all but the message to date really seems to be that Travertine although a lovely stone is probably not the best material for a kitchen work surface unless you want to spend time constantly worrying about what goes on it and life is too short for that. Oh well have to go for something less beautiful but more practical!!!!!!!!!

Any other suggestions?

I am very happy with my Carrara marble works surfaces, but then, my kitchen is all white.... it may not suit the colours you will be using...

Nicola D
I have Travertine worktops and don't have any problems. As has been said, acids will damage the surface over time if it's not wiped away. But bear in mind there are different grades and quality of Travertine and you get what you pay for in the same way as Marble and Granite. The cheaper grade with lots of holes looks good but is usually used for window cills and steps. Most people will generally use whatever stone is common in the area they live in to keep with tradition. Many parts of Marche and Abruzzo will use Travertine for many uses in the house because of the quality available in the area especially in the Ascoli Piceno region. Marble or Granite will last longer but the edges can also chip if you knock them with something hard and you can also gets cracks in places, although it's not very common and is more often caused by bad transportation or fitting.

As I thought my proposed worksurface was also stone I googled Travertine and it looked sort of similar.
I then googled mine which is Giallo Atlantide and in various sites it was listed as a limestone, a granite and a marble. :veryconfused:
Whatever it is I am having it done 'spazzolato' which Charles in his post says is the most durable finish so I am somewhat comforted. :bigergrin:

Thanks Biagio, what sort of finish did you have, was it the 'spazzolatto' as suggested by Charles early in the thread?

We unfortunately had a travertine kitchen floor in our last house in the UK and even though we sealed it the tiles still seemed to stain and be a complete nightmare. Its a shame because the floor did look lovely before we started to do any cooking!

On a slightly different note, we are thinking about putting in Carrara marble worktop in our Italian kitchen and were wondering how much this would generally cost. Is it an expensive option (we assume it is)?

Next time we go out to Italy we shall start to enquire but a initial idea of cost would be useful.

It is difficult to give you an accurate idea as what costs more is the labour to have the worktop installed, particularly if it is a difficult shape or form. In our case, they had to make several cuts to allow space for a very low window and this, together with the grooves I requested to discharge water into the sink increased costs. You may also have to have the cupboards reinforced to cope with the heavy weight of the marble.
Basically, our new kitchen, custom made and with the Carrara top costed twice what we would have paid for an ordinary kitchen. But the results justified the extra expense.

I have to agree that the marble worktops do look good, especially when they have been designed for the specific space and have all the drainage grooves etc....

We are looking at building our own 'units' out of brick and having little curtains at the front, which appears to be a style of kitchen used in Tuscany. Hopefully this construction should be able to hold up the marble!

[quote=Nicola D;97351]Thanks Biagio, what sort of finish did you have, was it the 'spazzolatto' as suggested by Charles early in the thread?[/quote]

Hi Nicola D
Yes it was the spazzolato finish. We had all the work surfaces done as well as a matching shelf around the base of the fireplace in the lounge. Also, if anyone does think of having travertine worktops, make sure that its a decent thickness, If I remember rightly, mine is 50mm.

[quote=Cath;97475]I have to agree that the marble worktops do look good, especially when they have been designed for the specific space and have all the drainage grooves etc....

We are looking at building our own 'units' out of brick and having little curtains at the front, which appears to be a style of kitchen used in Tuscany. Hopefully this construction should be able to hold up the marble![/quote]

Yes, it is an old Tuscan style of kitchen which looks very nice even nowadays. You should not have problems with the brick structure holding the marble top.

I thought it might be worthwhile just listing, and describing, the various finishes which any decent marmista can achieve on just about any stone. (I did think about finding lots of photos to go with this post, but the differences are rather visually subtle, and a snap wouldn't be much use!)

1: Al grezzo (or alla sega). This is stone straight from the saw. Often this finish is lightly sandblasted to get rid of the circular saw marks, and can additionally be treated using an acid which makes it look very antique, perhaps necessary to match existing work if you are patching something. Used for paving, window surrounds, etc. Commonly used on travertine and pietra serena type of stone, limestones and sandstones, mostly externally or for ground floor paving. Generally this stone is just left to fend for itself (in other words has no further sealant or polish) although for internal paving it can be protected invisibly with a water based sealant and even a non shiny renewable polish (both done on site).

2: Stuccato. This describes the filling in of the holes common in loose travertines, or defects in any stone. It is pretty invisible in any stone with any sort of texture. Rarely used for stones used externally, but almost universal in anything used internally.

3: Levigata. This can best be compared to 'planed' (if al grezzo is just plain lumber, this is planed timber). It gives an almost perfectly flat surface - good for paving or internal sills etc. if you don't want a glossy finish. It is done after the stuccato process. It is normally treated (by the marmista) with a sealant, and can be further protected with a renewable polish (matt or semi-matt) on site. Any stone (except granite) is useful with this finish.

4: Lucidata. This is the mirror finish always used on granite (unpolished granite is not attractive), and frequently on decorative stone (travertines, marbles) used in bathrooms and kitchens. It is applied by the marmista, and can be protected by products such as Brillo polish (mentioned earlier in the thread). It isn't a wonderfully easy surface to keep perfect - not only do common kitchen acids etch the surface, but common bathroom cleaning products designed to remove lime scale also destroy the finish over time.

5: Spazzolato. This is a recently adopted finish, and I've only ever seen it used on travertine, though I imagine it could be used effectively on other stones such as Trani or other pale limestones. After it has been stuccato and levigato the stone is effectively wire brushed, and then treated with a sealant by the marmista. I suppose the best description of the finish is 'very very slightly grained leather'. Because it is neither absolutely flat, nor shiny, it is entirely forgiving - it never shows dust or defects.

If you are buying a serious piece of stone (for a floor, or a big work surface) it is essential that you see the exact piece of stone in your marmista's yard, because one bit of the quarry will have (say) fantastic high contrast veining, whereas another part of the quarry will produce boring stuff. Clearly, although both bits of stone are correctly described as (for example) Calacava, or Trani, you or I would not believe it!

The marmista should also have samples of the finishes available to look at and choose, and be able to advise on detailed design (for example where sink cut outs require metal reinforcement, or whether you have a design which pushes the envelope too far for the strength of the material).

For a highly polished, stone looking, bomb proof surface you have to look at the 'fake' marbles which are actually extremely hard ceramics. These unfortunately are quite expensive, but if you can put up with a 10mm thickness (bathroom tiling in particular) they are an excellent product suitable for heavy careless use (hotels, etc).

Thanks Charlies for your really comprehensive reply. However, still really not sure about whether to go for Travertine on not. But will go back to my kitchen man and ask about the finish and width etc of the worktop he would be supplying. I have a feeling it might be best to go for quartz or some other manmade substance, as I am having quite alot of worksurface put in L shaped with breakfast bar. But thanks everyone again

I don't know if this would be of any interest but I currently have brushed black granite in my kitchen in California that comes from Italy. The supplier we purchased it from told us the Italians are the masters of alternative finishes these days. This is the most bullet-proof surface you can ever imagine. It is incredibly hard, dense and impervious to any kind of staining or etching. It hides all manner of smudges and marks, unlike my polished granite island. I'd agree with Charles that most granites don't look great unpolished but a monochromatic color like black looks pretty good and can work in both a rustic or modern setting. Here's a photo of my granite.

[url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v736/NancysHouse1/Kitchen/Granite.jpg?t=1222095524[/url]

That does look very good Calltal, and your picture shows very well what a spazzolato finish looks like.

We have a travertine table which we use as a desk. We decided not to use it as a dining table as of course it's full of little holes and therefore completely impractical and will stain.

But isn't that the beauty of this type of natural material? That it stains, ages, pits and gets it's own patina over time seems to me a bonus - otherwise why use it if you want a pristine look forever? It's not as if you will be around to see if it lasts the next hundred years anyway - is it?

And after 100 years of total neglect the tops or sinks are taken to an antique shop that will charge a fortune for them, particularly if they have plenty of "patina". The only type of its kind that does not loose value the minute you take it out of the shop.....

Totally agree with you Juliancoll. If I'm not mistaken, Travertine from the Ascoli Piceno region was used on the outside walls of many Roman buildings as well as many buildings in Ascoli Piceno (and still is) and have survived the test of time and weather.

Yes I agree but you don't want millions of bits of food rotting away in the tiny holes in it

[quote=Robert;97617]Yes I agree but you don't want millions of bits of food rotting away in the tiny holes in it[/quote]
But no one in their right mind would use travertine alla sega as a kitchen work top - would they? Surely they would sling it on the floor in the largest slabs as is possible and let time take it's course.

yes but that was the original question

Yes, that was the original question - using travertine for a work top in the kitchen thanks Robert