10640 working in italy!!!!!!

I am sorry for your experience, I have no problem trusting Italians, some of them are our good friends,but we did not come out here to work, regulations can be difficult, even just to live here and health care was initially hard to understand. But after returning to Italy after our first trip back to UK in nearly 3 yrs I am so pleaesd to be home. I felt embraced by our Itaian friends here in our village, and their support during what they knew was a difficut time for us has been wonderful.Where else would you be greeted with open arms,?and total acceptance of your problems?
A

i am a heating/gas engineer. i am hoping to move to italy next year. i have been trying for ages to find out what reg docs are needed. i already work for an italian company in the u.k but it seems no help.pm me for details

hi,thanks for your message,
im in the same line of work,and have been for 30 years,
but if i was you,i would think and look very hard into moving to italy,ive been there so meny times for holidays etc,and decided to go and live there in cremona,so i sold my house here in the uk,and moved out there 4 months ago,at a cost of 4000pounds to take all my belongings,etc,
as so meny people there told me to come as soon as possable,as they will help do all the paperwork needed,so i did,and no one did anything,i was on my own trying to sort it all out,
but was getting no-where fast,
so now im back living in the uk,(great)!!!!
so the only advise i could give you is think about it for a long time first,and try and find out as much as possable,the embassys etc,are not much help!!!
best wishes to you,
p newman

This is a trap that many fall into regarding the 'ease' of getting work here in Italy. There are (IMHO) three cardinal rules that should/must be followed [I]before [/I]selling up and moving 'lock, stock and barrel' over here in the search for a better life...

1. [B]DON'T[/B] believe what people over here tell you about the ease with which work can be found, many Italians can't even find work!!!
2. Do your homework - join forums, ask questions....[B]FIND OUT[/B] what is needed and prepare carefully [B]BEFORE[/B] you sell [I]anything[/I].
3. [B]Start learning the language - you're going to need it![/B]

Ignore these and the consequences, as you've discovered, are [I]very[/I] costly and [I]very[/I] painful - and even worse, they can be long term too!

Never mind "Location. Location. Location!" :nah:

With [I][U]this[/U][/I] it's "Research. Research. Research and then [B]MORE RESEARCH!"[/B]

This link may be useful: [URL="http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/en/citizens/index.html"][B]>YOUR EUROPE - INFO<[/B][/URL]

I agree to some extent with P Newmans comments, had the same experience. However I have work just not secure work. Here you have to be prepared to do whatever for short periods but inventive on how your going to earn the money you need, know your strengths and work with them. There is no security here.

It is upsetting to see negative experiences of moving over here. For anyone coming here it is unfair to apply, or expect, a higher standard from the Italians than you would expect at home. You should sort out your documentation before you move, get more than one estimate and pay for the professional advice you would normally pay for at home.
There are no magic short cuts.

Italy is of course a nice place to stay. There are plenty of welcoming towns where to live, that for a foreigner are surely better than a big town where even an Italian migrant could lose himself.

The right thing to do is PLANNING, PLANNING, PLANNING. Before moving and sell all is in your property, it would be better to know everything about job, lifestyle, health, environment of a country.
If I were you, I would move only after having the opportunity to work in a specific town for a specific firm. The other things (a house, health system etc.) will come after.

Internet may be a good link but also forums.
In particular, check out for job opportunities in the URP (Ufficio Relazioni con il Pubblico) website of the Italian Province where you wish to stay. There are plenty of offers in many sectors.

And remember, trust in yourself, not in others!
Good luck!
Cristiana

Hi
from our experience -
my husband landed a job here in Italy in 2006. The contract was drawn up by the company which my husband agreed to before we moved out here, so when we arrived we already had the contract signed etc.
You are allowed to register here if you are in the european union as long as you can show you have sufficient income to support yourself(not sure what the current amount is) or you have a contract of employment due to which you will be easily registered.
This is our second time doing this - the first being in 2000 when we did exactly the same thing. My husband registered with every agency in the u.k. and Italy that offered jobs here and had 2/3 job offers from about 500 applications-but it's not easy so you've got to keep going. Hope this helps, Ann-Marie

hi..
thanks for the mail,
but it seems up till 2007,it was very stright forward to do your reg,etc
but due to some eu law in 2007,now you cant work without a contract,as so to get your reg,
and the companys will not give you a contract without your reg!!!!

i went back and forth to the company and reg office in cremona,where i was living,getting no-where fast!!!! for 4 months...
so just had enough and came back home last week to the uk..
after spending 4000pounds moving everything out there,and now,having to spend another 4000pounds to move it all back..
so you can imagine my feelings about italy at the moment..
the reason why i went quickly out there,apart from having a ob to start,is that around 30 italian people who i know there,said,they will sort out a contract for me,so i can get my reg,as so i can start the job i had,
and it turned out,not one of them did anything,and did not help in anyway what so ever...
i was on my own trying to sort it out..
and i could not do a thing anyway what so ever..
and they where meant to be good friends of mine,
thats the last time i let people talk me into trusting them...

and as for italy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
im sure you know how my feelingsare about that country now..
hope you will have better luck then i did
p newman

[quote]By pnewman: "....so you can imagine my feelings about italy at the moment..
the reason why i went quickly out there,apart from having a ob to start,is that around 30 italian people who i know there,said,they will sort out a contract for me,so i can get my reg,as so i can start the job i had,
and it turned out,not one of them did anything,and did not help in anyway what so ever...
i was on my own trying to sort it out..
and i could not do a thing anyway what so ever..
and they where meant to be good friends of mine,
thats the last time i let people talk me into trusting them...

and as for italy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
im sure you know how my feelingsare about that country now..
hope you will have better luck then i did
p newman"[/quote]

I'm sorry but it seems to me that your understandable bitterness should be aimed at those people who hoodwinked you from the start and then left you well and truly in the 'proverbial'! [B]NOT aimed at Italy.[/B]

It has been difficult finding 'contract work' here for some time - it was certainly difficult well before 2007 and your 'so-called' friends [U]would have known this[/U] and should not have lied to you. Because that [I][U]is[/U][/I] what they did...

If you [I]had[/I] researched the situation on working here in Italy, before you took that costly plunge, then you would have realised that this was (even then) the situation here with Italian legislation. I rather suspect that these friends were hoping that you would arrive, be unable to return and stay. Then work for them 'in nero' - no paperwork for them to bother with, with less wages to pay you - [I][U]and no job security for you![/U][/I] (Like they would care....)

I understand that it has been a bitter (and expensive) pill to swallow, but the fault lies NOT with Italy, but with that group of 30 or so liars and cheats!

I have often found offers of "I'll sort it out for you, don't worry" are the ones to be wary of the most.

Italians can have a terrible habit of running their mouths at full steam sometimes - and unfortunately - all that often comes out, is hot air. :wideeyed:

I have to say, Jules, that I have had the same sort of experience in London. In fact, I've had many, many more people try to smother me with BS than have tried to here in Italy. So... I guess it's people that are at fault, really. Again...

Going back to the first post, I wonder what these 'reg docs' are. Are they a professional certification (like Corgi for example). Also, I'm assuming you are a UK (or EU) citizen.

I suppose it's all a bit late now, since you have returned to the UK, but it would be interesting to know just what it was that you couldn't get.

hi
sorry to say,yes im back in the uk,for good!!!!
im a british citizan,
the proplem i was having,was i had a job to start,but he could not let me start till i had my reg doc,s witch are only proof of where im living,etc,
and i could not get my reg doc,s till i had a contract for work,and the company would not give me a contract for work,til i had my reg doc,s!!!!
so i was running around between the both,like a headless chicken,trying to sort something out,and in the end,i could do nothing,so just had to come back to the uk,after a great expence taking everything i owned out there,and now having to arrange to bring it all back..
p newman

[quote=Nardini;99123]I have to say, Jules, that I have had the same sort of experience in London. In fact, I've had many, many more people try to smother me with BS than have tried to here in Italy. So... I guess it's people that are at fault, really. Again...[/quote]

Agree with you Nardini, but the point about using "Italians" as the example was that if you are English and in England - you can spot the BS a mile off - so you can deal with the situation yourself as you "know the ropes". If you are English and in Italy - well, we would all hope to be able to depend on a little help from our friends.

Perhaps the situation would be the same if Paul was an Italian and coming to the UK to work - maybe the difference being that the English may tell the Italian they were frightfully sorry, but that they couldn't help as they simply didn't understand what he wanted - then look at their watch and rush off quickly as it was almost time for tea. :laughs:

Paulnewman:

You had a contract? But then couldn't get a contract? Excuse me if I'm being a bit dim here, but it really doesn't make much sense, how you are presenting things presently.

What qualifications do you actually have that were proving to be a problem to have translated into the Italian equivalent? If your problem is that you are not qualified for the job you have applied for, surely this is your own problem? If your problem is elsewhere, should you not admit your real problem, rather than just blaming 30 unknown Italians for your present plight?

[quote=juliancoll;99130]Agree with you Nardini, but the point about using "Italians" as the example was that if you are English and in England - you can spot the BS a mile off - so you can deal with the situation yourself as you "know the ropes". If you are English and in Italy - well, we would all hope to be able to depend on a little help from our friends.

Perhaps the situation would be the same if Paul was an Italian and coming to the UK to work - maybe the difference being that the English may tell the Italian they were frightfully sorry, but that they couldn't help as they simply didn't understand what he wanted - then look at their watch and rush off quickly as it was almost time for tea. :laughs:[/quote]Ah, but he was saying that he came to Italy on the strength of the offer of work - even a contract - whilst he was in England. There is naivety and something else, sometimes, as I'm sure you will agree. Si o no? :winki:

if you read what i wrote,you will see that i said,i did not have a contract!!!
but the company would not give a contract to anybody,without having there reg docs,and the reg office,will not give reg dos,s to anybody with having a contract for work!!!!(READ FROM THE BEGINNING AGAIN,WHAT I WROTE)

Didn't you contact your own trade body about how your qualifications would be viewed, and the procedures you would need to follow? There have actually been recent moves in the EU to try and recognise equivalent qualifications but there is normally a fair bit of work to be done for this: did you investigate? I think perhaps the company you talked to was stringing you along, otherwise how would _anyone_ ever get qualified and get a job? Did you try any other companies?

The other thing is that reccy trips are always money well spent and it is often a good idea to keep links/property in the UK whilst you rent here and find the real information yourself.

Speaking as someone who waited 6 months before she had a kitchen sink and cooker connected you have some sympathy from me, and it is frustrating to be given the runaround, but perhaps some of the ideas in this thread might help your planning next time.

qualifications did not come into it,as ive got them coming out of my ears!!!
the company wanted me so much to start work for them,but could not as ive said in the past posts on here,no company will give you a contract of work,till you have got your reg docs,and you cant get them till you got a contract from the company your trying to work for,
i spoke to the police office,the rec office,the company,the high commission,eu office,and just about every tom,dick and harry,and they all came back with the same things,some eu law,pasted last year...

Yeah, we get it - it's known in Italian as the regola da novella dello stento, cioe' una storia che non finisce mai. Also known as "Catch 22".

I think probably paulnewman wasn't able to 'get residency' from the comune. To succeed with 'getting residency' the comune will ask to see evidence that you can support yourself (€5000 in a bank account suffices).
It doesn't have to be your money of course, just your account, alternatively evidence of income from the UK.
Then the requirement for health insurance will come up. This will disappear the moment a person has work (and is paying INPS), so a commercial health insurance policy with the facility to drop the cover after a short period without penalty would solve this one.
I agree it is ridiculous to have to jump through these hoops, but hardly unachievable. Probably not even necesary if your Italian is up to argumentative scratch.
It is difficult to get any non-professional person to help with this, because it will all be quite unknown to an ordinary Italian, but a commercialista should have been able to sort it out.

the money was not a proplem,to show how much i had,
it did not even get that far,as stated in post that i wrote,some of you people are not reading what i wrote,or just dont understand what has happened!!!!!!!

[quote=paulnewman;99147]qualifications did not come into it,as ive got them coming out of my ears!!![/quote]Riiiiiiiiiiiiight...

You have not explained at all what these 'reg docs' which you couldn't obtain were. I'm beginning to think this thread is a wind up.

[quote=Charles Phillips;99165] I'm beginning to think this thread is a wind up.[/quote]Grumpy old b that I may be, but I sense the sockpuppets are out again. Perhaps it is the worsening weather, eh? :winki:

I remember something similar happening to a teacher who the company I worked for had hired. We couldn't give her a contract until she had her permesso di soggiorno (this back in 2004 I think) and she couldn't get her permesso di sogg until she had a work contract. Is this what you mean P Newman? But the situation was resolvable - we wrote a note to the people at the permesso di sogg office saying she had a contract, and attached the contract to the note. She got the permesso, we completed the contract, then she could apply for residenza. She left after a few months, but that's another story!

[quote=English teacher;99168]I remember something similar happening to a teacher who the company I worked for had hired. We couldn't give her a contract until she had her permesso di soggiorno (this back in 2004 I think) and she couldn't get her permesso di sogg until she had a work contract. Is this what you mean P Newman? But the situation was resolvable - we wrote a note to the people at the permesso di sogg office saying she had a contract, and attached the contract to the note. She got the permesso, we completed the contract, then she could apply for residenza. She left after a few months, but that's another story![/quote]
But it isn't quite like that here any more. As an EU citizen, you no longer need a permesso di soggiorno. You need to get your tax code number (very easy and possible even from the UK) and, once you are living here, you need your residency. Apart from the codice fiscale, you don't actually need anything else to work, unless you are self-employed. Then you need to get your P.IVA (through your commercialista) and then your professional qualifications recognised by the chamber of trade. The rest is all just a wind-up, I'm afraid.

[quote=paulnewman;99157]the money was not a proplem,to show how much i had,
it did not even get that far,as stated in post that i wrote,some of you people are not reading what i wrote,or just dont understand what has happened!!!!!!![/quote]

I think you are not explaining yourself well and that is why people are not understanding.

Cab we go through this step by step?

1 Do you speak Italian?
2 Did the company make the job offer in writing?
3Where were you living for the 4 months you were in Italy, i.e. with friends, in rented accommodation?
4 Why did you pay to move all your goods before starting your job?
5 You say you ‘sold up’ before moving so I assume you had some money in your account?
6 Did you apply for residency?
7 Did you get a codice fiscali?
8 What exactly are the reg docs you keep mentioning?
9 Did you apply to any other companies?

Finally I don’t think it is fair to blame Italy for what appears to me to be your own fault.

What I've gleaned, so far, is that "paulnewman" is a British plumber, self-employed for the past 30 years. He fancied moving to Italy because some "mates" told him Italy was a good place to live and work and he could get a job, "no problem, mate".

He sold up/packed up and moved everything to Italy on the word of his "mates".

He tried to get a job, but was told that he needed his "reg docs" - which, presumably means his UK qualifications for the job - CORGI certificate, etc. No one seems to have told him that he must get his qualifications accepted in Italy as recognised qualifications, however.

He wandered off to the municipio to get his residency, without any further ado - who wouldn't recognise his request without a work contract, or proof of having the minimum cash requirement in the bank.

He misunderstood all this, proceeded to get angry and then blamed the "b****y" Italians for everything, followed by the "b****y" EU. The fact that he couldn't get a job as a heating engineer in England without any qualifications doesn't seem to have entered his particular equation.

There is not much to say to help him, really, in my opinion - especially as he is now back home in England, doubtless talking to even more "mates" down the pub.

If anyone reading this is thinking of coming to work or live in Italy, I would say that you [U][B]MUST[/B][/U] take it seriously and ask people - professional people - for advice [U][B]BEFORE[/B][/U] committing yourself to what may well be just a beer-inspired fantasy.

OK, basta!

the reg docs,as ive already said,in some post on here,are proof of address where you live,who you are,etc,you need them from the local office,where you are living,but to get them,you need a contract of work,from who-ever you are going to work for,and the companys now,will not give you a contract,untill you give them all your reg doc,s,now do you understand what im saying happened???????????????????????????????????

[quote=paulnewman;99173]the reg docs,as ive already said,in some post on here,are proof of address where you live,who you are,etc,you need them from the local office,where you are living,but to get them,you need a contract of work,from who-ever you are going to work for,and the companys now,will not give you a contract,untill you give them all your reg doc,s,now do you understand what im saying happened???????????????????????????????????[/quote]Well, paulnewman, you have either been badly mislead - or you are badly misleading.

no,this was not the cast,you have not read what i put on here!!!!!
try and read it all first,if you can understand it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
instead of writing a load of blar-blar..
ive got everything i needed before i went,citb-corgi-the list is endless,
it was the fact of some law,passed by the eu in 2007,that has made it very hard now,for anybody to move to italy to live and work.try and read all the things ive wrote on here

[quote=Nardini;99174]Well, paulnewman, you have either been badly mislead - or you are badly misleading.[/quote]
its was none of them,its the new law out there,from the eu,passed in 2007,and no-one bloody knows about it..till now

[quote=paulnewman;99175]no,this was not the cast,you have not read what i put on here!!!!!
try and read it all first,if you can understand it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
instead of writing a load of blar-blar...try and read all the things ive wrote on here[/quote]Yes. Hard though it has been, I have read everything you have written here. The fact remains that you have been mislead and are now, for some reason, trying to mislead others with your assertions. You are, putting it simply, wrong.

You are talking nonsense - is that "blar-blar-free" enough for you? The document you are trying to illustrate simply does not exist here in Italy.

Did you do any research at all before coming here? The very least you might have done was to look at the DTI websites - and the British Embassy one? Goodness me man!

[quote=paulnewman;99176]its was none of them,its the new law out there,from the eu,passed in 2007,and no-one bloody knows about it..till now[/quote]GROAN...

I bet you don't like the funny money, either...

[quote=paulnewman;99173]the reg docs,as ive already said,in some post on here,are proof of address where you live,who you are,etc,you need them from the local office,where you are living,but to get them,you need a contract of work,from who-ever you are going to work for,and the companys now,will not give you a contract,untill you give them all your reg doc,s,now do you understand what im saying happened???????????????????????????????????[/quote]

This is absolutely NOT TRUE.

In order to gain residency you need to prove you can support yourself, so either proof of income or a certain amount in a bank account will do. If you have either then you do not need a contract.

Perhaps Italy has had a lucky escape in this instance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You must mean your 'Residency' document that you do indeed get from the local council (Comune) offices. But to get that you would have needed to get your Carta di Soggiorno (residence [I]permit[/I]) or (as it takes so long to get), [U]the receipt for your application for that [B]is[/B] acceptable[/U].

If you had applied for the Carta di Soggiorno and provided all the documentation required for that, and had to hand your receipt for that application, your Codice Fiscale [U]and[/U] an address where you were living, then they would have issued a Residency Certificate following a confirmation visit by the local vigile. This ensures that people who are of working age are able to work while awaiting the long drawn out issue of their Carta di Soggiorno.

It would seem that whoever was helping you navigate all this legislation wasn't much help at all! In addition, your own apparent lack of research didn't help either did it?

This post was altered by a moderator. I do not wish that the altered post be attributed to me as it was not what I posted.

the only thing i can say is try and phone the registration and legelzation in cremona,they will tell you what ive been talking about on here,as no-one seems to understand,or is it just a case of some of you have lived in italy that long,you have become as ignorant as the italians!!!!!!!

[quote=Carole B;99180]If you had applied for the Carta di Soggiorno[/quote]Sorry Carole B, but the requirement for EU nationals to have a permesso or carta di soggiorno ceased a couple of years ago - see the current requirement on the [URL="http://ukinitaly.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/living-in-italy/res-entry-reqs-for-italy"]British Embassy site[/URL] for clarification.
Otherwise you are completely correct, of course - as is Nielo in the last post. I suspect the answer may not be forthcoming though. At least, not in the format hoped for... and indeed, it wasn't...

ETA. paulnewman? I wish you wouldn't take the name of such a good actor in vain so close to his death...

[quote=paulnewman;99183]the only thing i can say is try and phone the registration and legelzation in cremona,they will tell you what ive been talking about on here,as no-one seems to understand,or is it just a case of some of you have lived in italy that long,you have become as ignorant as the italians!!!!!!![/quote]

The Italians were clever enough to spot you so I wouldn't call them ignorant.:laughs:

Nice wind up:laughs:

Permesso di soggiorno: from 1 January 2007 the permesso di soggiorno no longer applies to European Union nationals living in Italy. However British (and European) nationals must take out a Permesso di soggiorno: from 1 January 2007 the permesso di soggiorno no longer applies to European Union nationals living in Italy. However British (and European) nationals must take out a residence certificate at the Anagrafe within three months, by providing some proof of employment or financial resources, which can be in the form of bank statements, tax returns or a contract (more details in Italian on Carta di Soggiorno for Eu nationals). at the Anagrafe within three months, by providing some proof of employment or financial resources, which can be in the form of bank statements, tax returns or a contract (more details in Italian on Carta di Soggiorno for Eu nationals).this was the proplem,you cant have this without a contract from the work,you want to do,and no-one will give you a contract without giving them Permesso di soggiorno: from 1 January 2007 the permesso di soggiorno no longer applies to European Union nationals living in Italy. However British (and European) nationals must take out a residence certificate at the Anagrafe within three months, by providing some proof of employment or financial resources, which can be in the form of bank statements, tax returns or a contract( Carta di Soggiorno for Eu nationals).bank statement,tax returns do not count..

Nicely typed as well, pn...

i see there are some comdians here!!!!!

[quote=Nardini;99184]Sorry Carole B, but the requirement for EU nationals to have a permesso or carta di soggiorno ceased a couple of years ago - see the current requirement on the [URL="http://ukinitaly.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/living-in-italy/res-entry-reqs-for-italy"]British Embassy site[/URL] for clarification.
Otherwise you are completely correct, of course - as is Nielo in the last post. I suspect the answer may not be forthcoming though. At least, not in the format hoped for... and indeed, it wasn't...

ETA. paulnewman? I wish you wouldn't take the name of such a good actor in vain so close to his death...[/quote]

:reallyembarrassed: You're quite right.... my apologies! I must have had a C.R.A.F.T. moment - sorry! :rollingeyes:

This made me smile, thinking of real life (!) for a moment...

[quote=ANSA](ANSA) - Rome, October 14 - Politicians can call opponents senile in the heat of debate, Italy's highest court ruled Tuesday.

''The language of political polemic can take on more pungent and incisive tones than those commonly used in private life,'' the Cassation Court said.

The court acquitted the mayor of a small town near La Spezia who had been ordered by a lower court to pay damages to a councillor he called 'rimbambito' (''senile, doddering or gaga'') in 1999.

The epithet was used at the end of a heated council debate on adopting a common stance on the Kosovo war.

After a lengthy session the mayor managed to muster a united front only for the councillor to come up with a last-minute motion of his own.

According to the Cassation Court, this was ''provocative'' and justified the mayor's outburst.[/quote]

[quote]By pn: ".... However British (and European) nationals must take out a residence certificate at the Anagrafe within three months, by providing some proof of employment [SIZE="4"][B]OR [/B][/SIZE]financial resources, which can be in the form of bank statements, tax returns [SIZE="4"][B]OR[/B][/SIZE] a contract( Carta di Soggiorno for Eu nationals).bank statement,tax returns do not count..[/quote]

The opertive word here is [SIZE="4"][B]OR[/B][/SIZE], (not [SIZE="4"][B]AND[/B][/SIZE])!!!!

But you [I]had[/I] the finances to support yourself until you went back, with your Residency Certificate, to your prospective employer for his promised contract... the contract that would have broken that vicious circle you found yourself in!

(My apologies for the out of date piece of information I gave on the PdS and CdS...)

It doesn't make me smile, at all.

[quote=Nielo;99170]I think you are not explaining yourself well and that is why people are not understanding.

Cab we go through this step by step?

1 Do you speak Italian?
2 Did the company make the job offer in writing?
3Where were you living for the 4 months you were in Italy, i.e. with friends, in rented accommodation?
4 Why did you pay to move all your goods before starting your job?
5 You say you ‘sold up’ before moving so I assume you had some money in your account?
6 Did you apply for residency?
7 Did you get a codice fiscali?
8 What exactly are the reg docs you keep mentioning?
9 Did you apply to any other companies?

Finally I don’t think it is fair to blame Italy for what appears to me to be your own fault.[/quote]

{MODERATED} may I ask you to read and answers the questions put to you by Nielo please.