10434 pool excavation and build costs

Work on about E65 per hour for the excavator. That should be less than a days work, as the guys I use can cover 50+ sq mtrs at a similar depth in about 4-5 hours depending on ground conditions.
Backfill again is only a few hours work.
Costs you are looking at seem to be the foundations/ reinforcing etc, but it does seem to be rather high.

Does seem a bit steep - but ground conditions do heavily affect the price.

We just had an 8m x 5m (1.4 m deep) pool built for a client using the same technique. The cost was €25,000, including a 3m-wide terrace and all the pool equipment right down to the net.
This is in Umbria - by no means the cheapest place to procure building work.

hi there

I am in puglia and the cost for pools is about the same. for a client i had the excavation done for 2,200 e. And they got the french system pool put in....no extenal in the ground pump room needed for 44,000. But bear in mind it was double the size and it is an 8 shaped pool. Has 4 filter jets in, 3 skimmer points and also has solar shower, and at one end of the pool is a resisance jet to swim against.

I have also got a quote just given to me for a 7m x 5m pool. The pool will be 17,500e and the excavation will be 1,400e. This doesn't include the terraces and the pool is only paint finish although the rest is concrete reinforced.

Prices depend on shape, size and the land you have to work with.
Hope this helps although i am in a different provincia

gill

So, would you say if you are budgeting for a pool (as we are) then allow around 25-35K Euros - including finishing?

Also, does anyone have any idea how much an 8X5 pool (with solar panels probably) costs to run& maintain a year?

And does a pool (pump) create any problems with the electricity supply (i.e. we have been told "don't put the oven on at same time as the washing machine")

Thanks....

Hi Jon, see the thread about renting property and paying taxes there's some info regarding legislation on pools. Damiano wrote some useful points, one of which is you need to have 1.4 metres.

All depends on the electricity supply that you decide to have, 3Kw no electric oven + washing machine together. 6 kw probably ok as long as not too much else is running at the same time, eg electric kettles, dishwashers etc. 9Kw a lot more scope to cover for higher loading, only price difference is the monthly Kw standing charge that you have to pay, other than that the unit consumed rate is the same.

Thanks Geotherm,

I think I have been given the wrong advice - I was told if I wanted a higher KW rating I would pay more per therm rather than just an increased monthly rate?

Geotherm has roughly explained electricity usage - but a pump for a 5x10 pool is unlikely to draw more than 750 watts, and they are always on a timer. All you are doing when you run a pool pump is circulating the water through the filter, (and perhaps distributing the chlorine), and it can happily do this stuff majorly at night.

The consideration of 'how much' electricity you need to have available depends not only on what equipment you have, but how you manage your use. Remember also that (with a modern meter and an adequate supply line) you always have quite a lot more electricity than you have contracted for available for 'a short period'. In other words, if the well pump happens to be running for thrity seconds even when you are drawing your theoretical 'maximum' nothing will trip.

Oops - crossing threads. The important thing about learning to live with 3kW is that the 3kW tarriff is the only one which gives you an advantage (both standing charge, and charge per kWh) if you are resident. If you are not going to be resident, you have understood Geotherm correctly, and you can have 6kW + for just a small extra standing charge.

If you are on a 3Kw supply and use too much then the cost escalates quite rapidly, with anything over then you pay x amount per kw of loading available, but the kwh charge is the same. We have 15 kw for which we pay circa E17 per month as a standing charge, but the price per kw is about 0.18 cents. That is the same if you have 6-9-12-15Kw supply. All plus IVA and a few other small additions.

Thanks,
We bought a small (ish) house last year - and I have got used to not putting the dishwasher on at the same time as the oven (I did once and it did trip)

We are now in the process of buying a larger villa and we want to put in a pool - and altough we have a fabulous geometra - I want to gather as much information as I can.

To answer your question about running costs for a pool (of about 10m x 5m). I'd say a ball-park figure would be;
Electricity: €100
Chemicals: €200
Opening & closing: €300 (if done by a pool company)
Cleaning: €300 (if you emloy some one to do it in your absence)
So... about €1,000/year if you have it managed for you, or €500 if you DIY.

Thanks to you all.

I now have the info I need to challenge the excavation cost.

Re the actual pool build costs, in summary (note dimensions of pools do vary):
- Marc advised a complete cost of 25k euro (incl excavation)
- fudgieoto advised 19k euro (incl excavation, paint finish).

The quote I have received is 25k excavation and build + 14k pool itself.
Note IVA and geometras fees on top.

Land is quite flat so no complications there.
Looks like I need to get another quote and/or geometra.

Regards

[QUOTE=Charles Phillips;97140]Geotherm has roughly explained electricity usage - but a pump for a 5x10 pool is unlikely to draw more than 750 watts, and they are always on a timer. All you are doing when you run a pool pump is circulating the water through the filter, (and perhaps distributing the chlorine), and it can happily do this stuff majorly at night.

Well Charles how on earth does on clean the pool properly at night? The pump needs to be on and one needs to see the dirt on the bottom of the pool in order to suck it up. Also the green "slime" that appears in the pool and along it's sides must be seen to be cleaned. Therefore the pump must be on in the morning at our house and as we are so fussy about having a clean sparkiling pool we do not use a robot. We have found that even friends with robots have to tackle the job with a bit of elbow grease once a week.

Also sorry Marc but our pool is 12 x 6 and it costs us more than the figures you suggest for electricty, (we are resident and have 11 kw) and for chemicals. OK I should actually work out the costs but you'll have to trust me.
Finally we needed a new pool winter cover this year and after a lot of searching found that it was cheaper to buy one online from a company in Romsey Hampshire and pay the delivery to Italy charge. Amazing but true.

[quote=Marc;97113]We just had an 8m x 5m (1.4 m deep) pool built for a client using the same technique. The cost was €25,000, including a 3m-wide terrace and all the pool equipment right down to the net.
This is in Umbria - by no means the cheapest place to procure building work.[/quote]

We are trying to get quotes for a pool of a 12m x 5m and are based outside Comunanza / Force, do you think the company would do work in this area and could we have the name.
Any other suggestions of companies would be greatfully appreciated.
Donald

[quote=jonstir;97183]...................Land is quite flat so no complications there......................[/quote]

Ah - but whats underneath the surface?

.

We are expecting to receive the first 'preventivo' for our proposed swimming pool (5m x15m rec.) next week. We live in Umbria so Marc's comments and costs will be extremely useful. I will let the forum know what we are quoted. Hope our estimate is close to Marcs.

John
I tried to PM you again with more info, but it says that you have exceeded your limit!

I think that the quote is exorbidant- don,t go organise it through a geometra, sort out all the components and then hire an architect or geopmetra to draw up the plans for a fixed fee and not a percentage.

For that size of pool you should be paying no more than €28000 for everything, including about €16k for the pool (including liner,skimmers pump, lights, roman stairs, coping tiles, fitted cover), €3200 IVA, €1000 geometra, €1000 excavation (digging and backfilling afterwards), €3000 labour, €2000 materials (cement & steels). You could reduce this if you went for a steel structure but I think it,s a false economy

You would need to add €5000 for pool surround (7 days x 2 builders x €200 (2800) plus 60m x €20 (1200) plus 60m x 20cm x readymix at €70m2 (840) plus nets and steels).

You could do the work yourself and save €5800- its hard but quite easy.
Buona fortuna

Thanks again Damiano - really useful info.
Just realised how to delete messages - learning all the time.

[quote=Charles Phillips;97140]Geotherm has roughly explained electricity usage - but a pump for a 5x10 pool is unlikely to draw more than 750 watts, and they are always on a timer. All you are doing when you run a pool pump is circulating the water through the filter, (and perhaps distributing the chlorine), and it can happily do this stuff majorly at night.

The consideration of 'how much' electricity you need to have available depends not only on what equipment you have, but how you manage your use. Remember also that (with a modern meter and an adequate supply line) you always have quite a lot more electricity than you have contracted for available for 'a short period'. In other words, if the well pump happens to be running for thrity seconds even when you are drawing your theoretical 'maximum' nothing will trip.[/quote]
Would be intersted in other opinions on the point about running the pump at night. We run our pump during the day and not at all at night - filtration (and in our case electrolosys cleaning of the salt pool water). I was told to run the pump during daylight hours and when the pool is in use. The computer control system advises me if it thinks the "recirculation" time is too low (so as it gets hotter I move the time from 8 to 14 hours a day).
On the point about power "triping" - our house side circuit breakers are the things that trip - we have hardly ever managed to trip the meter circuit breaker...

Does Charles have experience of owning a swimming pool in Italy? I have commented that we need to see our pool in daylight to clean it each day but it's not a salt system.

[quote=piedmont_phil;97318]Would be interested in other opinions on the point about running the pump at night.[/quote]

I'd say that the main point of running the pump during the day is to let the skimmers do their work clearing up dead bugs and leaves. I generally set pumps to work for 8 hours/day. About 4 hours in the early morning to give the water a thorough filtration, then 4 blocks of 1 hour throughout the day, avoiding times when people might be preparing meals, so that the oven and pump working together don't pop the circuit breakers out.

Yes, we have a pool, (not salt) and yes, the pump runs when it is being cleaned in daylight. Marc's routine sounds excellent - single bursts of an hour at a time - and answers the load distribution issue. Running the pump mostly at night seems to work for us: it doesn't need to run for long (in my opinion) for the skimming function, and I can't see any reasons why the filtration side of the equation would be affected by running at night.

But if as discussed in another thread about electricity prices, it may be cheaper to run the pool pump at night, should you wish to, but the day time electricity will cost more, if you opt for the "pay less at night tariff". Therefore can't see any advantage for us. (Resident with 10 kw).

Don't forget you also need a geologist to report on the land, which is usually organised by the geometra, we know someone who went against advice and had huge repairs to the pool after a bad winter due to its placement and lack of drainage.

The best pool we were invited to all summer is an Eco-Pool. Excavation, lining, and pebbles set with glue on top. It is a pond/lake for building regulations - so no permission needed, but with lights and filtration it felt just like a pool! Of course the sides slope, but it was a real delight.
Please, please, please be very aware of the ease with which a geometra/architect can rip off the unwary.
By law they are responsible for the final work. There are regulated amounts they can charge as a % of the total project - even if they are not involved in the work! Planning permission is only the start. Refer to the "I think I need a lawyer" thread.
Most of the pools locally seem to have cost €20k plus €20 for the excavation/foundations, etc... perhaps absentee landlords pay more, or are less attentive?

Wow - some of the excavation charges are quite high - or perhaps not? We found a local guy who has a small JCB near us. He did 100 metres of trenching, laid various tubing and then back-filled it for under €150. He did some other bits and bobs as well, including taking us to the local builders' merchant to buy the appropriate tubes which then went on the back of his truck with the JCB.

As with anything like this, it really is worth asking around especially if you're on good terms with neighbours etc. Our new mate has since picked up a few tons of stones for wall-building and delivered them and said if we ever need any help with transporting or digging to give him a shout. Lovely guy - and a credit to the generous & helpful nature that's so often the norm over here. How different from the alternatives when you give a geometra carte-blanche!

[quote=timwills;97395]The best pool we were invited to all summer is an Eco-Pool. Excavation, lining, and pebbles set with glue on top. It is a pond/lake for building regulations - so no permission needed, but with lights and filtration it felt just like a pool! Of course the sides slope, but it was a real delight.
Please, please, please be very aware of the ease with which a geometra/architect can rip off the unwary.
By law they are responsible for the final work. There are regulated amounts they can charge as a % of the total project - even if they are not involved in the work! Planning permission is only the start. Refer to the "I think I need a lawyer" thread.
Most of the pools locally seem to have cost €20k plus €20 for the excavation/foundations, etc... perhaps absentee landlords pay more, or are less attentive?[/quote]

We swam in a pool with a dark liner and found it quite uninviting and I am pretty sure that these are off limits as far as Marche AUSL health and safety are concerned- so you,ld need to check if a pebbly eco pool was permitted for commercial lets.

Hi Skichi.
Normal excavation costs with a bobcat type digger are about E45 per hour, with the large ones then E65 ph. If he has only charged you 150 then it seems like a good deal, so keep using him!!!

I'm considering purchasing a property that includes an inground, concrete pool. The pool currently has a torn vinyl liner that would need to be replaced. It seems vinyl liners are used quite a bit in Italy even with concrete reinforced pools. Is this because it costs less than a plaster finish? The pool is in good shape structurally and I would prefer a pebble or plaster finish. Any advice greatly appreciated.

The advantge of a vinyl liner is that if the concrete structure of the pool moves, because of ground movements (sometimes associated with earthquakes), the pool does not leak. However, if you want to take a relatively small gamble, then plastering the pool and/or painting it with a specalist paint finish could save some money.

You can get very flashy liners (best to order them through a US source, though many are manufactured in France) which look fairly convincingly like pebbles or marble or mosaic tiles.

Just out of interest; when I was last in Spain 2 years ago, the going rate for an 8m x 4m pool with Roman steps, finished in beautiful mosaic ceramic tiles was €11,000. This was using concrete sprayed on wire mesh; a technique that might not work in Italy's dodgy geological environment, but even so, it makes you think eh?!