10624 notaio problems-advice welcome

Hello everyone-has anyone any thoughts on the following..yesterday a friend completed his purchase of an apartment in Italy after nearly 18months which included two previous meetings with the notaio to iron out succession problems,boundaries etc etc and eventually a compromesso..At the point of the Atto,the notaio made the "observation"that my friend had in his opinion paid a lot less than what he considered to be the real value of the property-(which was in fact the price agreed 18 months ago by the vendors.!) He said this might well cause future problems especially when the comune(?)came to estabish it was his prima casa (it is)and that he should take photos to demonstrate what a real state it was in therefore a record of it looking "less valuable"...he has the contract in his hand and has paid all the moneis etc connected with the sale but this has left him confused and nervous,and extremely angry with the rather conceited Notaio..shas

Category
Legal

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 10/09/2008 - 04:18

There may well be more to this story but I have read your actual post, several times and conclude that the Notaio is doing him a favour by advising taking photos of "before" as the property was a bargain, in the Notaio's opinion, and the purchaser may have to prove this in the future.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 10/09/2008 - 04:47

I agree - Italian relatives and fiscal offices [I]aren't[/I] the nicest people when it comes to (what they consider) 'supposed bargain basement sales'.

The fact that all was agreed and signed 'should' stop further actions by relatives. But it may not stop the Agenzia D'Entrate (Tax Office) from wanting to know more and possibly suspecting a tax avoidance scam by the vendors. So YES - take as many photo's as you can, and while their fresh in your mind make a list of all the people you dealt with over the 18 months on the matter of the purchase and price.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 10/09/2008 - 07:14

Well he actually has a letter with the agreed price accepted by the vendors from around 18 months ago-I also suspected that the Notaio might be thinking there was something "in nero" going on,but there wasnt/isnt! In what way can local tax offices snoop around someone who has got a bargain (according to this notaio)?.It wasnt that much of a bargain they,d been trying to sell the place for years it was pretty shabby and has a major problem with lead piping and a lack of a water supply at the moment...shas

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 10/09/2008 - 07:40

I agree that the notaio is trying to be helpful. I've seen atti with the following statement included (in the paragraph where the description of the property goes):

"cede e vende, in piena ed assoluta proprietà al signor XXX, l'immobile seguente posto in comune di YYY, in frazione ZZZ, in Via dei Matti n. 0, in pessime condizioni e da sistemare (the notaio underlined the last bit to fully drive the point home), etc etc.

The underlined bit states that the property is in terrible condition and needs renovating. This is not usually part of the atto but the notary, concerned that a relatively large property with low purchase price might seem suspicious to the tax authorities, even though no nero was involved, thought it prudent to make it part of the record.

Nothing to get alarmed about, just a concerned notaio wanting to help. I think the suggestion of having photos would help a great deal in the event of a check-up by the powers that be to prove the point, as in fact usually the atto does not contain any great detail about the actual condition of the property which obviously can have a huge effect on the market value.
PS how can they snoop? The authorities have parameters of actual market values of property, depending on location and condition, on a per square meter basis, and they are trying to bring declared values in line with these market values. If a sale is way below these estimated values (even if the sale is above the traditionally low cadastral value) they may decide to investigate. However if it was a sale between privati, noIVA involved and no capital gains issues and thereore no reason to involve nero, a check-up is unlikely in my opinion.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 10/10/2008 - 14:03

I suspect the notaio was trying to help. I was involved with an act this week along much the same lines and the notaio recommended a geometra to establish the venal value of a ruin. Nobody can stop the Entrate checking you out, especially if you are claiming prima casa. if they decide that the price you have paid doesnt square with the value of the property they will sting you for extra tax. Photos are an excellent idea, and you should thank the notaio for his advice.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon, 10/13/2008 - 05:06

I agree with the comments posted here - I had the same thing happen when I bought my house - Take the Notaio's advise and shake his hand - he is trying to help you avoid issues later on in life! :yes: